Proposal: I WANT TANEV!!!!! (TOR/VAN)

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THE Green Man

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Ok so Nucks and Leafs fans are generally in agreement:

1st+2nd and Bracco and we're good or what?
A hockey trade is going to be hard to do for Tanev. He plays a premium position and it's exactly that position that we would want. There aren't many teams with a decent, younger RHD that would want to swap with us. The other option would be to go for a center, but I'd rather stand put in that scenario. A 1 for 1 for a decent prospect is what we all want, but it happens rarely, and you can't blame the Leafs fans for not wanting to trade Liljegren, his value is decently high, higher than the 17OA at which the got him. That doesn't make him perfect, he is far from it. Not sure if he is a blue-chipper at this point, but he sure is doing great. There's a lot of sentimental attachment now.

The premise for a trade has been pretty much discussed to death. How about the same premise but still something that hasn't been put down properly:
1st 2018 (25) + Räsänen + conditional 2nd 2019

- Any top 4 D in this league should honestly command a first round pick. There are certain cases where I'd be skeptical, like in the case of Seabrook, due to contract issues or age. Tanev is 28, which is still decently young and Toronto would be getting him to play with Rielly on the first pairing. The price should be put accordingly.
- Vancouver very much needs that RHD prospect. Räsänen isn't the blue-chipper we'd want back, but he is a recent 2nd round pick and is still more than a decent prospect. I like having a guy with size on the back-end, and we really lack that in the prospect pool anyway. The loss of Räsänen isn't that big for the Leafs. They have Liljegren for the top pairing.
- The first rounder is the 25th, which is quite late. There are still a bunch of great prospects available, but the chance that pick develops to something like Tanev is low, so another pick would have to come with it. The condition will depend on the amount of games he plays. If Tanev plays all the games next season, it's a first (we all know this won't happen, but if it does then the Leafs win aye). If Tanev plays at least 70 games, due to injury (this isn't an issue, giving Liljegren 10 games in the NHL would probably do him a lot of good) then it's a second. If he plays between 41-70 games, due to injury, it's a third, and if he misses the season then it becomes a fourth round pick.

For those Canucks fans who are optimistic about Tanev - I mean come on, you can only have so many freak injuries and mump outbreaks in a row, he is going to catch a break sometime - the return would be in the ballpark of what we would want, which is a 1st + 2nd + prospect. For the Leafs fans who feel like Tanev will basically die next season, they pay for a top 4 D without giving up anything of high value, a low first, a low fourth and a prospect. It's a risk but I if it works out, then the Leafs get a great defenseman for lower than market value (1st+2nd+2nd). The Marlies are probably the best team in the AHL, and you've got enough RHD that could settle on the bottom pairing. It's not ideal, but you accommodate the missing games. I doubt it will be even close to 40 games missed next year. Playing with Rielly might even make up for it. I see about 15 missed games next year.
Swapping Bracco to Rasanen is fine by me. I would prefer a 2018 2nd but get that it's a tough sell for the Leafs to not pick until the 3rd round. So in sum: 2018 1st, Rasanen, and 2019 conditional 2nd- becomes a 2019 3rd if Tanev doesn't play in 70 games due to injury.

As for Kapanen, he is valued way more to Leafs fans that he is to us. As of right now we have our RW depth of Boeser, Petersson and Virtanen. Along with that, we have lots of bottom 6 players already. Kapanen reminds me of a hybrid between Hansen and Raymond- just not something that I would consider a core piece in a Tanev deal for.
 
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Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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So funny. We want your top d man and take anything you want except for the pieces that may some day actually play in the NHL. I am going to try that next time i go and buy a car. I would like to buy the 2014 mercedes that for anything I have in my pocket except for cash, credit card or check...but take your pick of the gum, spare key or lint. Go ahead and take anything. Oh and you can even have the prospect of the bottle cap that might be in my pocket tomorrow. Never change leaf fans.

And the shady used car salesman neglects to mention that the Mercedes sees the mechanic more often than it sees a gas station.
 

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly in my last post, and I apologize for that.

What I think the right value is, isn't relevant. I'm not making the deal. What you feel the value is, isn't relevant either... for the same reason. We are just two fans of the sport, chatting on a board. It's my guess at where value **might** be.

Vancouver management would make the deal, if they felt it was what best for them.

As far as a veteran UFA signing... you are right.. you can't replace the player.. .but you can replace the veteran leadership, and learning. We signed Hainsey for much the same reason... there are plenty of similar guys out there, that could help. Polak has been a good guy for us, consummate pro... UFA... not saying he's the right guy... but there are plenty of veterans that can bring along the other guys. As far as watchable, competitive team... I think a sophisticated fan base such as Vancouver, would surely understand and enjoy the process, if management just came out and said, this is what we are doing. Toronto fans have been fine with it.
 

