IceCaps to be moved to Thunder Bay in 2016 or 2017?

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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the point he is missing is that,the ticket was not free,someone paid for it a company etc,it is not like the box office are handing the tickets out,those freebees are paid for and the fact they don't go that's their loss,the Icecaps and worried about that,they could play infront of 5 fans,but 6287 seats are sold

Also Frankie same thing for Leafs and Fog Devils freebees all over the city,but again the seats were bought,i sit next to empty seats but sth own them and no matter if they go its still paid
 

Frankie

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I disagree with you. I live in Winnipeg and am thrilled this city has NHL hockey again but really enjoyed watching players like Hodgson, Bieksa, Burrows, Mike Brown, and Kesler work their way up through the Moose and on to the NHL. There is something gratifying about seeing players toil and develop before they really make their mark at the big time. Seeing former NHLers like Keane and Helmer play out the string was entertaining as well. Don't get me wrong, I would have taken WHL any day of the week over the AHL as most Canadian cities likely would but AHL hockey was fast, gritty, and entertaining.
fair enough, I was a season ticket holder for 14 years of st. john's maple leafs hockey, and it was great to watch players go from the ahl to the nhl. but first and foremost it was about the team, not individual players. I had tickets because I wanted to watch the team win.

people who say they'll go watch ahl because they want to monitor the prospects and pretend to be scouts are ridiculous. might go to a game or two for that purpose, but that's all.

The Q is not an option.Danny Williams has gone on live during the AHL games and publicly stated. It's pro hockey or no hockey.Danny isn't interested in bringing a Q team here only for it to bleeeed money. Nobody wants to go watch a group of teenagers in a league that has zero/little value to their professional team. We have AAA here in NL for that fan base.
so major junior hockey is the same as aaa midget hockey. good to know. seems to me a lot of fans in big cities like Halifax and quebec city want to watch a group of teenagers on a regular basis.

Danny wants to make money but also Ice a competitive team.Which is exactly what he is doing now.
actually danny has nothing to do with the team on the ice. he has no say in the players on the roster or the coaching staff. he relies 100% on Winnipeg for that. he's helpless when it comes to the team on the ice.

Nobody in NL believes that Danny is going to get anything less then another AHL team, and we all can say there is a 90 percent chance he gets one. There is ZERO negative feedback coming from having an AHL team here.
seems to me nhl teams are not exactly lined up to move their farm team to st.john's. I don't know where you'd get your 90% figure. judging from the facts and opinions I've read, seem danny would have to get extremely lucky to get another ahl team here. there's simply not many options. so I'd say enjoy a dark mile one again.

As for you Frankie. Its fine and dandy if you can get free tickets.Power too you, go enjoy great hockey this season for free. Those "Company" seats you talk about happen in every single organization in the league and the NHL. So I don't really see the point of talking about that. To say there are "plenty" of free tickets is just not true. Yes if you have the connections sure you can hook onto a ticket or two. Can an y tom dick or harry come in and grab a free game? No, absolutely not.
anyone can get free tickets to the ice caps games. there's lot of them floating around for every game. most of the seats are filled by corporate people with not much else to do on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. not many diehard fans at all. danny sold the seats to the big corporations, filled his pockets, and told everyone this is good hockey.

the point he is missing is that,the ticket was not free,someone paid for it a company etc,it is not like the box office are handing the tickets out,those freebees are paid for and the fact they don't go that's their loss,the Icecaps and worried about that,they could play infront of 5 fans,but 6287 seats are sold

Also Frankie same thing for Leafs and Fog Devils freebees all over the city,but again the seats were bought,i sit next to empty seats but sth own them and no matter if they go its still paid
yes, I said that very thing. the seats are paid for. that's all danny cares about.
 
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trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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exact their paid for,and if I were in charge of the Icecaps id feel the same way,you pay your money and if you wanna not show up or give it away for free id not care either

As for people monitoring players like scouts,i agree that's a crock of crap,i follow the Icecaps and if a player gets called up I honestly do not care how he does,as im not a Winnipeg Jet fan,I don't attend the hockey to watch and see how a player does from ahl to nhl,Just like I never when major junior was here,i don't care once their not on my team which is St.John's.

