Post-Game Talk: I have no theme for this PGT

Batman or Superman?


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Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
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The days of the old fire it around the boards or bank it off the glass and out are long gone.

To survive as a top 4 Dman in the NHL today you need to retrieve and transition up ice insanely fast. Blindly ringing it around the boards to a winger doesn’t fly anymore.

Especially the new break out plays. Dman can be 3 feet from a winger and pass it 100 miles per hour to him. That kills Lucic
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
47,831
39,718
I only saw the highlights but the 3 goals were completely unstoppable. I'm guessing he was really poor otherwise based on your comment because those goals were not his fault.
People are at the point where a goal against is always stoppable and on the goalie, especially if they faced less shots.

2 were pp goals (one being 5 on 3)
Koskinen made a bunch of great saves.
Oilers had 2 high danger chances in the first 2 periods to New York's 7 5v5. He did what he could to keep us in it till our dominant 3rd.
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
11,861
11,223
Amazing what Drai can do when he has at least 1 skilled player with him not named McDavid. He's been a horse.

It is utmost importance we get one, maybe two shooters in the offseason. This can't go on like Chia's effort in getting that #1 Dman.
I wonder what 10 teams are on Hoffman's no trade list. Could have had him last year for a 2nd
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,498
15,065
People are at the point where a goal against is always stoppable and on the goalie, especially if they faced less shots.

2 were pp goals (one being 5 on 3)
Koskinen made a bunch of great saves.
Oilers had 2 high danger chances in the first 2 periods to New York's 7 5v5. He did what he could to keep us in it till our dominant 3rd.
He wasn't great, but he wasn't horrible.

5-3 hurt us

He didn't break after the 1st, which in itself was a shock. Mad some big saves at key times. The Nelson goal I think Koskinen wish he would've had back, but the other two were pretty good set plays. Similar to LD's goal
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
11,861
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Did you completely miss the Anaheim series where Draisaitl took the Oilers on his back and made Lucic and Slepychev look like a premium line? Or that Drai was the best Oiler in the playoffs.

The LSD line had me hoping multiple cups coming after that series.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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He needed to adapt to stay in the league. Same thing happened with Cogliano.

Gagner’s biggest issue was the terrible contract that MacT gave him which assumed he’d actually improve to a 50-60 point solid two way player. I have always said he’s a smart enough player with a good skill set, he just never bothered to attempt to improve his game when he was an Oiler last time. And I got chastised hard for having that opinion. The narrative was always that Gagner was the hardest working player on the team and applied himself 100% of the time. That narrative simply was false.

Hopefully he can keep up the effort and intensity level.

Part of the issue is the narrative. Its not true that Gagner never tried to step it up, or to improve. Notable improvement, in every statistic occurred in the Krueger season, and the season before that where Gagner numbers are impeccable on a bad club. However that was destroyed when Eakins came here. If anybody was disheartened by Eakins it was Gagner.

I can't imagine how you could state a player "can't be bothered to improve his game" and state that matter of fact and expect nobody to question that assumptive narrative.

Do you know if Gagner tried or not? I would dare say Krueger knew because Gagners role and importance on the team increased that season and including pk assignment. Gagner was very good at every facet of play that season and also the season prior.
 
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CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,260
39,481
NYC
People are at the point where a goal against is always stoppable and on the goalie, especially if they faced less shots.

2 were pp goals (one being 5 on 3)
Koskinen made a bunch of great saves.
Oilers had 2 high danger chances in the first 2 periods to New York's 7 5v5. He did what he could to keep us in it till our dominant 3rd.

With all due respect to @The Nuge who I have a lot of respect for as a poster, he has a severe bias against Koskinen so I was just trying to find out if it was his bias at play or if Koskinen really was that bad. The goals all looked pretty unstoppable to my eye.

Anyway, it's nice to see the Oilers putting in some solid efforts and I'm a big fan of the Drai-RNH, Gagner-McDavid combos so I might well start tuning back into Oiler games again, which I'm sure I'll regret in short order. ;)
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
11,861
11,223
How come cave never got an assist on the 2nd goal?

I thought that as well but when you look at the play, I don't think he touched puck. I was watching on computer so take that with a grain of salt. Looks like puck almost bounced over stick.
Other then that, Cave looks ok in my books. Might be addition to bottom 6.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,260
39,481
NYC
They could compete but between Talbots play, massive defensive mistakes and the team being incredibly unskilled and not able to score. We are where we are.

