I will always love the Leafs

egd27

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I think I am saying the opposite of what you are saying, or rather, I'm saying yeah, these highly skilled players, yes, PUT them in over their heads, put them in places and let them fail, put them in leadership roles and let them fail and then maybe they'll figure it out.

Going to have to agree to disagree on this I'm afraid.

I don't have a huge issue with failure as a learning opportunity, I do however, feel strongly that young players need to be insulated properly to understand how to respond to failure and not be expected to figure it out for themselves.
 
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Primary Assist

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Jul 7, 2010
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I will also always love the Leafs.

As a fan we have to hold the team accountable, and if the days get dark as they have in the past then it's OK to step back for a little bit and re-assess how much of my free time/mental sanity I'm willing to offer to this team.

But I will always love the Leafs.
 
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Erdinger

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Oct 6, 2011
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I will also always love the Leafs.

As a fan we have to hold the team accountable, and if the days get dark as they have in the past then it's OK to step back for a little bit and re-assess how much of my free time/mental sanity I'm willing to offer to this team.

But I will always love the Leafs.
I stopped living and dying by this team in the '80's. There have been some fun periods since but mostly I don't worry about making travel plans for April,May and June in fear of missing anything. That being said Saturday night was disgusting
 

Rogie

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Going to have to agree to disagree on this I'm afraid.

I don't have a huge issue with failure as a learning opportunity, I do however, feel strongly that young players need to be insulated properly to understand how to respond to failure and not be expected to figure it out for themselves.

I sure like going back and forth with you, you really are respectful, thank you so much!!!

So, you mention they need help in learning how to respond to failure. I guess that's where we differ. We all fail, everyday, in small things and in big things, and, then we respond. I think for these young men, the response after they fail, I guess, to me it kind of goes without saying, they have to do that on their own. In the same way, we have friends and family who need help but you can't help them until they're ready. I think RESPONDING to their failure is on them. Nothing wrong with a veteran around to offer words of advice, etc., but, they have to get it, and then, they have to DO IT. By do IT, I mean, they have to respond and the RESPONDING part is the same as the failure part, they have to do that on their own.

Sorry, for getting kind of philosophical here!
 

egd27

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I sure like going back and forth with you, you really are respectful, thank you so much!!!

So, you mention they need help in learning how to respond to failure. I guess that's where we differ. We all fail, everyday, in small things and in big things, and, then we respond. I think for these young men, the response after they fail, I guess, to me it kind of goes without saying, they have to do that on their own. In the same way, we have friends and family who need help but you can't help them until they're ready. I think RESPONDING to their failure is on them. Nothing wrong with a veteran around to offer words of advice, etc., but, they have to get it, and then, they have to DO IT. By do IT, I mean, they have to respond and the RESPONDING part is the same as the failure part, they have to do that on their own.

Sorry, for getting kind of philosophical here!

Sure, but there is a difference in failing individually and failing as part of a collective. Also bear in mind that these are extremely public failures.

It is very easy for negativity to creep into a group dynamic, and once it does, it is extremely difficult to get rid of. Without the guidance and support from more experienced and strong character players, coaches, and even family, those group failures can open the door to negativity. It only takes a couple of malcontents or weak characters to influence a larger group if it is not kept in check.

Now I do not profess to have any knowledge of the individual characters of the Leaf players, but I can see (for the most part) that the guys that were considered experienced, hard working players have been moved out by the GM in favor of more youth and inexperience.

Maybe they can learn on their own as you suggest, but IMO it will take longer, and unfortunately, the clock is already ticking due to the GM's inability to maximize term on his key stars.
 
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egd27

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This thread feels like it should have a resident Social Worker and Psychiatrist on hand at all times.

Mind you, most threads on this board feel that way, so just ignore me.

Poster 1: Man....they suck

Poster 2: No they don't

Feel better Joe? :D
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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But it hurts to hear those boos last night, don’t the perpetrators realize that this is a big reason players don’t want to come here? That it hurts our future? That the players tense up, grip their sticks tighter, that it’s counter productive. I get it, I’ve never been to a game but if you’re laying out $300 a seat to watch that, it’s tough. But please do it in private.

These players have it better than any other hockey players in the NHL.

  • They live in a world-class city.
  • Meeting the minimalist of expectations turns these players into legends in this town (blue and white disease)
  • Many of them got everything they wanted:
    • Contracts
    • Endorsements
    • Ice Time
    • Line mates
  • They play at a rink that is always full (18,000 people paying ridiculous prices just for the seats, not to mention the overpriced concessions)
  • In the playoffs, another 3000 people stand outside regardless of the weather, and still pay ridiculous prices for those same concessions.
Sorry, but if a few boos and frustrated fans make them "tense up", or "grip their sticks tighter", then they can f*** off and go play hockey somewhere else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Toronto is only a hard place to play, if you're soft as cheese.

If you want a win a cup, you don't want soft as cheese players anywhere near that roster.

As someone who is very fortunate to be able to attend several games a year, if I feel like booing, I'm going to boo. Let's be honest, half the time it's the only noise being made in that absolutely embarrassing library-esque excuse of a hockey arena.
 