The argument that the best CHL players don't play in the AHL is funny as it is true,cause its a small percentage that go straight to the NHL,the bigger majority of CHL players don't even make the AHL they end up in beer leagues and senior leagues,so while people argue the Crosbys never play AHL,a high percentage of Junior players anit good enough to play AHL hockey
 

Sports Enthusiast

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The current proposed arena is to have a capacity of 5700 although previous discussion was as high as 6500. Feasibility studies estimated average attendance for an AHL team in the city to average around 4600 per game.

I'm amazed at just how big they want these arenas to be ATLEAST anyways. But then again it seems like the AHL just keep moving in to bigger market after bigger market and it seems to coast more and more to operate. I'm just amazed at how many people in the country they are good at duping into watching a decent amount of guys who will go no higher than the AHL or guys who won't be in your city long and not give much care about your community. Also the idea of caring more about individual development in some cases over winning.
 

Rumblick

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My $.02....

I'm amazed at just how big they want these arenas to be ATLEAST anyways. But then again it seems like the AHL just keep moving in to bigger market after bigger market and it seems to coast more and more to operate.

Like Philly to Glens Falls, Houston to Des Moines, Peoria to Utica :D

I'm just amazed at how many people in the country they are good at duping into watching a decent amount of guys who will go no higher than the AHL
Curious - What's a "decent amount", given that over 80% of NHLers got their start in the AHL?

or guys who won't be in your city long and not give much care about your community.
Whether it be guys on a 1-year deal or longer, most AHL players are heavily active in the community. The most prominent example of this is the Yanick Dupre Man of the Year award, given by the AHL for community involvement, but it's usually team-wide. Hockey players are light years ahead of other sports in this regard.

Also the idea of caring more about individual development in some cases over winning.
Okay, I can't argue with this one. :D
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
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Originally Posted by SFTC Addict
I'm amazed at just how big they want these arenas to be ATLEAST anyways. But then again it seems like the AHL just keep moving in to bigger market after bigger market and it seems to coast more and more to operate.

Like Philly to Glens Falls, Houston to Des Moines, Peoria to Utica :D

I'm just amazed at how many people in the country they are good at duping into watching a decent amount of guys who will go no higher than the AHL
Curious - What's a "decent amount", given that over 80% of NHLers got their start in the AHL?

or guys who won't be in your city long and not give much care about your community.
Whether it be guys on a 1-year deal or longer, most AHL players are heavily active in the community. The most prominent example of this is the Yanick Dupre Man of the Year award, given by the AHL for community involvement, but it's usually team-wide. Hockey players are light years ahead of other sports in this regard.

Also the idea of caring more about individual development in some cases over winning.
Okay, I can't argue with this one. :D


My $.02....

You list three that went to smaller markets but what about the ones that went to larger ones? Saint John to Omaha, Worcester to Peoria, St. John's to Toronto, etc.

Where do you get the 80% number and that is also a bit misleading. Many NHLers spent a game or two in the A but really how many of the star players spent any time in the A? And you have twisted the statement. How many AHLers will actually have a decent career in the NHL, not just get called up for a few games or a season or two.? Not that many.
 

Rumblick

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You list three that went to smaller markets but what about the ones that went to larger ones? Saint John to Omaha, Worcester to Peoria, St. John's to Toronto, etc.

Where do you get the 80% number and that is also a bit misleading. Many NHLers spent a game or two in the A but really how many of the star players spent any time in the A? And you have twisted the statement. How many AHLers will actually have a decent career in the NHL, not just get called up for a few games or a season or two.? Not that many.

1) I used the most recent moves to illustrate the point.

2) Virtually every press release the AHL puts out has some little blurbs to remind you how important they are. Mostly around the ASG or playoffs, you'll see the percentages.

3) I didn't twist anything - I responded to him saying guys would go "no higher" than the AHL. Be it 1 game or 1,000, the NHL is a higher league.
 

Tommy Hawk

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1) I used the most recent moves to illustrate the point.