Oh, I know, but they looked so damn good in that stretch against some of the best teams in the NHL and it was for a good 12-13 game stretch too as there were some games before that 8-2 streak when they were vastly outplaying teams and deserved a better fate. Interestingly, this all happened with McDavid and Drai separate which has always been my preference.
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
11,861
11,223
Part of the issue is the narrative. Its not true that Gagner never tried to step it up, or to improve. Notable improvement, in every statistic occurred in the Krueger season, and the season before that where Gagner numbers are impeccable on a bad club. However that was destroyed when Eakins came here. If anybody was disheartened by Eakins it was Gagner.

I can't imagine how you could state a player "can't be bothered to improve his game" and state that matter of fact and expect nobody to question that assumptive narrative.

Do you know if Gagner tried or not? I would dare say Krueger knew because Gagners role and importance on the team increased that season and including pk assignment. Gagner was very good at every facet of play that season and also the season prior.

Man I hated Eakins. It was hard being an Oiler fan when he was here. I was at a game in Boston a few years ago and I was close to the bench. In the 3rd, Boston was beating us easily. During a stoppage in play, I yelled every expletive at him. I called him a a-hole, he sucked, and I even told him to fix his hair. I said your getting fired. What a dirty look he shot at me. I came up with the middle finger salute. The Bruin fans were even high fiving me.
The next week, Eakins was mercifully fired. You are welcome Oilernation, I would like to think I was a part of that.
It should be noted I hated Chiarelli as well
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
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Oh, I know, but they looked so damn good in that stretch against some of the best teams in the NHL and it was for a good 12-13 game stretch too as there were some games before that 8-2 streak when they were vastly outplaying teams and deserved a better fate. Interestingly, this all happened with McDavid and Drai separate which has always been my preference.
I'm pretty adamant now that Nuge and Drai should play together.

Much cheaper to find a winger for McDavid than one for Drai. Also Nuges defensive ability will help Draisaitl immensely in the long run. That and it pulls some focus away from McDavid
 
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Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
11,861
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I can't agree with this because that's a whole other gear. You can't sustain that type of play through 82 game regular season and no player, not even Connor McDavid, can. Plus that theres been several games where Draisaitl has shown this type of play. Really all of 2019 he has been carrying this club on his back.

In this instance "that player" would be the best player in hockey. Those expectations are a little high.

It seems odd that Drai has to be better than everybody to receive no criticism. Where is the similar level of critique regarding other players?

For instance even as you allude Connor McDavid has not been nearly as good this season taking NHL pts increase into account. This season might actually resemble his 3rd best season. But no criticism of that is seen.

Larsson has been questionable for two seasons now. I barely hear criticism of that. I'm one of the few even noting it. Larsson played like a lost child the whole time Klefbom was missing and he still hasn't recovered. Not that he was good before the Klefbom injury.

I'll comment on the Larsson situation. When you lose a defensive partner, you kinda lose 2 players. It takes too long for the dman to adjust to his new partner. Klefbom is very valuable to this team. To me, the core consists of McDavid, Drai, Nurse, Klefbom.
For people harping on Drai, they have to give it up. I am forever thankful to Buffalo for taking Reinhart. People, we have a COMPLETE STUD in Drai. He even has a mean streak in him. Our PP will be a thing of beauty with one addition. Drai is in the top 3 in the league on passing skills in my book. What he does on the wall and his strength, I shake my head in dis-belief. If people want to criticize him, go ahead and run another player outta town. Im sick of that BS. Can you imagine getting Drai a shooter (Hoffman) on his wing? He would score 60 with Drai
 
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Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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Man I hated Eakins. It was hard being an Oiler fan when he was here. I was at a game in Boston a few years ago and I was close to the bench. In the 3rd, Boston was beating us easily. During a stoppage in play, I yelled every expletive at him. I called him a a-hole, he sucked, and I even told him to fix his hair. I said your getting fired. What a dirty look he shot at me. I came up with the middle finger salute. The Bruin fans were even high fiving me.
The next week, Eakins was mercifully fired. You are welcome Oilernation, I would like to think I was a part of that.
It should be noted I hated Chiarelli as well

heh, because I sometimes have a good memory for these sorts of things I remember you stating all that here at the time. Some people called you out on it. But I figured Eakins had some coming. He certainly wasn't shy being abusive and derisive with others.
 

