Ice Dogs sanctioned for recruitment violations

[BadgerBruce]

Interesting ... in many respects, the information now publicly available is the result of questionable work by the Niagara franchise’s legal representatives.

The Ontario Superior Court’s April 26 ruling in favour of TSN’s motion to unseal the file comes with a salient observation from Justice Ramsay. In awarding costs to TSN (and ordering the Ice Dogs to pay), Justice Ramsay writes the following:

“it [the original case]was brought in to court by the Ice Dogs ... who unnecessarily revealed what had been confidential information . . . .The motion was, as I said at the time, frivolous. It could have been sought in any event with redacted materials.”
CanLII - 2019 ONSC 2629 (CanLII)

All I can say is wow, just wow. Surely the franchise’s legal representatives knew that an attempt to restrict public access to judicial proceedings (sealing of documents) must satisfy all elements of a multi-pronged legal test that is exceedingly difficult to meet. The public interest quite rightly prevails in nearly all cases.

But my God, according to Justice Ramsay, the Ice Dogs “attached the investigator’s report as an exhibit. Some attachments to the report consisted of written communications between parties and witnesses to the affair.” Who does this without redacting the documents? Honestly, I’m utterly floored.

 

[three dog night]

Here another article Court papers shed light on IceDogs’ legal battle looks like the Hams have denied a side deal

 

[BadgerBruce]

Here another article Court papers shed light on IceDogs’ legal battle looks like the Hams have denied a side deal

Not really. They deny that their son knew about the side deal with the father, but they don’t deny that a side deal exists.

Whole thing is problematic for them, since Ham is still in the league.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Here another article Court papers shed light on IceDogs’ legal battle looks like the Hams have denied a side deal

That's not at all what they said lol. They literally said they admitted to having a contract with the Ham family that they didn't submit to the league

"There was a paper trial for side deals admitted to by the IceDogs. In the case of Wilkie, it was a photo of him receiving the payment. In the case of Ham, it was contract addendum kept by the team but not filed with the league."

Not to mention Williamson had proof (a copy of the side deal w Ham)

 

[93LEAFS]

Does not sound like Wilkie now we probably will never know.

Well, it turned out to be Wilkie. Like I said the day the sanctions broke.

 

[HockeyPops]

Interesting ... in many respects, the information now publicly available is the result of questionable work by the Niagara franchise’s legal representatives.

The Ontario Superior Court’s April 26 ruling in favour of TSN’s motion to unseal the file comes with a salient observation from Justice Ramsay. In awarding costs to TSN (and ordering the Ice Dogs to pay), Justice Ramsay writes the following:

“it [the original case]was brought in to court by the Ice Dogs ... who unnecessarily revealed what had been confidential information . . . .The motion was, as I said at the time, frivolous. It could have been sought in any event with redacted materials.”
CanLII - 2019 ONSC 2629 (CanLII)

All I can say is wow, just wow. Surely the franchise’s legal representatives knew that an attempt to restrict public access to judicial proceedings (sealing of documents) must satisfy all elements of a multi-pronged legal test that is exceedingly difficult to meet. The public interest quite rightly prevails in nearly all cases.

But my God, according to Justice Ramsay, the Ice Dogs “attached the investigator’s report as an exhibit. Some attachments to the report consisted of written communications between parties and witnesses to the affair.” Who does this without redacting the documents? Honestly, I’m utterly floored.

Do we know with absolute certainty that the Ice Dogs did not want this information to get out? We do know that the League did not want the information to get out, but perhaps this was orchestrated by the Ice Dogs to get the story out, even though they were compelled by the League to keep quiet. Just a thought.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Do we know with absolute certainty that the Ice Dogs did not want this information to get out? We do know that the League did not want the information to get out, but perhaps this was orchestrated by the Ice Dogs to get the story out, even though they were compelled by the League to keep quiet. Just a thought.

If it were me, I would try to stay quiet and be thankful they lessened my punishment, rather than bring light to the fact that it was actually multiple players confirmed that I attempted to pay, even though the initial report was just the 1 player for $40,000.

But I guess assuming the Burke's would do things that make sense is too presumptive

 

[BadgerBruce]

If it were me, I would try to stay quiet and be thankful they lessened my punishment, rather than bring light to the fact that it was actually multiple players confirmed that I attempted to pay, even though the initial report was just the 1 player for $40,000.

