I think we have a log jam in the defense

[MR4]

maybe you guts should watch some of the Marlies games before pontificating .Rosen has been putting up some points but him and lil have both been very weak defensively .Borgy has only played 2 games all playoffs .Holl and Marincin hsve been shouldering the load . Not sure why Borgy is on the outs after he had a real solid 48 games for us we sent him down and played Carrick ahead of him when we really needed his beef against the Bruins .Best guess he bruised the 8 million dollar ego .Holl and Borgy should both be in the lineup next year but we'll get the small playing euro guys because thats what Babcock wants teality be damned .

Complains about euros.. wants euros.. nothing would please you eh..

Lilly has the best CF% on the dcore at 68%, and Rosen's been great as well.

Funny thing is, Holl has pretty near to a consensus on worst dman of these playoffs, yet you're craving him to play. Also, maybe if you watched, you'd know Borgman is injured.

 

[Battle Lin]

an abundance of decent D isnt a logjam

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

maybe you guts should watch some of the Marlies games before pontificating .Rosen has been putting up some points but him and lil have both been very weak defensively .Borgy has only played 2 games for the Marlies all playoffs .Holl and Marincin have been shouldering the load . Not sure why Borgy is on the outs after he had a real solid 48 games for us , We sent him down and played Carrick ahead of him when we really needed his beef against the Bruins .Best guess he bruised the 8 million dollar ego and if so he will never be seen around here again .Holl and Borgy should both be in the lineup next year but we'll get the small playing euro guys because thats what Babcock wants reality be damned .

swing and a miss.

 

[81Leafs50]

Gardiner - last year of his contract, I think Dubas will probably either extend him or trade him this offseason. Dubas will not commit the same mistake that Lou did.

Rielly - Not sure how his advanced stats look last season. I actually would not be surprised if he is traded (probably no one is safe with a new GM) - if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good.

Dermott - probably a Leafs next season. Floor is top 4 probably, and hopefully Babcock would give him more time on pk.

Ron Hainsey - Hope his pk time will be cut down next season. If we can push him to 3rd pairing mins in the regular season, we are in good shape.

Zaitsev - Not sure about him. While some people said his advanced stats didn't look good in his 1st year, some say his advanced stats was actually good during the playoffs vs the Bruins? Who else we can rely on to pk if we traded him?

Rosen - Keefe said he has been the best d in the Marlies. He will get a fair shot at training camp this fall, and as this coming season will be the last year of his contract, there is no point to develop him if he can't make the big club (meaning if he can't make the Leafs at training camp, either trade him or be the 1st call up due to injuries). Can play both sides. Can he pk?

Borgman - provides physical presence that the Leafs lack behind, and can actually skate. Same as Rosen the coming season will be the last year of his contract, meaning we either use him or trade him. How did his pk skill develop (if any) at the Marlies?

Carrick - While his advanced stats seems fine, I think our current d core is too packed for him to have a future with the Leafs. He can't play his own style on offense anyway with all the others in front of him. He may actually contribute much more on a bad team. I think he will get traded.

Holl - A sizable RD, I believe he has a real shot to make the big club next season, but the competition will be fierce.

Ozhiganov - hate to write him off before even the training camp starts, but again, possibly competing against Holl and Rosen (and others) for a spot with the Leafs, and it could be an uphill battle.

So there are 8-10 defense (assuming no trades or FA signings) already that may deserve a chance with the big club next season. It is good to let the players to know that no one's job is secured, but we also need to think about contract status (i.e. Gardiner, Borgman, Rosen) of several players. We may not need a big name defenseman, but ideally we may also need someone outside the organization now to pk.

there is no log jam if Holl, Carrick, Borgman, Ozhiganov, Rosen, Liljegren are not NHL ready.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

In 2 years

Rielly - - -______
Dermott - Liljigren
Borgman - Zaitsev

 

[stickty111]

swing and a miss.

More like a home run swing but ended up flailing at air.

 

[ottomaddox]

We have a log jam of sub par defenders.

Not that hard to replace, if someone better comes in.

I don't see anything different than this. I wish this was a log jam of proven defensemen, but it's not.

At this point we are still trying to figure out what type of D Rielly is...

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

yes, a log jam of mediocre players.

 

[Nineteen67]

I’m not convinced Larry Robinson would do well in the Leafs defensive system. I’d love to see them fix that first and keep guys like Rielly who has a cap friendly deal

 

[SprDaVE]

Do not underestimate our internal options.

With that said, the RD needs some love and the Leafs cannot go into next season with Babcock thinking all he has is Hainsey. He needs to stop.

 

[Liminality]

Do not underestimate our internal options.

With that said, the RD needs some love and the Leafs cannot go into next season with Babcock thinking all he has is Hainsey. He needs to stop.

I'm not sure Hainsey can survive another 4 minutes of PK time on top of almost 18 minutes at even strength per game next season. Either find another trustworthy PKer to reduce the PK time or a good enough quality D to reduce his even strength time.

 

[Cams]

Why are people so fixated on Holl? Because he scored in his first 2 NHL games? I see him as a career AHL player with the sporadic call up.

I think the best (ideal) solution going forward is this: Trade Gardiner at the draft or before the season starts, get assets while saving his contract in cap space. Sign John Carlson (to a reasonable, but fairly high contract). Then you can augment the bottom pairing either with a low end UFA signing (Pateryn?) as insurance. This will buy time to evaluate progression of Rosen, Borgman, and see if Liljegren, Ozhniganov, Lindgren even, are maybe ready to step in this coming season. Would hate to see UFA signings be missed banking on the previously mentioned group "hopefully" being ready.