oljimmy

Registered User
May 9, 2013
1,081
787
The thing that occurs to me about Gagner is how dynamic and unpredictable he's been. It really makes the predictability of the Oilers' attack stand out like a sore thumb. I wonder how much of our inability to get it done this year has simply been down to advance scouting on the part of our opposition. When you know that 95% of the time the Oilers simply dump and chase (unless McDavid or Drai has it), and when you know that their best-case scenario there is a puck retrieval and a pass back to the point for an ineffectual wrister, you let the Oilers do that low percentage stuff alllll day. Gagner kind of disrupts that narrative, so far he's a player who might just make a speedy or creative play to get the puck to the net. Talk about a Spooner upgrade... yikes...
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,296
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Duck hunting
I'll comment on the Larsson situation. When you lose a defensive partner, you kinda lose 2 players. It takes too long for the dman to adjust to his new partner. Klefbom is very valuable to this team. To me, the core consists of McDavid, Drai, Nurse, Klefbom.
For people harping on Drai, they have to give it up. I am forever thankful to Buffalo for taking Reinhart. People, we have a COMPLETE STUD in Drai. He even has a mean streak in him. Our PP will be a thing of beauty with one addition. Drai is in the top 3 in the league on passing skills in my book. What he does on the wall and his strength, I shake my head in dis-belief. If people want to criticize him, go ahead and run another player outta town. Im sick of that BS. Can you imagine getting Drai a shooter (Hoffman) on his wing? He would score 60 with Drai

With a mediocre defenceman I could buy what you are stating in regards to Larsson. But with a heralded D that was brought in here at unprecedented expense of course I expect better, and I expect to hae a D that is good enough on his own to even carry a pairing and to be adaptable within any pairing. Even Darnell Nurse, and Russell are being expected to do that. Larsson himself has stated multiple times that he needs to be better. He just isn't doing that. At some point I should be able to expect some turnaround. Larsson has had sub optimal seasons this one and last. We can't have that for this an extended a period of time.
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
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heh, because I sometimes have a good memory for these sorts of things I remember you stating all that here at the time. Some people called you out on it. But I figured Eakins had some coming. He certainly wasn't shy being abusive and derisive with others.

I was there and have game book , tickets, and pictures to prove it. Quicker for me to go to Boston then Montreal. My 3 other buddies with me just shook there head. I had a few in me at the time and I was frustrated. I was a Kruger fan.
At the end of the game one of my buddies said "I take it you didn't like Eakins". The other buddy said "You figure? 17,500 other people figured that out"
 
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Oilers in NS

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Oct 11, 2017
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With a mediocre defenceman I could buy what you are stating in regards to Larsson. But with a heralded D that was brought in here at unprecedented expense of course I expect better, and I expect to hae a D that is good enough on his own to even carry a pairing and to be adaptable within any pairing. Even Darnell Nurse, and Russell are being expected to do that. Larsson himself has stated multiple times that he needs to be better. He just isn't doing that. At some point I should be able to expect some turnaround. Larsson has had sub optimal seasons this one and last. We can't have that for this an extended a period of time.

I wonder if his back is bothering him? I don't hate Larsson, I just think Chiarelli should have got much more for Hall. When the trade went down, I had a friend tell me we traded Hall for Larsson. Immediately I thought OEL and approved. I was dis-appointed in 2 mins
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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Duck hunting
The thing that occurs to me about Gagner is how dynamic and unpredictable he's been. It really makes the predictability of the Oilers' attack stand out like a sore thumb. I wonder how much of our inability to get it done this year has simply been down to advance scouting on the part of our opposition. When you know that 95% of the time the Oilers simply dump and chase (unless McDavid or Drai has it), and when you know that their best-case scenario there is a puck retrieval and a pass back to the point for an ineffectual wrister, you let the Oilers do that low percentage stuff alllll day. Gagner kind of disrupts that narrative, so far he's a player who might just make a speedy or creative play to get the puck to the net. Talk about a Spooner upgrade... yikes...

Gagner makes reads in real time, he is not a rote player. So what you state is on the money. That said Gagner also in offensive zone does have rote tendencies to move the puck downlow and to never doubt the puck being downlow. He's a no nonsense offensive zone player. Really good at having the puck, and in traffic, and moving it, but he really looks to around the net opportunity and more than most Oilers.

The understated part of his game is how good he is transitioning the puck up ice and gaining opponent zone. We were cheating entries and going offside lots because we only had 3 forwards in the lineup that had confidence gaining entry. Now we have 4. Gagner is so confident with the puck right now but more than that making so many informed decisions with the puck when he does have. it. He's creating well, and imaginatively.
 
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LaGu

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Jan 4, 2011
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I can't agree with this because that's a whole other gear. You can't sustain that type of play through 82 game regular season and no player, not even Connor McDavid, can. Plus that theres been several games where Draisaitl has shown this type of play. Really all of 2019 he has been carrying this club on his back.

In this instance "that player" would be the best player in hockey. Those expectations are a little high.

