I think the Wings have turned the corner

[MBH]

I don't think its fair to compare the Wings to LA with a still very productive Kopitar and Doughty on the team. When Z and Kronner fell apart we really had no workable vets left.

As for NYR and Panarin, you need the players to want to sign here. NY has a certain draw even when a team is bad that Detroit lacks. Its not going to draw in a lot of youngish guys looking to party and live it up. Early 30s guys with kids and wives is a whole other scenario, but we don't really want or need those guys right now.

I do agree that we are tanking, just not full tanking. Yzerman is making sure the team is driven by the skills of our young players for better or worse while bringing in some vets to prevent a young team from spiraling. We aren't going to be artificially propped up by one or two players in their late prime years.

Yzerman knows that a bad cap situation can mess up your cup window. You have to commit to the right guys. I'd hate to have to potentially trade a Seider in a few years because we signed a Tyler Johnson esque player. In a flat cap world people will eventually not have money to spend.

It's not a comparison.
It is what it is.
Some bad teams spend money. Some don't.
That's a choice.
A couple years ago, Buffalo traded for Ryan O'Reilly. They signed Jeff Skinner. They signed Okposo.
They f***ed up.
Do you want Yzerman to do that?
Probably not (though Ryan O'Reilly is great).

But what about Panarin?
Personally, I like Panarin, but I don't think he makes much sense.

Again, the Rangers made a choice.

Yzerman is making his choice.
He'd rather finish bottom five than with fillers and prospects than spend a lot of money and flirt with a playoff spot.
And we all f***ing know it.

Now, I think the day is soon coming when he'll change his mind.

 

[AussieWings]

I only became interested in hockey recently. Picked the Red Wings as my team, knowing what I was in for (and partly, because of it -- getting in when a team is at their worst could be great, if I get to see them become good). Watched every single Wings game in 18-19 and 19-20. Even enjoyed it, despite all the negativity on these forums. Watched the first four or five games last season, and just couldn't stomach it any more. I regret that a little, given it sounds like they improved towards the end of the season.

At this stage, though, I'm excited for the new season, and hopeful I'll at least see something to make me look forward to seasons ahead. They might not have turned the corner, but they're at least in the process of taking it and maybe, just maybe, it won't be too long before they're accelerating out of it. But all I really want is glimpses that tell me that I might eventually get to watch some genuinely good hockey, if I stick with it.

 

[jkutswings]

I was pretty candid that this season would be another rough one standings-wise, with possibly another to follow. I meant turning a corner more in the sense of the team that is on the ice and what it represents.

Of course these prospects are going to need to develop. But gone are the days of getting excited about Marchenko-level prospects, for example. The ones we all argued about getting their shots when they were closing in on 25 in a lot of cases. You can only blame Holland's over-ripening philosophy so much. Most of the time, they just weren't that good. That's why they were still trying to fight their way onto an uncompetitive roster at such old ages for rookies.

Now though? We have Zadina, Rasmussen, and Veleno already with their feet wet to varying degrees, getting up to speed. On top of fresh faces in Vrana, Suter, and to a lesser degree Fabbri. This season, Seider is making his NHL debut at 20 years old. And possibly Raymond and Berggren joining him. We'll be expecting Edvinsson to be worked in over the next couple seasons, along with Johansson, with Cossa hopefully not far behind. Got another promising young goalie starting this season in Nedeljkovic.

Watching this team come together, even if it doesn't translate to being competitive right away, is a far cry from just a few years ago. Back when this team's depth was the corpses of Frans Nielsen and Justin Abdelkader. It's a night and day difference. We're not watching the last pitiful gasps of a once great beast anymore, we're watching a phoenix coming from the ashes. There's a foundation to build on now, and it's uphill from here. That's the corner being turned. The organization is exciting again.

Quoted for truth. You're spot on with all of this.

Do I expect significantly more wins this season? No. But do I expect the continued trend of more of the roster being worth watching? Yes. Seider could make every rookie mistake in the book, and I'd sooner watch him learn and show flashes along the way than waste two hours a night on a lineup "featuring" the guys of the "keep The Streak alive" era.