Dermott is ready - no doubt.

 

[SprDaVE]

Why are people so fixated on Holl? Because he scored in his first 2 NHL games? I see him as a career AHL player with the sporadic call up.

I think the best (ideal) solution going forward is this: Trade Gardiner at the draft or before the season starts, get assets while saving his contract in cap space. Sign John Carlson (to a reasonable, but fairly high contract). Then you can augment the bottom pairing either with a low end UFA signing (Pateryn?) as insurance. This will buy time to evaluate progression of Rosen, Borgman, and see if Liljegren, Ozhniganov, Lindgren even, are maybe ready to step in this coming season. Would hate to see UFA signings be missed banking on the previously mentioned group "hopefully" being ready.

Dermott is ready - no doubt.

Holl is a mobile defenseman that has a huge reach and has a decent skillset. There's something to like there, not because he scored in a couple games. His trajectory keeps going upwards and there's probably some form of NHL defenseman there, even in a depth role.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[gabeliscious]

Rielly. Xxxxx
Gardiner. Zaitsev
Dermott. Hainsey

Lili is only real prospect of substance. Players below are all interchangeable. Some are better then others but none would be upgrade on ^^^^imo

Carrick
Rosen
Borgman
Holl
Marincin

 

[mapleleaf979]

I guess he is not looking at Holl's foot speed from a dead stop as an issue. As far as the NHL goes for Holl, he will have to perform a miracle on his first 2-3 strides to make the NHL next year or ever. I dont think he will play another game for the Leafs. In the AHL his long reach and good stick mask that.

 

[MyBudJT]

We definitely have a logjam on D! Our battle on D is the most intriguing part of our roster IMO.

We know we have good depth in forward, but I think we've developed pretty good depth at D as well.

The way I see it, our locks are:
Rielly-______
_______-Zaitsev
Dermott-_____

Do we keep a Jake Gardiner, or look to flip him for other assets?
Can Rosen or Borgman crack the roster this year on LD?
Can Ozhiganov or Holl crack the roster this year on RD?
Do we keep Hainsey? Put him with Rielly? Put him on the 3rd pair?
What about Carrick, will we keep him, or put him on the trade market?
Liljegren is probably only 1-2 years away at this point...
As much as he's disliked here, Polak really wouldn't be that bad of an option to bring back as a #6/#7D.


If it were up to me:

Trade:
To CGY:
William Nylander
Jake Gardiner

To TOR:
Dougie Hamilton
Sam Bennett

Trade Carrick and Leivo

Sign John Tavares to an 8 year deal and Thomas Vanek to a 1 year deal

Hyman(2.5)-Matthews(0.925)-Marner(0.925)
Bennett(2.1*)-*Tavares*(11)-*Vanek*(7.25)
Marleau(6.25)-Kadri(4.5)-Kapanen(0.8633)
Johnsson(*1.25*)-Lindholm(0.925)-Brown(2.1)
Martin (2.5)

Rielly(5)-Hamilton(5.75)
Dermott*0.863)-Zaitsev(4.5)
Rosen(0.925)-Hainsey(3)
Ozhiganov(0.925), Holl(*0.75*)

Andersen(5)
Sparks(0.675)

== ~ 70.5 mil in cap hit... This would easily accommodate raises to Matthews, Marner and Kapanen...


Let Borgman develop a bit more with the Marlies, he will be a solid player in 2019/2020 IMO, and a good Hainsey replacement.

 

[Mr Hockey]

1. Rielly ~ "new guy"
2. "new guy" ~ Zaitsev
3. Dermott ~ Hainsey

 

[IWD]

In 2 years

Rielly - - -______
Dermott - Liljigren
Borgman - Zaitsev

Dermott and Liljegren is a pretty impressive second-pairing if they hit and maintain their potential. If Zaitsev can have a bounceback year and anchor that third pairing, the team could end up being in really good shape.

On a side note, they're probably going to lose someone that's really good to Seattle.

 

[Ratboy]

Trade Gardiner. We need more high IQ players. Not some of the dumbest in the league.

FLAME SHIELD ACTIVATED

 

[Machinae]

Rielly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Holl
Borgman - Rosen

This is probably what we have penciled in as a starting 8. Carrick will be unqualified and released as a free agent imo. Orzhiganov is a wild card. If the Leafs make a move for a D-man you can almost certainly kiss one of these 8 players goodbye. Gardiner moving for a RD of similar or lesser calibre seems like a possibility with the potential to move Hainsey back to LD and have Rosen and Borgman as options after Dermott.

 

[X66]

One thing about Dubas that I love is that he is going to put an end to this Polak(and hopefully Hainsey) non-sense.

By far the biggest glaring hole on the team was that our right-side D could not make a play with the puck. This is why Zaitsev bouncing back is massive.

 

[Matthews34]

This thread is nonsense. You can's find 6 guaranteed NHL calibre defensemen on the OP list so how the hell could we possibly have a logjam? The OP also mentions trading the team's best defenseman in Rielly, utter nonsense. Never change Leaf fans.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Ideally Gardiner forms part of a package towards a top pairing RHD. If not, let him play out his contract and see what options we have in the offseason. Consider him a fallback option. If nothing better presents itself, we re-sign him, as we don't become a better team by letting him walk without a replacement in place.