Post-Game Talk: I guess 20 minutes is almost 60? Oilers lose 4-3.

MaxR11

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It's no coincidence that our best LINE is the one that always has Draisaitl on it

I love Connor, he is a great player, best in the works. But he does need to evolve his game to help drive the play. He fixes his defensive issues guy could increase his point totals like Drai has

Somewhere along the way connor let his overall game slide. I think he was actually decent in his first 2 years overall. I feel like in his third season he started to chase points and cheat more and conserve energy for points and it was a bad habit that appears to be hard to shake.

Ya, i mean it could very well be the injury plays a significant part but he does seem to be deferring a lot of the hard work to his linemates. I think he's just in a rut now and getting into bad habits that he needs to expunge from his game as quick as possible.

There's no question, if players stick with it and have patience and effort and grind, that playing strong defence as a five man unit will help quicken their pace and get everyone coordinated more and move up the ice together and create offence from strong defence. This is not a novel concept but it's hard work and requires patience and stick-to-it-ness.

We've seen Connor's line at times (without drai) play well and that's always when connor decides to play hard with pace and tighter as a five man unit instead of floating and cheating up ice, and away from the other 4. Everyone gets separated a bit more when this happens and their pace slows as they're looking for longer stretch passes.
 
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Missing smitty

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McDavids defensive game has always been below average. Even when he was playing with Maroon and Draisaitl, or when him and Draisaitl were clowning fools, they were very often on the wrong side of the puck still. I think even with all their goals scored together they still let a ton in. That said Connor can learn it.

And yes he does also need better wingers, both things can be true

That I can get behind.

I just hate the comparison right now. Draisaitl has the SIGNIFICANTLY better wingers, real wingers who can play.

It may end up that he's always a below average defensive player. He will need to learn that if he isn't doing things on D, then he damn well better make up for it in the O zone.
 

Missing smitty

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uh, no you need to grow up. i simply stated my opinions on connor's play. i wasn't even addressing you to start with and you just go on being a petulant child and attacking me because i'm criticizing the great connor. hey i have no problem if you don't agree with me but your aggressive response initially was uncalled for. you can't seem to disagree with class so i'm not going to treat you with any class either.

The first thing you always say when anyone ever contradicts you is that people won't criticize McDavid, except tons of people (including me) criticize his play. You just can't stand when people remind you that you aren't always right.
 

MaxR11

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The first thing you always say when anyone ever contradicts you is that people won't criticize McDavid, except tons of people (including me) criticize his play. You just can't stand when people remind you that you aren't always right.

no, i have no problems with disagreement. i have a problem when you start using terms like "obtuse a**" where it was completely uncalled for. and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean i'm wrong. We disagree. i believe strongly in culture and leadership, you, not so much. that's fine. that's your opinion. i don't go start attacking you for that. you just get triggered when you see my posts. maybe ignore me then.
 

Drivesaitl

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-45 on a team that had Larkin over -30?.....

Sorry, what? Where you getting that?

Larkin is -23 and was -20 at time of trade. Larkin also plays way more EV minutes and so of course has more susceptibility to the teams -goal differential. Larkin also had much harder minutes.
 

Missing smitty

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no, i have no problems with disagreement. i have a problem when you start using terms like "obtuse a**" where it was completely uncalled for. and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean i'm wrong. We disagree. i believe strongly in culture and leadership, you, not so much. that's fine. that's your opinion. i don't go start attacking you for that. you just get triggered when you see my posts. maybe ignore me then.

I'm sorry, I get annoyed at passive-agressive people who immediately attack people's knowledge on a forum when they were wrong in the first place. You do you.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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Because all other options hasnt work. And Tippet is not high on Haas. Therefore it would be so much fun if McDavid and Haas could play reasonable together. Because that could actually happens- Haas is used to European responsible Two-way hockey involving a lot to read in the game, and playing with McDavid takes a need to read the game very well.
McDavid and Haas is the only guys who hasnt been tried together.