Keep going Yzerman. The slow climb is coming.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's not a comparison.
It is what it is.
Some bad teams spend money. Some don't.
That's a choice.
A couple years ago, Buffalo traded for Ryan O'Reilly. They signed Jeff Skinner. They signed Okposo.
They f***ed up.
Do you want Yzerman to do that?
Probably not (though Ryan O'Reilly is great).

But what about Panarin?
Personally, I like Panarin, but I don't think he makes much sense.

Again, the Rangers made a choice.

Yzerman is making his choice.
He'd rather finish bottom five than with fillers and prospects than spend a lot of money and flirt with a playoff spot.
And we all f***ing know it.

Now, I think the day is soon coming when he'll change his mind.

If it's a choice and not a comparison... why the venom against the choice Yzerman has made? The Wings "tanked" in as much as they let a bunch of awful contracts that they were paying a massive premium on (because the players were worthless garbage) roll off the books. The only assets they had with any worth were the guys like Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi who if you're trying to become a better team in the short term you can't just go ahead and trade for futures.

It's tanking because Yzerman isn't blowing his load over the first halfway decent NHLer on the market that he'd have to sign to a bad contract to get them to come to Detroit? He's "tanking" because he's not out there competing to sign Zach Hyman to the worst contract in hockey or outbidding other teams for second pairing Ds?

The Red Wings had more viable NHL players at the end of this past season on their roster than they did in the past couple years. They had virtually no talent in 2019 (and that's with everyone healthy).

 

[Snuggs]

I'm pretty sure Yzerman is deliberately handing out 1-2 year contracts. I doubt ownership is forcing his hand. It's the smart thing to do since management still doesn't know what they have with the young players. It's possible that none of them are core players on a winning team, so why anchor yourself to a large contract for a player that isn't worth keeping?

Yeah, my argument isn't that anyone currently is core player worth signing... more so there hasn't been a real effort to bring core players in on purpose. Through trades or UFA's.

Seems to be by design like you said, by Yzerman going real slow or ownership unwilling to open the purse without a core. Idk who it is totally, i'm just an outsider looking in and alls my post was articulating was I thought Yzerman had a chance to do some exciting things and he backed off and stayed with the same playbook the previous two offseason with lower end signings. Doesn't mean I've lost faith or anything but I am aloud to be disappointed lol.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah, my argument isn't that anyone currently is core player worth signing... more so there hasn't been a real effort to bring core players in on purpose. Through trades or UFA's.

Seems to be by design like you said, by Yzerman going real slow or ownership unwilling to open the purse without a core. Idk who it is totally, i'm just an outsider looking in and alls my post was articulating was I thought Yzerman had a chance to do some exciting things and he backed off and stayed with the same playbook the previous two offseason with lower end signings. Doesn't mean I've lost faith or anything but I am aloud to be disappointed lol.

With what assets? They have a boatload of cash, yes. But if you're, say, Alex Pietrangelo and Vegas who was in the Cup finals like two years ago is offering you around 9 and Detroit who is at the dead bottom is offering you 11... you're probably taking the 9 and playing for a Cup. Also, if he did sign Alex Pietrangelo or similar for 11, people here would be ludicrously up in arms because that's a crazy contract.

They didn't have much in the way of tradeable assets and the ones they did have either did get moved (Mantha), were too injured to move (Bertuzzi), or are things that you wouldn't really want to give up if you're trying to get better long term (top 6 picks, Larkin, etc.). Like, they had a couple pieces worth something... but even their valuable pieces fall way short of other team's valuables.

There hasn't been an effort because the Wings first had no space and then as soon as they had space had no assets worth a damn to move that wouldn't also be a pyrrhic victory in that what we would need to give up would hurt the rebuild almost as much as what we'd acquire. This offseason is the first time that maybe you can have a little bit of disappointment... and in this offseason, he went balls deep to shore up the goalie position, he added to the defense and our best prospect is promoting.

I don't like going too far down this well, but what the hell do you want Yzerman to do? He's making moves that are making the team better. They're not doing it like tomorrow, but anyone with eyes can look and see that there is a plan towards actually getting better.

 

[Snuggs]

With what assets? They have a boatload of cash, yes. But if you're, say, Alex Pietrangelo and Vegas who was in the Cup finals like two years ago is offering you around 9 and Detroit who is at the dead bottom is offering you 11... you're probably taking the 9 and playing for a Cup. Also, if he did sign Alex Pietrangelo or similar for 11, people here would be ludicrously up in arms because that's a crazy contract.

