I know what you did last summer: Bergevin Edition

[Bouboumaster]

What's the worst offseason of Marc Bergevin?

2017 or 2021?

Click to read more...

 

[The90]

I nominate 2020 as well because it set you up for this season just as much as this past summer did. Long term, high dollar deals to middle 6 forwards and mid to low pairing d men. Price can win you a few rounds if you get in, but making it there is the current problem.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I nominate 2020 as well because it set you up for this season just as much as this past summer did. Long term, high dollar deals to middle 6 forwards and mid to low pairing d men. Price can win you a few rounds if you get in, but making it there is the current problem.

In 2017, he lost Radulov for nothing and chose to sign Alzner to a turdrrible contract instead of Markov. Among other things.

In 2021, Bergevin lost Danault for nothing and couldn't replace what he lost this summer. And also, Logan Mailloux.

 

[Bleeker]

I have no problem with the 2021 offseason.
He did let walk Danault and Tatar but signed Hoffman to a very reasonable contract and traded for Dvorak.
Managed to sign Savard at 3.5 AAV
Refused to match that ridiculous offersheet for KK and took the picks instead
Mailloux was a controversial pick but he was the best player available
He did ok.

It's 2017, the answer is 2017

 

[Xspyrit]

I wish Dorion had even 10% of Bergevin track record for trades and signings.

But I take Sens drafting x 1000 though

 

[Prairie Habs]

I nominate 2020 as well because it set you up for this season just as much as this past summer did. Long term, high dollar deals to middle 6 forwards and mid to low pairing d men. Price can win you a few rounds if you get in, but making it there is the current problem.

Yeah, signing toffoli at around 4M to finish top 10 in goals was so terrible. Or paying eddy 3.5 to play in the top pair of a Stanley cup finalist. Why not go for the hattrick and complain that he added a low level starter to be our backup goalie, saving the season when price missed over half the games due to injury.

I know what happened last summer is clearly still hurting you, but even a bitter leafs fan should be able to recognize that a GMs moves that got him to a cup final probably weren't terrible.

 

[HarryLime]

I know what happened last summer is clearly still hurting you, but even a bitter leafs fan should be able to recognize that a GMs moves that got him to a cup final probably weren't terrible.

 

[Captain97]

I wish Dorion had even 10% of Bergevin track record for trades and signings.

But I take Sens drafting x 1000 though

It's interesting how the teams are polar opposites. If you let MB be GM and handle trades and Had Dorian as AGM and director of scouting. You'd prbly have a really good front office assuming Dorian had autonomy.

 

[The90]

Yeah, signing toffoli at around 4M to finish top 10 in goals was so terrible. Or paying eddy 3.5 to play in the top pair of a Stanley cup finalist. Why not go for the hattrick and complain that he added a low level starter to be our backup goalie, saving the season when price missed over half the games due to injury.

I know what happened last summer is clearly still hurting you, but even a bitter leafs fan should be able to recognize that a GMs moves that got him to a cup final probably weren't terrible.

Lol. Let’s revisit this at christmas

 

[Albatros]

Mailloux was a controversial pick but he was the best player available

Debatable, most rankings had him in the 3rd round.

 

[bobholly39]

In 2017, he lost Radulov for nothing and chose to sign Alzner to a turdrrible contract instead of Markov. Among other things.

In 2021, Bergevin lost Danault for nothing and couldn't replace what he lost this summer. And also, Logan Mailloux.

The large majority of Habs fans on HF - I'd say at least ~80%, didn't want to bring back Danault due to his contract demands. And it might be more than 80%. (I personally was fine bringing him back at ~5-5.5M$ or so, most weren't). So it's great to say 3 games in "horrible move, he let Danault walk" - but it's also a bit hypocritical considering large majority of fans were in agreement.

Mailloux is a very controversial move for obvious off-ice reasons, but it doesn't really affect the Habs on-ice in anyway.

The biggest issue with the Habs off-seasons so far:

- Weber's likely retirement. Very unfortunate, but not the GM's fault
- Price injury. Again, injury, not much to do
- Price absent at start of camp and taking time off. Not exactly GM's fault either
- Sticking to Price - he left him unprotected at the expansion draft. A hell of a risky move - some loved it, some hated it.....but in the end, the end-result is they kept both goalies. Criticize the way Bergevin went about it all you want, but the end-result is fine.
- UFA's. Hoffman's contract is fine. Not sure he's a game changer, but not exactly an issue. None of his other UFA's are too overpaid or anything, some are good, some not so much, but nothing really bad. Most are good signings
- Kotkaniemi. Could he have handled the contract negotiations better so he never gets an offer sheet? Probably - but a ton of other teams had exposed RFA's going into off-season, Kotkaniemi wasn't a top 5, maybe not even a top 10 most attractive offer-sheet target. So it was a bit unpredictable how it happened.
- Dvorak trade + letting KK walk - I think this was fantastic trade. Good value, and I especially like the protection included in the first round pick.