But I guess assuming the Burke's would do things that make sense is too presumptive

Agreed. In essence, the club threw themselves under the bus by needlessly including all of this information in unredacted form.

The legal context is also important. The Ice Dogs wanted a judge to revoke the sanctions the league imposed because Standard Player Agreements and the League bylaws both state that the Commissioner of the League, David Branch, is supposed to serve as an arbitrator when SPA disagreements occur.

Branch refused to arbitrate because in his view there were no disputes between players and the club over the Standard Player Agreements. The problems were all over side deals that are not permitted by the league.

The Judge essentially said the same thing — arbitration before the league commissioner over side deals the league doesn’t even allow is a no-go.

Which leaves a lot of questions, one of which is “why would the Ice Dogs file extensive evidence of side deals to support their contention that the Commissioner should arbitrate, despite the fact that side deals aren’t part of SPAs and one of the players is no longer even in the league?”

Did they do all this to fight what eventually became a deeply reduced $125K (not $150K) fine that, ironically, was only reduced AFTER the Ice Dogs owned up to everything before the league?

The whole approach is bizarre. The team outed themselves for no discernible reason.

 

[three dog night]

Interesting OHL's Niagara IceDogs to pay $150,000 fine for violating recruitment rules – but major junior has bigger problems - TheHockeyNews

 

[Buttsy]

Not sure Three Dog on your teams fan site “Black “^*” whatever his name is really trying to sell the fact there is still no evidence and that this release of information is embarrassing for the OHL and Branch not so much for the Ice Dogs? Is this poster a family member to the owners I just can’t see how logically that conclusion is drawn? I think it’s very embarrassing for the whole ownership family, it’s a real mess.

Best case is they sell and you get a real GM and a real Coach what do you think? Nepotism rears it’s ugly head again in the OHL.

 

[Drop the Puck]

Not sure Three Dog on your teams fan site “Black “^*” whatever his name is really trying to sell the fact there is still no evidence and that this release of information is embarrassing for the OHL and Branch not so much for the Ice Dogs? Is this poster a family member to the owners I just can’t see how logically that conclusion is drawn? I think it’s very embarrassing for the whole ownership family, it’s a real mess.

Best case is they sell and you get a real GM and a real Coach what do you think? Nepotism rears it’s ugly head again in the OHL.

Belongs in the Norris Wing that poster does. Something about colours in their names. Perhaps they can share a room.
Full of Kool-Aid. He’s from Jonestown I believe.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Belongs in the Norris Wing that poster does. Something about colours in their names. Perhaps they can share a room.
Full of Kool-Aid. He’s from Jonestown I believe.

I don’t usually visit individual Team Fan Forums, but in this case I caved to curiosity and checked it out.

Oh. My. God. I got 2 sentences into his/her summation of the situation and fully expected to read, “No obstruction. No collusion. Total vindication.”

There’s no point parsing the Sean Hannity-like take the poster has. You cannot engage unreasonable people on a reasonable level.

What deeply troubles me, though, is the nearly complete commodification of the players. The poster on that other site creates a “Owners and Family Good, Teenage Boys Bad” dynamic that is flat out horrifying.

Owners of junior hockey teams year after year need to convince parents of 15-16 year old boys — minor children in grade 10! — that they will be protected at all costs and treated with nothing but their long-term best interests in mind. It’s not an overstatement to suggest that the entire league could collapse if owners and their management teams turn their own players into black hat wearing villains and cast themselves as white hat-wearing authority figures above reproach.

It’s odious, and what’s nearly as bad is the way the adults who came clean to investigators are shat upon for being “disgruntled former employees” or “disloyal” or motivated by some “axe to grind.” Only in the world of junior hockey would adults standing up and telling the truth in the service of teenage boys be viewed as “disloyal” instead of correct, proper and expected. When faced with the choice of “tell the truth to protect the interests of a boy or lie to protect the interests of an owner,” I for one am pleased to see that at least some people still have a functioning moral compass.

 

[three dog night]

It beginning to sound from what I have read from various sources s that the punishment was for the Hamm deal with his father . Since that is the the only documented evidence there seems to be no documentation on the Wilkie deal wish was for lot more money. That might explain the reduction of the penalty now time to move on,

 

[fishfan51]

Belongs in the Norris Wing that poster does. Something about colours in their names. Perhaps they can share a room.
Full of Kool-Aid. He’s from Jonestown I believe.