I dont know why Nygård and McDavid didnt click, because they could.
ANd I don know why Haas and Draisaitl didnt click. Is Germany and Swiss not so close to each other as I were thinking...

They should be tried together. There is nothing at all to be lost. The AA aqustion - were fans could see, it will probably not work, even if it looks visually tempting to be a partner to McDavid -already looks like a dropped glove -so lets try something that could work instead.

This “Tippett isn’t high on Haas” narrative is a joke. A player earns his minutes but because Haas is a clear borderline NHLer it’s Tippetts fault. Sorry but that’s so wrong it’s laughable.

As for options haven’t worked Neal Kassian and McDavid were fine and all 3 missed significant time and all just returned recently so your wrong there as well.

Finally your theory that European hockey is 2 way responsible hockey is so wrong on so many levels it’s impossible to address it in a forum due to brevity forum posts require.

The rest of your post is just pure claptrap.

If Haas has top line talent he would be playing top 6 on the Oilers or one of the other 30 NHL teams by now.
 

MaxR11

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I'm sorry, I get annoyed at passive-agressive people who immediately attack people's knowledge on a forum when they were wrong in the first place. You do you.

lol, hypocrite much? i'm not sure how my response to your initial response (which i never asked you for in the first place) was attacking your knowledge? if YOU think i'm wrong then i know i'm right. there, not so passive aggressive there eh.
 

Missing smitty

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lol, hypocrite much? i'm not sure how my response to your initial response (which i never asked you for in the first place) was attacking your knowledge? if YOU think i'm wrong then i know i'm right. there, not so passive aggressive there eh.

I merely pointed out that you were wrong about a centers responsibility on the forecheck. You proceeded to tell me that I apparently only know Atom level hockey. You also then went on a tangent about how McDavid not trying made Neal not try. You were wrong on both accounts.

You clearly did not like being made aware that you were wrong.
 

MaxR11

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I merely pointed out that you were wrong about a centers responsibility on the forecheck. You proceeded to tell me that I apparently only know Atom level hockey. You also then went on a tangent about how McDavid not trying made Neal not try. You were wrong on both accounts.

You clearly did not like being made aware that you were wrong.

Uh, maybe friggin check the post history. I did not make that comment until you started attacking me, calling me names etc. PS. Being wrong in your eyes doesn't make me ACTUALLY wrong. How hypocritical. You ASSUME you're right. YOU'RE actually the one who thinks he's never wrong lol.

Also i NEVER said the center was the main forechecker. I said it's a collective effort and at some point in time the center definitely needs to put the work in to do his part and i feel connor wasn't.
 
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SwedishFire

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This “Tippett isn’t high on Haas” narrative is a joke. A player earns his minutes but because Haas is a clear borderline NHLer it’s Tippetts fault. Sorry but that’s so wrong it’s laughable.

As for options haven’t worked Neal Kassian and McDavid were fine and all 3 missed significant time and all just returned recently so your wrong there as well.

Finally your theory that European hockey is 2 way responsible hockey is so wrong on so many levels it’s impossible to address it in a forum due to brevity forum posts require.

The rest of your post is just pure claptrap.

If Haas has top line talent he would be playing top 6 on the Oilers or one of the other 30 NHL teams by now.

tss. When every other is tried, why not giving a friggin chance. When so many has failed, why not try. Haas is not a stupid player, I guess he just dont fits Tippets ideas. Otherwise he would have been traded prior deadline.

Neal Kassian McDavid maybe worked in the way not being outscored. But there werent that much scoring as wished. Neal hasnt scored a goal since the iceage by now.

Haas know some things about 2 way hockey. Its not accurate to not call him that, he may not have adjusted that hockey to NA style, but he knows the importance.

And he can skate.
So why not grumpy ?
 