So - was this a bad/worrisome off-season for the Habs? Yes I think so. But majority is due to Price/Weber, and nothing the GM did or didn't do.

To me there's no way this is his worst off-season.

His worst off-season is the off-season he chose not to fire Therrien, and instead traded PK Subban
Probably followed by 2017 - letting Markov walk for free. Radulov, i'm more 50/50 on

 

[Bouboumaster]

The large majority of Habs fans on HF - I'd say at least ~80%, didn't want to bring back Danault due to his contract demands. And it might be more than 80%. (I personally was fine bringing him back at ~5-5.5M$ or so, most weren't). So it's great to say 3 games in "horrible move, he let Danault walk" - but it's also a bit hypocritical considering large majority of fans were in agreement.

Mailloux is a very controversial move for obvious off-ice reasons, but it doesn't really affect the Habs on-ice in anyway.

The biggest issue with the Habs off-seasons so far:

- Weber's likely retirement. Very unfortunate, but not the GM's fault
- Price injury. Again, injury, not much to do
- Price absent at start of camp and taking time off. Not exactly GM's fault either
- Sticking to Price - he left him unprotected at the expansion draft. A hell of a risky move - some loved it, some hated it.....but in the end, the end-result is they kept both goalies. Criticize the way Bergevin went about it all you want, but the end-result is fine.
- UFA's. Hoffman's contract is fine. Not sure he's a game changer, but not exactly an issue. None of his other UFA's are too overpaid or anything, some are good, some not so much, but nothing really bad. Most are good signings
- Kotkaniemi. Could he have handled the contract negotiations better so he never gets an offer sheet? Probably - but a ton of other teams had exposed RFA's going into off-season, Kotkaniemi wasn't a top 5, maybe not even a top 10 most attractive offer-sheet target. So it was a bit unpredictable how it happened.
- Dvorak trade + letting KK walk - I think this was fantastic trade. Good value, and I especially like the protection included in the first round pick.

So - was this a bad/worrisome off-season for the Habs? Yes I think so. But majority is due to Price/Weber, and nothing the GM did or didn't do.

To me there's no way this is his worst off-season.

His worst off-season is the off-season he chose not to fire Therrien, and instead traded PK Subban
Probably followed by 2017 - letting Markov walk for free. Radulov, i'm more 50/50 on

I didn't want to sign Danault at that price but it was before Bergevin completly shat the bed with Kotkaniemi
Bergevin had two centers to secure and he secured nobody

 

[amnesiac]

In 2017, he lost Radulov for nothing and chose to sign Alzner to a turdrrible contract instead of Markov. Among other things.

In 2021, Bergevin lost Danault for nothing and couldn't replace what he lost this summer. And also, Logan Mailloux.

So to you a good GM would trade his 2C at the deadline before making a playoff run?

 

[Bouboumaster]

So to you a good GM would trade his 2C at the deadline before making a playoff run?

So to you a good GM is someone without a plan past the current year?

Center depth is something the Habs lacked for two freaking decades, and he somehow had it. He managed to lose two young centers on one summer.
You can't make this shit up.

Still think that 2017 was worst (worst offseason IMO since... when?)

 

[amnesiac]

So to you a good GM is someone without a plan past the current year?

Center depth is something the Habs lacked for two freaking decades, and he somehow had it. He managed to lose two young centers on one summer.
You can't make this shit up.

Still think that 2017 was worst (worst offseason IMO since... when?)

You seriously would've kept both Danault AND KK at $6M+ each?

How would you expect to sign Suzuki, CC, and Romanov? Cus you couldn't have otherwise

 

[Bouboumaster]

You seriously would've kept both Danault AND KK at $6M+ each?

How would you expect to sign Suzuki, CC, and Romanov? Cus you couldn't have otherwise

Bergevin put himself in a situation where he had no money and waited the f*** out to sign Kotkaniemi.

If your center depth goes from Suzuki / Danault / Kotkaniemi / Evans to Suzuki / Dvorak / Evans (?) / Brooks in one offseason, this offseason deserves to be classified as TERRIBLE.

 

[amnesiac]

Bergevin put himself in a situation where he had no money and waited the f*** out to sign Kotkaniemi.