Hasn't the Norris wing been torn down?

 

[fishfan51]

It beginning to sound from what I have read from various sources s that the punishment was for the Hamm deal with his father . Since that is the the only documented evidence there seems to be no documentation on the Wilkie deal wish was for lot more money. That might explain the reduction of the penalty now time to move on,

Hogwash.

 

[Drop the Puck]

Hasn't the Norris wing been torn down?

Oh ff51, ALWAYS the sane iD’s fan.

Yes, you are correct, it has been torn down except the Historic Arch, that still remains.
Perhaps It is homeless and this is it’s cry for help? Being a retired school teacher it’s best days are behind it, sadly. We have plenty of programs that would be suitable, it could live a comfortable lifestyle.

Back to hockey?

13.5 - 15 million you say. How much did they purchase it for?
Suddenly the “bank of Burke” isn’t so dry after all.

 

[Drop the Puck]

It beginning to sound from what I have read from various sources s that the punishment was for the Hamm deal with his father . Since that is the the only documented evidence there seems to be no documentation on the Wilkie deal wish was for lot more money. That might explain the reduction of the penalty now time to move on,

Do mean, from what you drank 3dk?

 

[Drop the Puck]

This certainly doesn’t merit the conspiracy that’s It is stirring up.

Certainly not like JFK, Area 51, and the attack on the twin towers.

Honestly, the earth is not flat, and, humans built the pyramids.

Get over it already, you got caught cheating, off with heads. Sell the team bc the current owners have ruined their trust with the league and start your rebuild. Just keep those attendance number up, more $2 tickets to pre-school children. It’s working.

 

[OHL4Life]

It beginning to sound from what I have read from various sources s that the punishment was for the Hamm deal with his father . Since that is the the only documented evidence there seems to be no documentation on the Wilkie deal wish was for lot more money. That might explain the reduction of the penalty now time to move on,

'Lax O’Sullivan Lisus Gottlieb LLP lawyers Andrew Winton and Sapna Thakker interviewed 12 witnesses and reviewed a series of emails, player contracts and other documents before concluding the IceDogs had verbally agreed to a deal with Wilkie.'

Burke later said that during the five-minute meeting he only promised that Wilkie’s education package would be “inflation protected,” meaning if tuition costs increased between 2013 and the time Wilkie went to university after his junior career finished, the team would pay the full tuition amount.

“We do not find Bill’s evidence on this point to be credible,” the report says.


just because some random angry conspiricy theorist thinks there was no evidence against the ice dogs, doesnt make it so.

 

[OHL4Life]

just to remind everyone

'All current Niagara IceDogs players and hockey operations staff have no involvement in the sanctions assessed today by the Ontario Hockey League. An appeal will be filed. No further comment will be made.'
RELEASE | Statement regarding OHL Sanctions – Niagara IceDogs

'The document appeared to be signed by Mike Ham and Joey Burke and was included with Ham’s standard player agreement. It said that the IceDogs agree to pay Ham $2,000 for each year for the subsequent four years. Payment was to be made on the anniversary date of his contract signing.'
https://www.tsn.ca/ohl-investigatio...-secret-deals-with-multiple-players-1.1301433

why exactly would anyone believe anything they would say at this point?

 

[TuckerFan1]

Not sure Three Dog on your teams fan site “Black “^*” whatever his name is really trying to sell the fact there is still no evidence and that this release of information is embarrassing for the OHL and Branch not so much for the Ice Dogs? Is this poster a family member to the owners I just can’t see how logically that conclusion is drawn? I think it’s very embarrassing for the whole ownership family, it’s a real mess.

Best case is they sell and you get a real GM and a real Coach what do you think? Nepotism rears it’s ugly head again in the OHL.

That guy is also the one who has an unhealthy obsession with the London Knights. He keeps an updated list of all the NCAA bound kids who ended up choosing London. Better over on that forum than this one I guess. He’s safe from ridicule over there.

 

[Drop the Puck]

That guy is also the one who has an unhealthy obsession with the London Knights. He keeps an updated list of all the NCAA bound kids who ended up choosing London. Better over on that forum than this one I guess. He’s safe from ridicule over there.

“Unhealthy obsession”. Well said. It is “protected” over there, it has built quite a ‘nest’. Jonestown techniques. It would be a slaughter if it ever made an attempt to post over here.

Jokes, jokes,