Zerotonine

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Well... If the definition of a positional type goalie is a goalie who is in position to make the save? Then... I suppose so.

When there's a narrative out there, I like to check on it. There's this narrative out there that Smith was just letting the puck hit him, and that was creating chaos. I checked. Doesn't happen. In 2020, Smith has done an excellent job of controlling initial shots, they hit him, or he gloves it, and it's a stoppage. Obviously, on tips and screens you're going to have some challenges, but even on those he appears to be doing very well. The Oilers also are doing a better job of tying up net front in 2020, so it's all part and parcel.

There is very little chaos is Smiths game in the last 20 or so starts. Is he the greatest goalie ever? No. Has he been better than Koskinen? Lately, yes. He has been more controlled, and has let in fewer bad goals.

Is he the reason the Oilers lost? Not even a little.

I responded to a guy who says he stops everything he sees and basically said he was positional, yet a positional goalie doesnt have to see the puck to make a stop, he Is I'm "position" nu definition and the puck hits him 9 out 10 times
 

Zerotonine

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The defense in front of him didn't do him any favors, plus he made big stops too. People are way too quick to find a whipping boy

People aren't looking for a whipping boy, they are just questioning certain decision goal tending. Kosko literally steals us 2 points in dallas and is rewarded with the next v game off? Smith looked shaky.

Problem is smith is always getting benefit from tippet. And I bet he gets the start vs jackets tonight as well even tho kosko looked solid in relief. I also think this hurts kosko confidence because we see him play solid and then gets the pine and his next start he is atrocious
 

Mr Positive

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People aren't looking for a whipping boy, they are just questioning certain decision goal tending. Kosko literally steals us 2 points in dallas and is rewarded with the next v game off? Smith looked shaky.

Problem is smith is always getting benefit from tippet. And I bet he gets the start vs jackets tonight as well even tho kosko looked solid in relief. I also think this hurts kosko confidence because we see him play solid and then gets the pine and his next start he is atrocious
Koskinen and Smith have almost the same amount of starts though. The roles were reversed at one point, with Koskinen getting more starts for a good stretch. I think we will see Koskinen again. Tippett views 2 starting goalies as a big asset, and part of that is that goalies get hot and cold, and so you can go with the hot one while the other one sorts himself out.

I think right now Koskinen is probably the hot one. He was even very good in that game he let that soft goal in
 

Zerotonine

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Koskinen and Smith have almost the same amount of starts though. The roles were reversed at one point, with Koskinen getting more starts for a good stretch. I think we will see Koskinen again. Tippett views 2 starting goalies as a big asset, and part of that is that goalies get hot and cold, and so you can go with the hot one while the other one sorts himself out.

I think right now Koskinen is probably the hot one. He was even very good in that game he let that soft goal in

Your some what right, when one goalie struggled the other seemed to be on a heater. It's worked fairly well, there were only small stretches when both were struggling at the same time
 

replacement

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I responded to a guy who says he stops everything he sees and basically said he was positional, yet a positional goalie doesnt have to see the puck to make a stop, he Is I'm "position" nu definition and the puck hits him 9 out 10 times

Well... Then yes, Smith has been in good enough position where 9/10 times, the puck hits him. More than that lately. And he's made plenty of more difficult saves too.

Here's all of the goals scored on Mike Smith in 2020:

1: Unchecked man in front, bangs it home.
2: Tipped shot.
3: Penalty shot.
4: Tippet shot.
5: Cross seam, wide open one timer.
6: Breakaway.
7: Deflection off Nurse.
8: Powerplay snipe by Matthews. CLEAN LOOK
9: Rebound, unchecked in slot. BAD REBOUND
10: Right in the slot, screened.
11: Forsberg lacrosse
12: Unchecked man in front
13: Hall spin and fire. SCREEN ONLY
14: Powerplay, great save, unchecked man at net front.
15: Powerplay, OEL point shot. CLEAN LOOK
16: Deflection off Larsson.
17: Unchecked man slot one timer.
18: Unchecked man, completely left alone.
19: Defenceman beat, 2 on 1, man right in front.
20: Tkachuk unchecked one timer in slot.
21: Horrible giveaway Bear, Lindholm unchecked, banks it in.
22: Screened, tipped, bang in from the slot, unchecked man.
23: Screened, perfect tip in.
24: Perfect cross seam pass, one timer.
25: 2 on 1, Toews one-timer.
26: Perfect cross seam pass, one timer.
27: Patrick Maroon stuff job. BAD POST COVERAGE
28: Breakaway
29: Seeing eye shot, screened. DECENT LOOK
30: Aho breakaway
31: Aho one-time unchecked in the slot
32: Bergeron breakaway
33: Pastrnak breakaway
34: Powerplay Kopitar unchecked in slot of deflection net front
35: 2 on 1 Brown snipe CLEAN LOOK
36: Milano unchecked chip shot
37: Unchecked cross seam one-timer in the slot
38: Henrique all alone in front
39: Powerplay net front tip in
40: Breakaway
41: Bear walked, cross seam one timer
42: Josi point shot CLEAN LOOK
43: AA giveaway, Jarnkrok completely alone in front
44: Unchecked man, makes first and second save
45: Pat Kane unchecked, all the time in the world
46: Toews wraparound after multiple cross seams
47: Debrincat screened shot SCREEN ONLY
48: Debrincat screened shot SCREEN ONLY

So out of 48 goals:
  • 5 of them were goals you could reasonably say Smith got a good look at.
  • 3 of them were goals where the only factor was the screen.
Do you notice what's lacking on this list?
  • 0 goals that are clean shots on the rush. Not a single one.
  • Only 1 goal that could be considered a bad rebound. Just 1.
  • 0 goals that are just straight up horrible goals.
Remember that Pacioretty goal where he just skated in and put it through Koskinen? Smith hasn't given up a single goal like that in 18 games.

Remember that flubbed backhand goal Koskinen let in against Minny? No cross ice movement, no nothing, just a routine "let it hit you" type thing that squeezes through? Smith hasn't let in a single one of those in 18 games.

That's consistency.

Is Smith the best goalie out there? Probably not. But he's been damn good in 2020, he hasn't given up bad goals, and he deserves the net right now, any time the coach wants to put him in there.
 
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JSlick

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People aren't looking for a whipping boy, they are just questioning certain decision goal tending. Kosko literally steals us 2 points in dallas and is rewarded with the next v game off? Smith looked shaky.

Problem is smith is always getting benefit from tippet. And I bet he gets the start vs jackets tonight as well even tho kosko looked solid in relief. I also think this hurts kosko confidence because we see him play solid and then gets the pine and his next start he is atrocious

then it's not Smith's fault. He made some big saves too, the Oilers just got outplayed for 2 periods in that game.
 

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tss. When every other is tried, why not giving a friggin chance. When so many has failed, why not try. Haas is not a stupid player, I guess he just dont fits Tippets ideas. Otherwise he would have been traded prior deadline.

Neal Kassian McDavid maybe worked in the way not being outscored. But there werent that much scoring as wished. Neal hasnt scored a goal since the iceage by now.

Haas know some things about 2 way hockey. Its not accurate to not call him that, he may not have adjusted that hockey to NA style, but he knows the importance.

And he can skate.
So why not grumpy ?

Nobody said he was stupid. But your theory that he doesn't fit Tippets ideas is completely ridiculous.