Deadly Dogma

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Swapping Bracco to Rasanen is fine by me. I would prefer a 2018 2nd but get that it's a tough sell for the Leafs to not pick until the 3rd round. So in sum: 2018 1st, Rasanen, and 2019 conditional 2nd- becomes a 2019 3rd if Tanev doesn't play in 70 games due to injury.

As for Kapanen, he is valued way more to Leafs fans that he is to us. As of right now we have our RW depth of Boeser, Petersson and Virtanen. Along with that, we have lots of bottom 6 players already. Kapanen reminds me of a hybrid between Hansen and Raymond- just not something that I would consider a core piece in a Tanev deal for.
Rasnaen is looking solid but Holl is a better D man IMO, don't forget Aaltonen, Grundstrom, Rosen etc. If you want Rasanen as the guy added to the picks I am 100% cool with that.
 

brokenwolf88

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I don't want Tanev. At all. He's a decent player but his injuries are too much now.

Would you want Lupul from a couple years ago?
 

THE Green Man

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Rasnaen is looking solid but Holl is a better D man IMO, don't forget Aaltonen, Grundstrom, Rosen etc. If you want Rasanen as the guy added to the picks I am 100% cool with that.
Personally I like the aspect of Rasanen. Could be our Gudbrandson replacement in a few years with that size and also being a RHD. With the rumblings that Tryamkin is still open to coming back once he fulfills his KHL contract, eventually our top 4:
Tryamkin-Dobson/Bouchard
Juolevi-Rasanen
 

Cotton

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May 13, 2013
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Swapping Bracco to Rasanen is fine by me. I would prefer a 2018 2nd but get that it's a tough sell for the Leafs to not pick until the 3rd round. So in sum: 2018 1st, Rasanen, and 2019 conditional 2nd- becomes a 2019 3rd if Tanev doesn't play in 70 games due to injury.

As for Kapanen, he is valued way more to Leafs fans that he is to us. As of right now we have our RW depth of Boeser, Petersson and Virtanen. Along with that, we have lots of bottom 6 players already. Kapanen reminds me of a hybrid between Hansen and Raymond- just not something that I would consider a core piece in a Tanev deal for.

Yeah, no to Rasanen, not going to happen.
 

Walt22

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Mar 19, 2018
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And the shady used car salesman neglects to mention that the Mercedes sees the mechanic more often than it sees a gas station.
But it is still better than any of the other vehicles that you currently own....and that piece of gum and lint are still of no value to the dealer. Tell me what person selling a car would say....okay take it away for free. He would quickly tell you to get back to your shopping cart and keep wheeling down the road. If youbdont believe me go try it. Pick any lemon and offer them something they don't need.
 

THE Green Man

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Dec 27, 2013
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Yeah, no to Rasanen, not going to happen.
You're looking at acquiring the perfect partner for Reilly. It's going to sting to pick up a player like that in a trade. FYI multiple leafs fans over the past few months have agreed to this deal so it's not too outlandish.
 

rod

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Apr 19, 2018
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To TOR
Chris Tanev
Cole Cassels

To VAN

2018 1st
Kasperi Kapanen
Dakota Joshua

Tanev will help put TOR's D into the realm of respectability.

Rielly Tanev
Gardiner Hainsey
Dermott Zaitsev
Borgman (7th D)

My question would be why do you want an oft injured mediocre defencemen?
 
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Cquant

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May 14, 2015
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I don't want Tanev. At all. He's a decent player but his injuries are too much now.

Would you want Lupul from a couple years ago?

I don't think it's fair to compare Tanev to Lupul.

Didn't Lupul have a chronic injury? Something that kept getting reinjured all the time? Tanev has been missed a lot of time this year to mumps and a broken jaw. That's hardly going to repeat itself. Only so many times you can block a puck with your face before you start turning away. He'll learn his lesson quick enough.
Also, Lupul is the worst case scenario. Yes, it is possible that Tanev keeps missing more than 20 games every season, but likely? I think not.

Also I'd like to remind you that in hindsight, the ask from Leafs fans for Lupul was also very high. There were no biters, but the price was set high. The same goes for Tanev. If he does manage to stay healthy, he is a premium defender at the most prized position. And he has synergy with Rielly to boot. That has value.
In the end, we're just going to wait this out until Tanev pulls off a decent uninjured season. There's actually a chance we might move Edler out at the deadline instead (promise him a contract if he moves for a chance at the cup).
 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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I don't think it's fair to compare Tanev to Lupul.