They didn't have much in the way of tradeable assets and the ones they did have either did get moved (Mantha), were too injured to move (Bertuzzi), or are things that you wouldn't really want to give up if you're trying to get better long term (top 6 picks, Larkin, etc.). Like, they had a couple pieces worth something... but even their valuable pieces fall way short of other team's valuables.

There hasn't been an effort because the Wings first had no space and then as soon as they had space had no assets worth a damn to move that wouldn't also be a pyrrhic victory in that what we would need to give up would hurt the rebuild almost as much as what we'd acquire. This offseason is the first time that maybe you can have a little bit of disappointment... and in this offseason, he went balls deep to shore up the goalie position, he added to the defense and our best prospect is promoting.

I don't like going too far down this well, but what the hell do you want Yzerman to do? He's making moves that are making the team better. They're not doing it like tomorrow, but anyone with eyes can look and see that there is a plan towards actually getting better.

Well see now you're doing the whole I think Yzerman is bad routine when that's not what I said.

I said I was disappointed, Which btw you acknowledge in your post is the only time to have some disappointment so I don't understand why you are even arguing with me; cause I thought he had opportunity to spend and be different and he sort of did the some old thing.

I already said in another post in this thread Yzerman's done a good job overall, drafted well, made good trades, and cleared cap and I'm not bashing him overall. Only knock possibly on him at all is there isn't a core player he's brought in yet(likely changing with Seider who imo will be the Wings best defender next year.) Like you said it seems by design. They're just rolling through the motions till idk, something lands in their laps or till a lot of cap space is available.

It was his first opportunity, imo, to do different things and he stay with his same previous style, which is fine, but hopefully next off-season they'll spend, or make moves within the year/TDL. It's about time to start supplementing the teams talent outside just the draft now. An if you look at the money coming off the books next year, idk a good excuse not to spend.

 

[Henkka]

I thought he had opportunity to spend and be different and he sort of did the some old thing.

I already said in another post in this thread Yzerman's done a good job, drafted well, made good trades, and cleared cap and I'm not bashing him overall. Only knock possibly on him at all is there isn't a core player he's brought in yet(likely changing with Seider who imo will be the Wings best defender next year.)

It was his first opportunity, imo, to do different things and he stay with his same previous style, which is fine, but hopefully next off-season they'll spend, or make moves within the year/TDL. It's about time to start supplementing the teams talent outside just the draft now. An if you look at the money coming off the books next year, idk a good excuse not to spend.

It has looked now that he will bring heavily in that Larkin age-class, and those guys are not UFAs yet. Suter was, but he was an exception, because Chicago didn't qualify him.

But this group of possible UFAs at Larkin -1 +1 age frame will start to grow from this season and on.

It seems that Yzerman really knows that age-class well, it's his diamond Brayden Point who is 3rd best scorer from that draft after Draisaitl and Pastrnak.

Larkin 25
Vrana 25
Bertuzzi 26
Suter 25
Fabbri 25
Erne 26
Stephens 24
(Dvorak 25) ???
(Perlini 25)

Maybe he'll snag W.Nylander from Leafs and put him in the middle. Dvorak (currently at rumours) is from same class. So is Fabbri & Vrana. Perlini was same try as long-shot (didn't work).

Bertuzzi & Erne will belong to Barkov/MacKinnon class. Sean Monahan could be potential Center UFA in 2 years. Barkov will extend at Florida.

Time to spend maybe isn't yet. But it will probably start at next season, when all dead cap weight (Nielsen) is gone, and the possible UFAs will start hitting free agency. They are still RFAs or contracted.

 

[Snuggs]

Also, You have to spend wisely! No one is saying go throw 11 million at a guy like Pietrangelo. Or waste 5 million over 7 years on a guy outside the rebuild plan.

 

[BinCookin]

What players were you hoping to sign Snuggs?
Or
What players do you think we should have traded and to acquire whom?

 

[Run the Jewels]

I've given this some thought and I think next year is the year where we are fully ready for liftoff. The main reasons include the Neilsen and DeKeyser contracts finally come of the books. Those are the last two really bad contracts left. Add in the recent draft picks and the defense should have the makings of being one of the better units in the league, not the absolute worst. We should also be able to address our lack of scoring line centers, either through the draft, free agency or a trade.