1 - He is a lifelong centre, not a winger. To switch positions in beer league or EA Sports is easy. To do it in the NHL is not, especially in the middle of a playoff run where you dont just "try" things.
2 - So many have not failed, that is a false narrative. His wingers have been Draisatl and Kassian for the first part of the year and Neal and Kassian for the 2nd. No failures. What happened is Neal and McDavid both got serious injuries and Kassian got himself suspended for 9 games. His other wingers: Chaisson (career year), Maroon (career year), Lucic (who did better than with any other Oiler). So you can put that "so many have failed" one into the grave.
3 - There is NO difference between European and North American hockey other than the size of the rink. To suggest otherwise is not accurate.
4 - He can skate yes. He doesn't have the overall talent, hands, brain and confidence to roll with McDavid - or he ALREADY would have been playing with him.
5 - He played at least 2 games at wing earlier this year and was pushed off the puck constantly.

I could go on but that is the Coles Notes version of why Haas is not going to be playing with McDavid now or at anytime in the future.
 

SwedishFire

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Nobody said he was stupid. But your theory that he doesn't fit Tippets ideas is completely ridiculous.

1 - He is a lifelong centre, not a winger. To switch positions in beer league or EA Sports is easy. To do it in the NHL is not, especially in the middle of a playoff run where you dont just "try" things.
2 - So many have not failed, that is a false narrative. His wingers have been Draisatl and Kassian for the first part of the year and Neal and Kassian for the 2nd. No failures. What happened is Neal and McDavid both got serious injuries and Kassian got himself suspended for 9 games. His other wingers: Chaisson (career year), Maroon (career year), Lucic (who did better than with any other Oiler). So you can put that "so many have failed" one into the grave.
3 - There is NO difference between European and North American hockey other than the size of the rink. To suggest otherwise is not accurate.
4 - He can skate yes. He doesn't have the overall talent, hands, brain and confidence to roll with McDavid - or he ALREADY would have been playing with him.
5 - He played at least 2 games at wing earlier this year and was pushed off the puck constantly.

I could go on but that is the Coles Notes version of why Haas is not going to be playing with McDavid now or at anytime in the future.

I wouldnt call MCDavid - Neal combo a whole success. But I hope/wish for that outcome.
I know in here, that saying that Draisaitl is sometimes a better player is like killing someone.
But Im leaning to go with this. He adepts better to others. He can shoot and pass from anywhere, and make his linemates better in an easier way.

And - I dont really know if its totally true - but in Canada the junior hockey is divided more in toe roles, than european hockey. And I would bet that McDavid has been given the star role, where the rest of his team always fight to get him the puck, and McDavid is dictating the play, and all others has to read him off.
Draisaitl hasnt been given a star role, he has learned to play every phase of the game.

Just my take.
 

Stoneman89

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People aren't looking for a whipping boy, they are just questioning certain decision goal tending. Kosko literally steals us 2 points in dallas and is rewarded with the next v game off? Smith looked shaky.

Problem is smith is always getting benefit from tippet. And I bet he gets the start vs jackets tonight as well even tho kosko looked solid in relief. I also think this hurts kosko confidence because we see him play solid and then gets the pine and his next start he is atrocious
Just stop already. No one is being treated unfairly here. Smith went on a nice heater, and when you have a goalie that does that, you tend to ride him more than the other guy, especially in a tight race. If Koski gets hot, then Tipp will play him more, but we have a super condensed schedule now, so the load will have to be shared somewhat. It's all about getting wins at this point, not massaging someone's feelings.
 

Spawn

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Just stop already. No one is being treated unfairly here. Smith went on a nice heater, and when you have a goalie that does that, you tend to ride him more than the other guy, especially in a tight race. If Koski gets hot, then Tipp will play him more, but we have a super condensed schedule now, so the load will have to be shared somewhat. It's all about getting wins at this point, not massaging someone's feelings.
Just interesting to note that over the span of Smith's "heater" he has a .913 sv% and a GAA of 2.73. Over that same stretch Mikko Koskinen has a .920 sv% and a GAA of 2.64.

Mike Smith is just lucky enough to have gotten more run support than Koskinen has over this stretch. Neither are particularly good in my mind, but Koskinen has been the better goaltender all season long.
 

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