Didn't Lupul have a chronic injury? Something that kept getting reinjured all the time? Tanev has been missed a lot of time this year to mumps and a broken jaw. That's hardly going to repeat itself. Only so many times you can block a puck with your face before you start turning away. He'll learn his lesson quick enough.
Also, Lupul is the worst case scenario. Yes, it is possible that Tanev keeps missing more than 20 games every season, but likely? I think not.

Also I'd like to remind you that in hindsight, the ask from Leafs fans for Lupul was also very high. There were no biters, but the price was set high. The same goes for Tanev. If he does manage to stay healthy, he is a premium defender at the most prized position. And he has synergy with Rielly to boot. That has value.
In the end, we're just going to wait this out until Tanev pulls off a decent uninjured season. There's actually a chance we might move Edler out at the deadline instead (promise him a contract if he moves for a chance at the cup).

Nope, almost none of Lupul's injuries were consistent. He had the same situation, back injury, blood infection from the surgery to fix the back injury, broken arm off a blocked shot (from a teammate), hit that tore something in his shoulder, groin injury, etc.

Some guys are just brittle.
 

zcaptain

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Apr 4, 2012
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What about this...……

Tanev
Tanev + 2019 4th if he plays less than 70 games in 2018 - 2019*
Tanev + 2019 3rd if he plays less than 60 games in 2018 - 2019*

for

2018 1st + a conditional 2019 1st if the Leaf's win the cup in 2018 - 2019
2018 1st + 2019 2nd + a conditional 2020 2nd if Tanev plays 70 or more games in 2018 - 2019*
2018 1st + 2019 2nd otherwise if he plays less than 70 games in 2018 - 2019*

*Maintenance Days not included in injury days
 

RandV

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I don't think it's fair to compare Tanev to Lupul.

Didn't Lupul have a chronic injury? Something that kept getting reinjured all the time? Tanev has been missed a lot of time this year to mumps and a broken jaw. That's hardly going to repeat itself. Only so many times you can block a puck with your face before you start turning away. He'll learn his lesson quick enough.
Also, Lupul is the worst case scenario. Yes, it is possible that Tanev keeps missing more than 20 games every season, but likely? I think not.

Yes Lupul was having some serious injury issues combined with his contract let Toronto acquire him as a cap dump, pulled through them having a couple good seasons with the Leafs earning a new multi year contract, then had the injury bug flair up again making the new contract look horrible.

We don't actually know what the issue is with Tanev at the moment, there's been a lot of 'lower body' injuries keeping him out of a lot of games the past two seasons. Could be a chronic issue that's going to keep him getting injured, or it could be something that can recover from and resume regular play. Either way this typically isn't information that organizations release to the fans, so we can only speculate, but actual team doctors or any team looking to trade for such a player will have a much better idea.

The thing I always like to point out though is that calling this a career-long thing for Tanev is ridiculous, people just obfuscate the issue by looking at his early NHL GP and overlooking the fact that he spent his first 3 pro seasons bouncing between the NHL/AHL with time spent in transition or the press box. I pulled these numbers for another thread, but looking at Tanev's injury list through his first six seasons you get:

2010-11
Missed 3 games (upper body injury).
2011-12
0 injruies
2012-13
Missed the last 10 regular season and first 4 playoff games (leg injury).
2013-14
Missed 7 games (broken thumb)
Missed the last 11 regular season games (broken finger).
2014-15
Missed 2 games (undisclosed).
Missed 10 games (upper body injury).
2015-16
Missed 1 game (upper body injury).
Missed 1 game (undisclosed).
Missed 2 games (lower body injury).
Missed 3 games (upper body injury).
Missed 6 games (undisclosed).

Which is a total of 56 games lost to injuries over his first six years, averaging roughly 9 regular season games lost a season. Potentially lower as there are 9 "undisclosed" games which may not necessarily be from injury. That's nothing to unusual, this is hardly a Sami Salo case here.
 
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Shanejones

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I don't want Tanev. At all. He's a decent player but his injuries are too much now.

Would you want Lupul from a couple years ago?
Austin Mathews has played two seasons(164 games) and he has missed 20 already, based on what leaf fans are saying about Tanev being injury prone, I’d say Austin is well on his way to pass Tanev for missed games
 

DRW204

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Austin Mathews has played two seasons(164 games) and he has missed 20 already, based on what leaf fans are saying about Tanev being injury prone, I’d say Austin is well on his way to pass Tanev for missed games
Lol you're reaching....AM has more full seasons than Chris Tanev despite starting starting his career 2 years ago :laugh:

Seriously, send VAN a conditional 2019 1st, and every block of 10 games he missed, let it drop a round. if he missed a full year, VAN sends over the 1st :sarcasm:
 
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