So next year is the year the Yzerplan achieves liftoff.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well see now you're doing the whole I think Yzerman is bad routine when that's not what I said.

I said I was disappointed, Which btw you acknowledge in your post is the only time to have some disappointment so I don't understand why you are even arguing with me; cause I thought he had opportunity to spend and be different and he sort of did the some old thing.

I already said in another post in this thread Yzerman's done a good job overall, drafted well, made good trades, and cleared cap and I'm not bashing him overall. Only knock possibly on him at all is there isn't a core player he's brought in yet(likely changing with Seider who imo will be the Wings best defender next year.) Like you said it seems by design. They're just rolling through the motions till idk, something lands in their laps or till a lot of cap space is available.

It was his first opportunity, imo, to do different things and he stay with his same previous style, which is fine, but hopefully next off-season they'll spend, or make moves within the year/TDL. It's about time to start supplementing the teams talent outside just the draft now. An if you look at the money coming off the books next year, idk a good excuse not to spend.

I was just responding to “hasn’t made an effort to bring in core pieces”. Core pieces haven’t been available to make an effort to go get.

They could have gone out and signed guys like Danault or Hyman or David Savard… but you’re at a point of diminishing returns with those guys.

That’s the crux of my post. It’s hard for me to understand being that disappointed with only that specific part of the job when he made a move to try to add a core piece just this past draft.

The young, high end, desirable C hasn’t been there when they’ve picked in the draft nor have they come onto the UFA or trade markets without some massive bugaboo that is a nonstarter for people (see Eichel)

 

[raymond23]

Well they are back to must-see tv for me simply because of Mo Seider.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I've given this some thought and I think next year is the year where we are fully ready for liftoff. The main reasons include the Neilsen and DeKeyser contracts finally come of the books. Those are the last two really bad contracts left. Add in the recent draft picks and the defense should have the makings of being one of the better units in the league, not the absolute worst. We should also be able to address our lack of scoring line centers, either through the draft, free agency or a trade.

So next year is the year the Yzerplan achieves liftoff.

Meh, I don't think those contracts are really preventing us from doing anything at the moment. In the past I would have agreed, but not at this point. Even when they do come off of the books, you are just going to replace them with another, over paid veteran with another bad contract. Sure you will get more for your money (hard not to) but you aren't signing impactful high-end players.

 

[FMichael]

I think we are definitely heading in the right direction. We aren't signing and/or giving giant horrible contract extensions to old & washed up garbage players anymore like Holland was known to do. That's a huge start.

I trust Yzerman in the draft far more than Kenny these days.

Stevie also knows how to find overlooked gems at bargain prices. I was talking with a friend of mine that is a Blues fan (I'm in STL.) He pointed this out to me. Stevie finds guys that are super hungry 2nd liners that want more ice time and overlooked 3rd liners. Vrana and Fabbri for example. Finding a 1C would help immensely.

That said, it will still be two or three seasons before the Wings make some noise and are genuinely "back."

Indeed.

From what I understand - the 2022 and 2023 drafts are said to be pretty strong with hi-end talent...Some lotto luck would be fitting for us.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I was just responding to “hasn’t made an effort to bring in core pieces”. Core pieces haven’t been available to make an effort to go get.

They could have gone out and signed guys like Danault or Hyman or David Savard… but you’re at a point of diminishing returns with those guys.

That’s the crux of my post. It’s hard for me to understand being that disappointed with only that specific part of the job when he made a move to try to add a core piece just this past draft.

The young, high end, desirable C hasn’t been there when they’ve picked in the draft nor have they come onto the UFA or trade markets without some massive bugaboo that is a nonstarter for people (see Eichel)

Agreed. It's not like Steve can just go down to the Elite Superster Store and pick up some Centers and maybe a Defenseman or two if they are on special. This narrative that he's not doing enough strikes me as odd.

"He should trade!" Um, there are maybe 30 superstars in the league across positions and teams that have them, are pretty unwilling to move them because..well...they are superstars and the cornerstone of their teams, so what should he be moving exactly? Eichel being available is absurdly rare and not without plenty of questions and would cost, supposedly, 5x 1st Rd Assets - so that trade begins with Seider and Raymond.