2) Virtually every press release the AHL puts out has some little blurbs to remind you how important they are. Mostly around the ASG or playoffs, you'll see the percentages.

3) I didn't twist anything - I responded to him saying guys would go "no higher" than the AHL. Be it 1 game or 1,000, the NHL is a higher league.

1 game wonders don't count and neither do under a season which is his point. Most of these guys never really go beyond the A
 

Rumblick

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1 game wonders don't count and neither do under a season which is his point. Most of these guys never really go beyond the A


I responded to SFTC's actual words, not to your apparent interpretations of them. Things are usually clearer that way.
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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To say Q is better the playoff numbers of attendance don't show it,Cape Breton,Charlottetown ,Moncton all average less then 3000 now Frankie could Junior Hockey survivive on thos numbers,Add Halifax too at 9000 can it survive answer is no it can never work cause were on a Island
 

Sports Enthusiast

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1) I used the most recent moves to illustrate the point.

2) Virtually every press release the AHL puts out has some little blurbs to remind you how important they are. Mostly around the ASG or playoffs, you'll see the percentages.

3) I didn't twist anything - I responded to him saying guys would go "no higher" than the AHL. Be it 1 game or 1,000, the NHL is a higher league.

Lol. The ECHL does the samething in their press releases. While I understand "the point" of doing this, its also skewed. Your big time stars rarely play in the minor leagues. The best players in the NHL didn't play in the AHL for even a game, Crosby, Ovechkin, tamkos...

Maybe my statement was a bit harsh in "no higher" but I think you got the vague idea in well they might get a cup of coffee....I mean part of the minors existing is to stash bodies for in case of need. Sometomes guys catch a break and make the most of it, true. But rare. You have guys who dominate this league like Giroux, Sterling, Haydar.....they saw some NHL time but they have mostly rotted away owning a league they are better than but that's just it. I'm not trying to slam a league but this isn't baseball where even Bruce Harper saw minor league time. Cant think of the last MLB guy to NEVER see a da in the minors.
 

offkilter

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Jan 18, 2014
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Lol. The ECHL does the samething in their press releases. While I understand "the point" of doing this, its also skewed. Your big time stars rarely play in the minor leagues. The best players in the NHL didn't play in the AHL for even a game, Crosby, Ovechkin, tamkos...

Maybe my statement was a bit harsh in "no higher" but I think you got the vague idea in well they might get a cup of coffee....I mean part of the minors existing is to stash bodies for in case of need. Sometomes guys catch a break and make the most of it, true. But rare. You have guys who dominate this league like Giroux, Sterling, Haydar.....they saw some NHL time but they have mostly rotted away owning a league they are better than but that's just it. I'm not trying to slam a league but this isn't baseball where even Bruce Harper saw minor league time. Cant think of the last MLB guy to NEVER see a da in the minors.

You should go to hockeydb.com then find your favorite NHL teams roster. When you click on each players name I think you'd be shocked at the amount of players that have spent at least 40+ games experience in the AHL. I know for a fact 2/3rds of San Jose is that way, and Boston is about half. That includes guys like Chara, Boychuk, Machand, Krecji, and Rask.
 

go comets

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Well the most expensive part of a hockey team is the travel. And being so far from the rest of the league just won't work. Also the call up issue as well. Back in the early 90s there were I think 3 teams out there. Moncton, cape Breton and st johns. I don't know why the qmjhl wouldn't work if all 3 cities had teams.
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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cause the majority of fans here in St.John's do not want QMJHL,infact the QMJHL do not want to come here,and took its first chance to leave

Everyone wants to think the Q is such as success in the Marritimes,but is it really,since the Fog Devils left,most markets who use to draw over 4000,have dropped in attendance.Cape Breton,Moncton,Saint John anit drawing massive crowds.St.John's could not survive drawing the crowds that those teams get on a regular basis

Just to point out every Atlantic Canadian team excluding Halifax (thou im not sure) had trouble in their first years in the Q,and if you put any of those teams in Newfoundland they all move or fold,only reason they barly stayed afloat was location,All teams had their growing pains and at the end the Q just failed,and will flop 5 times as bad,after a 2nd AHL team
 

sam2020

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Apr 1, 2014
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Newfy IceCapd

