Ideas for next years all time list

[ted2019]

Maybe a top 40 defensive forward list ?
Maybe do a top 100 to 200 player list?

Click to read more...

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Hints had been made about a "Top Teams of All-Time" effort- and I guess it's up to The Community to see how much appetite for that one exists. I could take or leave that one.

My first thought is 1st/2nd (or 1st/2nd/3rd) All-Time All-Stars, per position, by franchise (or City).

 

[Canadiens1958]

Top 40 Minor Pro /Senior Amateur list.

 

[seventieslord]

Retroactive Allstar teams for each season before 1931? (Not just NHL, but for all of hockey)

 

[bobholly39]

Best peak (obviously would have to qualify/quantify peak)

 

[wetcoast]

Maybe a top 40 defensive forward list ?
Maybe do a top 100 to 200 player list?

This would be my preference but seeing how the last project fizzled out at the end is there the desire to do this?

Or did the ATD starting up divert attention away from the top 100 project?

Hard to say?

 

[bobholly39]

This would be my preference but seeing how the last project fizzled out at the end is there the desire to do this?

Or did the ATD starting up divert attention away from the top 100 project?

Hard to say?

I think the interest/participation level would be lesser on a list from 100 to 200 than it was from 1 to 100, you are correct.

I know "the top 40 team" has been discussed before - i'm still not sure i understand how that would work. Let's take the Oilers dynasty for example. Do we rank each of their 84, 85, 87, and 88 seasons separately, or rank once overall for "core". And if we rank each season separately - how do we differentiate between regular season success vs playoff success (ex 2012 LA Kings, super dominating cup run but only 8th seed, vs Tampa 2019, one of best regular seasons ever but arguably worst choke job in history).

If we rank once for core it'll be a nightmare to qualify what's a core and where the overalap is. And if we don't - the list will be full of mostly dynasty teams, and could be somewhat boring/repetitive.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Top X individual seasons
Top X teams

Part of the challenge of a top-100 is you're trying to coordinate dozens of people in intensive research over a long period of time with no real accountability or quality control. That's just... very very very hard to do successfully. Even the positional lists fizzled toward the end, and those were only half as long. I'd suggest keeping novelty projects short (top 20) as there's not likely to be enough sustained appetite for a deep dive.

I'd also suggest not running the ATD at the same time as these things, as that creates an unrealistic workload for a small number of people and probably hurts both projects in the end.

 

[tony d]

I'd be all for a top 10-50 players list for every NHL team. Top 50 for original 6, top 30 for the expansion teams of 1967, top 20 for the teams added between 1967 and 1979, top 10 for the other teams.

 

[C4R105]

Top 10 for each O6 team

 

[ted2019]

I'd be all for a top 10-50 players list for every NHL team. Top 50 for original 6, top 30 for the expansion teams of 1967, top 20 for the teams added between 1967 and 1979, top 10 for the other teams.

I like this better then my ideas.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No thanks on "defensive" stuff, that's a lot of video work and I don't think we have the horses to do anything meaningful there, with all due respect.

Re: Top players per team. I did a little all-time draft type thing with the Penguins (only their time in Pittsburgh accounted for) years ago...

30 is tougher than you think...

Yeah, it's a hot start...
Lemieux, Crosby, Jagr, Malkin...

Then you're at like 14, and you're going, "ok, Rick Kehoe, Syl Apps Jr., or Alexei Kovalev?"

At 30, you're starting to consider Jordan Staal, Greg Malone, and Darius Kasparaitis.

It gets rough quick...

Not saying I wouldn't be into it...but 30 isn't the shallow end for a lot of teams, I'll tell ya that much...

 

[Nick Hansen]

Top 30 playmakers.

 

[kruezer]

I rather do something very different I think. Learn more about players that are discussed less. I’d be into seventies idea about pre-31 all star teams or c1958’s idea of minor pro/amateur, or a top X women’s hockey players of all time.

 

[Orange Dragon]

How about TOP x by country? You could probably skip Canada as their TOP x is already freshly established in the last project. Or the retroactive all star teams sounds interesting.

 

[Theokritos]

As suggested before, we could go through NHL history year by year and do a Best Players of the Season voting.

Required: Plenty of research.
Not required: Preliminary lists. All NHL players from the season in question are eligible. And everyone here who is interested in the subject can submit a ballot.

 

[ted2019]

I also like the idea of the top 30 players on each squad

 

[MXD]

Retroactive Allstar teams for each season before 1931? (Not just NHL, but for all of hockey)

Could be very, very interesting.

Best peak (obviously would have to qualify/quantify peak)

The safe pick, despite the possibility that everyone works under his own "criteria".