"He should sign one!" Again, last time I checked UFA - there weren't any legit stars. Could he have signed a bunch of 2nd tier, but very good players, in the middle or late in their careers for large contracts? Of course. We did that - that's how we ended up with Weiss and Nielsen. Both of which at time of signing were considered near the top of the Free Agent Center Market their respective years. The guys in Free Agency are solid players, but are older to be eligible for their UFA, expensive if they are good, and rare is there a John Tavares level UFA available and at this point, I highly doubt anyone is choosing Detroit if their goal is to 1) win; 2) exciting/cosmopolitan market; 3) not be expected to carry the team; etc.

"He should've drafted one!" - by the time we picked in the last three drafts - the top flight C's were gone, and the one time an argument for Zegras of Cozens, was the year Yzerman went off board and got us Seider - which we have all generally come to accept, as well as pundits like TSN, as the top Prospect outside the NHL right now - so, good move?

"He should have gotten more talent in the later rounds" - Those rounds are long shots in the very best of circumstances. The idea that we are going to unlock a wealth of talent that will become our core outside the 1st is incredible far fetched and statistically insane.

I get the frustration that more isn't being done. That good management is making the best team right now that you can and you want to see results now. But you have to be careful that you're doing making short term decisions that have a detrimental impact on the long term development and opportunity of the team. We saw the "Win now at the expense of the future" strategy from 2013-2018; now it's time to be patient. A lot is happening even though it's not netted immediate results right now.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

It has looked now that he will bring heavily in that Larkin age-class, and those guys are not UFAs yet. Suter was, but he was an exception, because Chicago didn't qualify him.

But this group of possible UFAs at Larkin -1 +1 age frame will start to grow from this season and on.

It seems that Yzerman really knows that age-class well, it's his diamond Brayden Point who is 3rd best scorer from that draft after Draisaitl and Pastrnak.

Larkin 25
Vrana 25
Bertuzzi 26
Suter 25
Fabbri 25
Erne 26
Stephens 24
(Dvorak 25) ???
(Perlini 25)

Yeah, I think this is truly an Age/Playoff Window thing for Yzerman. Assuming we're timing a window for our current class of top prospects (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Beggren, etc.) when they are beginning to enter their prime; that's like in 3 years. That's putting those guys around 22-24 years old. That also moves this current group right at their peak of 27-29; with about 3-4 years before declining down - roughly. I would be pretty shocked if he's looking at anyone outside this time frame whose not going to be a serious player for them in 3 years. Which is why someone like Bertuzzi is right on the edge for me on whether Yzerman would consider him part of this or not - or does it make sense to trade him off and reset back 18 year old draft pick and maybe a young prospect?

 

[PullHard]

I've given this some thought and I think next year is the year where we are fully ready for liftoff. The main reasons include the Neilsen and DeKeyser contracts finally come of the books. Those are the last two really bad contracts left. Add in the recent draft picks and the defense should have the makings of being one of the better units in the league, not the absolute worst. We should also be able to address our lack of scoring line centers, either through the draft, free agency or a trade.

So next year is the year the Yzerplan achieves liftoff.

I was just looking at Cap Friendly and had the same thoughts

The last two rotten Holland contracts come off the books and we only have scraps of Abdelkader's buyout on the books

I get Rzombo saying that these don't really impact anything, I get that, we have plenty of cap space, but I feel like those are two roster spots and a chunk of change that open things up for Yzerman to get really aggressive

For example, those two cap hits expiring makes up the vast majority of an offer for Barkov in UFA

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I was just looking at Cap Friendly and had the same thoughts

The last two rotten Holland contracts come off the books and we only have scraps of Abdelkader's buyout on the books

I get Rzombo saying that these don't really impact anything, I get that, we have plenty of cap space, but I feel like those are two roster spots and a chunk of change that open things up for Yzerman to get really aggressive

For example, those two cap hits expiring makes up the vast majority of an offer for Barkov in UFA

Keep dreaming. There is no way in hell that Florida let Barkov sniff UFA status. They'll pay him Auston Matthews money in an extension.