You might not like Major Junior and thats fine but its still a very good brand of hockey.
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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no one is really crapping on junior,it is a good brand of hockey,but to compare it to AHL to me is like comparing AHL to NHL just my opinion

and every argument for it in St.John's is bogus,you cant keep ahl players,you also don't keep Junior players they leave after 3 to 5 yrs,some AHL players are on teams longer then that as vets

Junior has a draft,big whoop its rigged and only money teams get the players

The best players never play in the AHL,true but how large a percentage is that,that go from junior to NHL,then compare it to the percentage of junior players,who cant make the AHL,i garentee that's larger,infact senior leagues here are full of former QMJHL players who never made it to the AHL

Junior just wont work in St.John's,like said it anit booming in any other Atlantic Candian market other then Halifax,and attendance numbers show a drop from the rest since the Q left here,and people will argue oh but they had bad teams,its a cycle.Its the issue St.John's cant have attendance drop juring those periods or they lose 500,000 bucks and be moving regardless

Icecaps management anit looking at the Q at worse they will bring in a ECHL team until they get the AHL back if ever,this city is probably one of the stronger markets in the AHL
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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oh and the Icecaps are moving 2015,with or without a building in Thunder Bay,they be playing out of Winnipeg till Thunder Bay builds a building that as of now has no funding
 

sam2020

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Apr 1, 2014
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no one is really crapping on junior,it is a good brand of hockey,but to compare it to AHL to me is like comparing AHL to NHL just my opinion

and every argument for it in St.John's is bogus,you cant keep ahl players,you also don't keep Junior players they leave after 3 to 5 yrs,some AHL players are on teams longer then that as vets

Junior has a draft,big whoop its rigged and only money teams get the players

The best players never play in the AHL,true but how large a percentage is that,that go from junior to NHL,then compare it to the percentage of junior players,who cant make the AHL,i garentee that's larger,infact senior leagues here are full of former QMJHL players who never made it to the AHL

Junior just wont work in St.John's,like said it anit booming in any other Atlantic Candian market other then Halifax,and attendance numbers show a drop from the rest since the Q left here,and people will argue oh but they had bad teams,its a cycle.Its the issue St.John's cant have attendance drop juring those periods or they lose 500,000 bucks and be moving regardless

Icecaps management anit looking at the Q at worse they will bring in a ECHL team until they get the AHL back if ever,this city is probably one of the stronger markets in the AHL

Keep in mind in many cases its not they can't make the Ahl but there not allowed then when there done there 4 or 5 years they go right to the Nhl for exzample the Ottawa 67s have had players the past few years that should have been in the Ahl but because of the rules they had no choice but to stay in the Ohl.
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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Im talking about junior players that after they finish junior either quit or go to senior leagues,not players drafted at 18 but not allowed in the AHL.Im just saying a higher percentage dont make AHL they as mentioned end up in CIS ECHL or senior hockey,now a far amount do make the AHL,but the percentage from CHL to NHL is small,and it def do not happen as much as it did in 80's and 90's,and Crosbys come around once every decade or so
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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source, that's news to the AHL Fanbases and the BOG.

Winnipeg has stated and said their moving the team after next season with or without Thunder Bay ready.St.John's is well aware the Jets will not stay here,and are exploring other opitions,Jets have stated staying here anit a opition
 

BigBadBread

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Dec 4, 2006
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Sports/2014-03-22/article-3658886/City-faces-tough-sell-in-AHL-quest/1

And a new NHL team needs a farm team. But there is a quandary to that, too. This scenario won’t likely play out for at least a couple of years, leaving Mile One sitting empty after the Jets leave town (and make no mistake, they’re gone next year, regardless if there’s a rink in Thunder Bay or not).

Not doubting you but I'm curious. Where does this team play if there is no building in TB to play?
 

trouty

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Oct 3, 2011
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from what I hear outta Winnipeg,it will be to Winnipeg until Thunder Bay is ready
 

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