If your center depth goes from Suzuki / Danault / Kotkaniemi / Evans to Suzuki / Dvorak / Evans (?) / Brooks in one offseason, this offseason deserves to be classified as TERRIBLE.

hindsight is 20/20... was MB supposed to expect the offer sheet from CAR? Dvorak is fine replacement at 2C for now.... and Danault was a UFA who got a a ridiculous contract from LA. What did you want MB to do? You cant just get established centres out of thin air.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

hindsight is 20/20... was MB supposed to expect the offer sheet from CAR? Dvorak is fine replacement at 2C for now.... and Danault was a UFA who got a a ridiculous contract from LA. What did you want MB to do? You cant just get established centres out of thin air.

Offersheet is sort of irrelevant to the issue in that they would have ran out

Suzuki/KK/Evans/Paquette

Which is probably even worse in the short term.

They lost Danault/KK and only replaced one of them.

 

[bobholly39]

Bergevin put himself in a situation where he had no money and waited the f*** out to sign Kotkaniemi.

If your center depth goes from Suzuki / Danault / Kotkaniemi / Evans to Suzuki / Dvorak / Evans (?) / Brooks in one offseason, this offseason deserves to be classified as TERRIBLE.

You just said upthread you didn't want to sign Danault.

If Bergevin signs Danault: "OMG! How can you sign him at that price! Worst contract/off-season ever!"
But now that they let him go: "OMG! How can you let him go! Worst off-season ever!"

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

2017 was really bad. Some improvements were needed, instead, they iced a way worse team and a roster that looked like bottom tier from day one. Drouin was pegged as the 1C which was laughable (and they gave up Sergachev), Radulov was the Habs best forward and they couldn't keep him, Alzner deal was a fiasco and anybody who watched the Caps could see he was declining. I believe it was even common knowledge he couldn't even open a jar with his hand because he was so banged up.

I think this off-season wasn't that terrible. Tough situation with Weber, it's not like good dmen were just up for grabs. Even the Islanders couldn't find a replacement for Leddy. Danault's time was up, and I think bringing in Dvorak was a fine move. And while Savard/Hoffman might not be world beaters, at least he was trying to improve the team.

This years team is way better than the 17 one up front, but it's also a tougher league. I feel like Bergevin probably did what he could.

 

[Bouboumaster]

You just said upthread you didn't want to sign Danault.

If Bergevin signs Danault: "OMG! How can you sign him at that price! Worst contract/off-season ever!"
But now that they let him go: "OMG! How can you let him go! Worst off-season ever!"

You can let Danault go IF Kotkaniemi is coming back lol
The fact that he put himself in a situation where he lost not one but two centers is madness

 

[amnesiac]

Offersheet is sort of irrelevant to the issue in that they would have ran out

Suzuki/KK/Evans/Paquette

Which is probably even worse in the short term.

They lost Danault/KK and only replaced one of them.

And how do you get another 2C? Overspend on a UFA that handcuffs your team for years?

This is what happens when you have mid round picks for years. If you want to blame MB for that, then sure I guess so.

I mean how many teams in the league manage to have 3 decent centres that hadn't sucked for years, or were fortunate enough to have a star UFA sign with them a la Tavares?

Look at Boston down the middle now that Krejci is gone. Look at Minny, look at Vegas since Glass busted and traded Suzuki for a winger. Nashville screwed they're team for years by acquiring Duchene and Johansen.

Drafting is key, you can either get lucky with later picks like Point, Aho, Bergeron, Kuznetsov... or you draft high. Habs blew their chances with Galchenyuk and KK, but we're also unfortunate to have those high picks in those specific drafts.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

And how do you get another 2C? Overspend on a UFA that handcuffs your team for years?

This is what happens when you have mid round picks for years. If you want to blame MB for that, then sure I guess so.

I mean how many teams in the league manage to have 3 decent centres that hadn't sucked for years, or were fortunate enough to have a star UFA sign with them a la Tavares?

Look at Boston down the middle now that Krejci is gone. Look at Minny, look at Vegas since Glass busted and traded Suzuki for a winger. Nashville screwed they're team for years by acquiring Duchene and Johansen.

Drafting is key, you can either get lucky with later picks like Point, Aho, Bergeron, Kuznetsov... or you draft high. Habs blew their chances with Galchenyuk and KK, but we're also unfortunate to have those high picks in those specific drafts.

There is no question its difficult to do obtain top six C - but if you can't get a top six C, you have to get a better 3C than Jake Evans if you're looking to try to do anything competitive year-to-year. Otherwise, why sign Hoffman/Savard/others? Trying to be this middle of the pack team is nuts to me.

I think the right offseason decisions would have been to see last year as a fluke/one-off. Once it became clear Weber wasn't coming back and they were priced out on Danault (wouldn't have signed him to that deal, but understanding the impact it has on your competitive window) - they should have sold off. Maybe now they will.