 

[Winger98]

What players were you hoping to sign Snuggs?
Or
What players do you think we should have traded and to acquire whom?

I'll play and say that I think they could have signed Krug last year at 7/$49m and I would have been fine with it. This year...eh. I think the time had passed for our wallets to open doors in the same way it could have last offseason.

 

[PullHard]

Keep dreaming. There is no way in hell that Florida let Barkov sniff UFA status. They'll pay him Auston Matthews money in an extension.

I'm not expecting anything drastic to happen, I'm just pointing out that once those two deals expire there are none left on our cap that are just big bloated bad deals for replacement level players and in theory Yzerman can make a bold pitch with 0 concern about wasted money or bad contracts piling up. I used Barkov as an example because as it stands he is the nearest big time UFA type player, but this can be applied to any player in any offseason moving forward.

 

[MBH]

If it's a choice and not a comparison... why the venom against the choice Yzerman has made? The Wings "tanked" in as much as they let a bunch of awful contracts that they were paying a massive premium on (because the players were worthless garbage) roll off the books. The only assets they had with any worth were the guys like Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi who if you're trying to become a better team in the short term you can't just go ahead and trade for futures.

It's tanking because Yzerman isn't blowing his load over the first halfway decent NHLer on the market that he'd have to sign to a bad contract to get them to come to Detroit? He's "tanking" because he's not out there competing to sign Zach Hyman to the worst contract in hockey or outbidding other teams for second pairing Ds?

The Red Wings had more viable NHL players at the end of this past season on their roster than they did in the past couple years. They had virtually no talent in 2019 (and that's with everyone healthy).

What venom?
You guys read the word "tank" and assume venom.
That's on you.
Maybe it's because you don't like the assertion that Yzerman's moves are tank moves.
They were two years ago. They were last year. And they are this year.

If that offends you, or you feel that's venomous, I don't know what to tell you.

If you think this team is significantly better, I think you're fooling yourself.

This team won't be significantly better until the young stars make it significantly better.

And the bottom line for me is this: I advocated for the signing of a good LD and veteran RD.
I toyed with the idea of Center, but I really didn't like any of the centers out there enough, Suter included.
We got Leddy instead of Oleksiak. Right position - but wrong guy, IMO.
And at RD, we've not signed anyone who's going to take some pressure of Hronek/Seider.
We brought back Staal for whatever, reason.

But whether we went my route or Yzerman's route neither were going to change things very much.
Either way the team is at best a bottom 10 team.

My plan provides room for young kids to play. Yzerman's really doesn't.
He'd rather let Trashill decide to bench the young kid in favor of Sam Gagner.

 

[Frk It]

What venom?
You guys read the word "tank" and assume venom.
That's on you.
Maybe it's because you don't like the assertion that Yzerman's moves are tank moves.
They were two years ago. They were last year. And they are this year.

If that offends you, or you feel that's venomous, I don't know what to tell you.

If you think this team is significantly better, I think you're fooling yourself.

This team won't be significantly better until the young stars make it significantly better.

And the bottom line for me is this: I advocated for the signing of a good LD and veteran RD.
I toyed with the idea of Center, but I really didn't like any of the centers out there enough, Suter included.
We got Leddy instead of Oleksiak. Right position - but wrong guy, IMO.
And at RD, we've not signed anyone who's going to take some pressure of Hronek/Seider.
We brought back Staal for whatever, reason.

But whether we went my route or Yzerman's route neither were going to change things very much.
Either way the team is at best a bottom 10 team.

My plan provides room for young kids to play. Yzerman's really doesn't.
He'd rather let Trashill decide to bench the young kid in favor of Sam Gagner.

Here is a list of things Jamie Oleksiak is better at than Nick Leddy:





.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Here is a list of things Jamie Oleksiak is better at than Nick Leddy:





.

This should go in the "All time greatest Detroit Red Wings Forum Posts" thread.

EDIT: @Bench

 

[MBH]

Here is a list of things Jamie Oleksiak is better at than Nick Leddy:





.

Defense.
Skating.
Shooting.
Hitting.

Nick Leddy is going to be traded for a 2nd rounder in February.
I wouldn't get too invested.

In addition, I'm going to bet that in Leddy's next contract, he gets less than Oleksiak just got.
Feel free to take me up on that bet.