It seems odd that Drai has to be better than everybody to receive no criticism. Where is the similar level of critique regarding other players?

For instance even as you allude Connor McDavid has not been nearly as good this season taking NHL pts increase into account. This season might actually resemble his 3rd best season. But no criticism of that is seen.

Larsson has been questionable for two seasons now. I barely hear criticism of that. I'm one of the few even noting it. Larsson played like a lost child the whole time Klefbom was missing and he still hasn't recovered. Not that he was good before the Klefbom injury.
No you're not. It comes up relatively often. Two things I think are different though:
1) there is not much pushback, if posters start pushing back more join the discussion. I am pushing back at times because I've seen him get crapped on even after playing good games, often on those occasions more join in the critisizm.

The consistency is not there though, which is strange seeing as it's been a strenght of his in the past. That is not good enough.
2) Many have way higher expectations on a $8.5M fwd and second best player in the team. Especially when we need scoring. It's much easier to get down on someone where the bar is set so high as it is for Drai.

I've said it before and I think many agree with me: Larsson, even playing up and down as he has been, is not the problem of this team (neither is Drai of course). Even if you think he belongs on the 2nd pair it's still a decent contract.

Personally I also see something is off with him. Cannot tell if it's injuries or in his head. OEL had his worst season ever the season after his mother passed away, now I know many deal with these things so it's not an excuse, but something is obviously wrong. His best play imo was 16/17 playoffs, followed by his last two seasons in NJD (14/15-15/16). 16/17 reg was also not bad, but below his normal imo.
 
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foshizzle

Registered User
Feb 1, 2007
4,012
3,016
Oh, I know, but they looked so damn good in that stretch against some of the best teams in the NHL and it was for a good 12-13 game stretch too as there were some games before that 8-2 streak when they were vastly outplaying teams and deserved a better fate. Interestingly, this all happened with McDavid and Drai separate which has always been my preference.

Me as well. I hate the together, seems like they just look for each other and it just kills so many plays, plus McDavid doesn't get as many touches. When they are apart, Drai becomes a more controlling, dominant player- and McDavid tends to be more, well, McDavid. Gagner looked great on Connor's line as well.
 
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nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,291
20,671
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Part of the issue is the narrative. Its not true that Gagner never tried to step it up, or to improve. Notable improvement, in every statistic occurred in the Krueger season, and the season before that where Gagner numbers are impeccable on a bad club. However that was destroyed when Eakins came here. If anybody was disheartened by Eakins it was Gagner.

I can't imagine how you could state a player "can't be bothered to improve his game" and state that matter of fact and expect nobody to question that assumptive narrative.

Do you know if Gagner tried or not? I would dare say Krueger knew because Gagners role and importance on the team increased that season and including pk assignment. Gagner was very good at every facet of play that season and also the season prior.

“Impeccable”. Ok Replacement. Simmer down :laugh:

There’s a reason why he was traded for a bad contract and then traded for cap space twice in a very shortly after the time period you are describing. Every team, scout and GM around the league could easily see what you are obviously blind to because of your unwavering love for the player. I admire your dedication as much as I admire Gagner’s new found gumption.
 
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foshizzle

Registered User
Feb 1, 2007
4,012
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Gagner makes reads in real time, he is not a rote player. So what you state is on the money. That said Gagner also in offensive zone does have rote tendencies to move the puck downlow and to never doubt the puck being downlow. He's a no nonsense offensive zone player. Really good at having the puck, and in traffic, and moving it, but he really looks to around the net opportunity and more than most Oilers.

The understated part of his game is how good he is transitioning the puck up ice and gaining opponent zone. We were cheating entries and going offside lots because we only had 3 forwards in the lineup that had confidence gaining entry. Now we have 4. Gagner is so confident with the puck right now but more than that making so many informed decisions with the puck when he does have. it. He's creating well, and imaginatively.

Agreed on everything. We should have never let him go in the first place. The type of leader and player you need in the locker room in my opinion.
 
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CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,260
39,481
NYC
I'm pretty adamant now that Nuge and Drai should play together.

Much cheaper to find a winger for McDavid than one for Drai. Also Nuges defensive ability will help Draisaitl immensely in the long run. That and it pulls some focus away from McDavid

You're preaching to the choir my friend. I've been pushing for the RNH-Drai combo for about 3 years now and never understood why it was never tried until now.
McDavid-anybody and RNH-Drai is the best way to create a 2 line scoring threat.
 
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CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
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Gagner loves the city, hopes it's infectious.

I think if we find a legit top 6 scoring winger for McDavid. Gagner could be the third man on that line as long as he keeps up his hard working intelligent play.
 

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