GoBuds14

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Dec 15, 2015
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To me, the standard Leaf teams were the Gilmour/Clarke teams and the Sundin/Roberts/Tucker/Domi teams. They didn't win the cup, but man those were teams full of character and heart. This team doesn't give you that "will do whatever it takes" feeling and they are just not that likable at this point. I find myself only tuning into the last 10 minutes of a close game, which I never used to do
 
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Cobra777

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Jun 26, 2018
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I thought what Dave Poulin said on the HNIC broadcast before this game, it might have been a few games ago, I'm not sure, but, it resonated with me, and it's what I've been trying to say on here for a while.

Work ethic, and working hard, and effort, these qualities, they take time - Poulin mentioned how older veteran teams had many many more playoff series and LOSSES and experiences to learn from. I kind of agree with this.

I said it in a post a couple of weeks ago, you can THINK and truly BELIEVE that you are working hard, but, it's just not as easy as that. There's always another HARDER level to get to, and you get there by failing and learning from the failure.

I still don't think that these group of guys, our TEAM, are incapable of playing HARDER, I honestly think they can.

But, they have to learn how to do that and they'll learn it from failure.

I'd like to see the team stay pretty much as they are.

Just leave them to figure it out, and I think, they'll eventually learn how to play harder.

It's not easy to just play harder because it also requires, when you play harder, that you are playing smart, this is the hard part. Right now, they're in the phase of thinking about how to play smarter, but, they have to get to the 'play harder and play smarter together' phase, and that only comes from experience.

THE SKY IS STILL NOT FALLING
I'll go out hit, bite a puck in half and skate till I drop dead for 100,000 if 11 mill cant make you work hard you never will so pls enough with these excuses for these over entitled players
 

Rogie

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I'll go out hit, bite a puck in half and skate till I drop dead for 100,000 if 11 mill cant make you work hard you never will so pls enough with these excuses for these over entitled players

I hear you and don't disagree with anything you say.

I don't mean so much to make excuses. I think there are no excuses, they're play really seems inexcusable, and perhaps, simply, they are overpaid, entitled, lazy, and that's it. Their efforts at times are just too hard to believe imaginable, one game they look like they know how to work, the next game they don't. It's just.... yeah, no excuses, because it seems beyond any explanation.

So, I HOPE, (it could be foolish and naive by me, that's fair) that there's another explanation (and it's not so simple) PERHAPS, outworking other teams has to be learned and takes time and failures and doesn't happen as easily as I want to believe it should.
 
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Cobra777

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I hear you and don't disagree with anything you say.

I don't mean so much to make excuses. I think there are no excuses, they're play really seems inexcusable, and perhaps, simply, they are overpaid, entitled, lazy, and that's it. Their efforts at times are just too hard to believe imaginable, one game they look like they know how to work, the next game they don't. It's just.... yeah, no excuses, because it seems beyond any explanation.

So, I HOPE, (it could be foolish and naive by me, that's fair) that there's another explanation (and it's not so simple) PERHAPS, outworking other teams has to be learned and takes time and failures and doesn't happen as easily as I want to believe it should.
If they gave the effort like the 4-0 victory against Pitts but lost games still just for unknown intangibles I myself and think many would not be upset at all, I hope your right in that they will give it game in and out from now on but something just doesn't seem right with this team.
Seems to be if I had to guess a faction war in the dressing room
 
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Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
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They deserved more boos imho. These are multi-million dollar super athletes. And couldn't get past a 42 year old Zamboni driver who looks like a dude in line at Cinnabon.

I love my Leafs as much as the next guy but BOOOOOOOO. That was pathetic.
Let's call a spade a spade, the zamboni driver didnt beat us. We managed what 8 shots on him and except for the Hyman save they were all muffins right at him.

The real troubling matter was how it appeared that Carolina just went all D and seemed to easily nullify our offence.
 
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stuart5035

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Apr 9, 2017
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I hear you and don't disagree with anything you say.

I don't mean so much to make excuses. I think there are no excuses, they're play really seems inexcusable, and perhaps, simply, they are overpaid, entitled, lazy, and that's it. Their efforts at times are just too hard to believe imaginable, one game they look like they know how to work, the next game they don't. It's just.... yeah, no excuses, because it seems beyond any explanation.

So, I HOPE, (it could be foolish and naive by me, that's fair) that there's another explanation (and it's not so simple) PERHAPS, outworking other teams has to be learned and takes time and failures and doesn't happen as easily as I want to believe it should.
What if:

1-The players do care deeply, they want to be the best at their craft, like most human beings. They have pride in what they do.

2-They are trying the best they know how to, but they are “deer in the headlights”; that wonderful initial surge under Keefes new system petered out as opponents adjusted. Today they are confused that what worked no longer does. Not only are other teams defending well against a no longer vaunted offence, but that same once mighty puck possession game is leaking so badly that Anderson is reeling against rampaging opponent forwards exploiting a ragtag defensive scheme. Anderson is frustrated, exposed, already having a tough season, made worse now.

3-They try and adjust to opponents defensive adjustments, but the dump and chase alternative doesn’t work for their group of skilled non physical forwards. Offensive forays increasingly are “one off”, little sustained pressure. Opponents simply build a wall and are content to give them the periphery for their fancy passing.

4-They are young; they really don’t know what it takes to bear down consistently, or the price that the more seasoned opponents know has to be paid.

5-They have trouble with fast physical opponents (Carolina), they are not built to win battles for the puck.

They aren’t lazy, they didn’t lose their talent overnight-but they are confused, floundering. What worked for awhile is now chaos.
 

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