Top X individual seasons
Top X teams

Part of the challenge of a top-100 is you're trying to coordinate dozens of people in intensive research over a long period of time with no real accountability or quality control. That's just... very very very hard to do successfully. Even the positional lists fizzled toward the end, and those were only half as long. I'd suggest keeping novelty projects short (top 20) as there's not likely to be enough sustained appetite for a deep dive.

I'd also suggest not running the ATD at the same time as these things, as that creates an unrealistic workload for a small number of people and probably hurts both projects in the end.

Defines "peak" (but are playoffs included?).
Oh, of course, not at the same time as the ATD.

Top 10 for each O6 team

If only because it would put a stop to all that stupid calling out on the so called biases, I could REALLY, REALLY get behind this one.

 

[bobholly39]

I also like the idea of the top 30 players on each squad

This sounds really good but i agree with the idea that 30 is a lot. We just did 100 players and it took forever

30x ~20 teams is 600 players.

Maybe more like top 10 per team. Maybe top 15 for some teams

Also is it only time spent on the team? Or drafted by team?

 

[VanIslander]

How about an all-time ranking of teams (defined by year)?

Edmonton Oilers 1983-84
vs.
Toronto Maple Leafs 1950-51

We could...

OPTION 1: Rank Stanley Cup champions

OR

OPTION 2: Rank the best non-Stanley Cup winners (include non-NHL teams, certainly the Soviet touring Red Army)

OR

OPTION 3: A combination of the two (some finals squads were better than some championship teams).

We could do an initial list ranking then put the top 16 into a tournament bracket head to head analysis OR delay the initial ranking and have each participant submit reasons/an argument for a team and then vote on a ranking thereafter.

THE ALL-TIME BEST TEAMS (not franchises) OF HOCKEY HISTORY.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

How about an all-time ranking of teams (defined by year)?

Edmonton Oilers 1983-84
vs.
Toronto Maple Leafs 1950-51

We could...

OPTION 1: Rank Stanley Cup champions

OR

OPTION 2: Rank the best non-Stanley Cup winners (include non-NHL teams, certainly the Soviet touring Red Army)

OR

OPTION 3: A combination of the two (some finals squads were better than some championship teams).

We could do an initial list ranking then put the top 16 into a tournament bracket head to head analysis OR delay the initial ranking and have each participant submit reasons/an argument for a team and then vote on a ranking thereafter.

THE ALL-TIME BEST TEAMS (not franchises) OF HOCKEY HISTORY.

I love this idea. I think this would be a funner way to do the ranking of greatest teams (which has been discussed many times over the past 10+ years, but has never actually been done). I think the key issues would be:

How do we decide how many teams get into the tournament? (Maybe if we're doing a 32 team tournament, everyone submits a list of 1632 teams, and we pick the results from the aggregate list)?

Do we limit how many "entries" a franchise gets (over a period of time)? For example, if we're doing the top 32 teams of all-time, it's not impossible for some teams to have two or three entries in a span of a few years - for example each of the 1976, 1977 and 1978 teams probably has a valid argument to be on this list. Do we pre-select a "representative" for each team (which in this case would probably be the 1977 team)? Or do define it more broadly (ie "1976-1979 Canadiens") - but that introduces complexity due to changes in the roster.

How many teams should be involved? I'll throw out 32 as a possibility, which should capture a good span of NHL/hockey history, especially if we're limiting it to one entry per dynasty. That would give us 30 match-ups - two match-ups per week (on average) means this would take 15 weeks, or a bit over three months. Ambitious, but would interest start to fade out?

What rules/equipment/etc would be used? Maybe it varies based on home vs road games (home team gets the benefit of having the rules/equipment/etc of their era)? That would add a really interesting perspective to the discussion, I think.

What team gets home ice advantage? Simply pick the team with the higher regular season points percentage in a given match-up? (Some adjustment would be needed for teams from the 21st century due to the OT loss point).

 

[ResilientBeast]

Retroactive Allstar teams for each season before 1931? (Not just NHL, but for all of hockey)

Working on the positional project on the ATD board, if I can figure out a way to take game summaries en mass from my school's library and stash them in a drive without getting in trouble we will make this happen.

 

[ted2019]

Working on the positional project on the ATD board, if I can figure out a way to take game summaries en mass from my school's library and stash them in a drive without getting in trouble we will make this happen.

I haven't been in the ATD section for a while. What is the positional project?

 

[ResilientBeast]

I haven't been in the ATD section for a while. What is the positional project?

I'm going year by year and getting positions listed in newspapers for each game/team pre-consolidation

 

[ted2019]

I'm going year by year and getting positions listed in newspapers for each game/team pre-consolidation

I might be able to help you with this. I have to check my computer tomorrow to let you know for sure either way.