I did not know that: Trade between WHA and NHL teams

[Michel Beauchamp]

Looking at Steve Durbano's stats (don't ask...), I came upon this tidbit of info:

Vaclav Nedomansky traded to Detroit by Birmingham (WHA) with Tim Sheehy for the loan of Steve Durbano and Dave Hanson and future considerations, November 18, 1977.

I wasn't aware that there ever were a trade between the WHA and NHL.
Is that the only one?

Click to read more...

 

[cyris]

bump.
Never heard this. Any one else know anything about this or other trades like it?

 

[rinksteak]

two other trades between the leagues

Rockies traded Randy Rota to Edmonton of WHA for cash, NOV 1976.

Rangers traded Bill Goldsworthy to Indianapolis of WHA for Frank Spring, NOV 1977.

 

[Killion]

Well isnt this interesting. First Ive ever heard of it and I wonder how that mightve worked. To the best of my knowledge there certainly wasnt any working agreement between the two leagues, and the players themselves would have had to have approved such a trade as they'd have to then sign a new Contract be it WHA or NHL.

 

[rinksteak]

one more

Also the North Stars traded Pierre Jarry and Chris Ahrens to Edmonton (WHA) for "future considerations", March 1978.

I don't think Lou Nanne ever expected anyone to come back to Minnesota. He was probably just getting rid of contracts on a cash strapped team before the merger with Cleveland.

 

[rinksteak]

another NHL - WHA trade

This may have been the first:

February 1975, Maple Leafs trade rights to Bill Butters to Minnesota Fighting Saints for cash.

And here's another:

December 1976, Atlanta Flames trade "Cowboy" Bill Flett to Edmonton Oilers for cash.

 

[Theokritos]

This may have been the first:

February 1975, Maple Leafs trade rights to Bill Butters to Minnesota Fighting Saints for cash.

Wow, that bump! Almost two years after your last post you come back with the results of your research? Now that's what I call dedication!

 

[pnep]

This may have been the first:

February 1975, Maple Leafs trade rights to Bill Butters to Minnesota Fighting Saints for cash.

nope

Butch Deadmarsh: December, 1974: Traded to Vancouver (WHA) by Kansas City for cash, December 1974.

 

[tjcurrie]

Also the North Stars traded Pierre Jarry and Chris Ahrens to Edmonton (WHA) for "future considerations", March 1978.

I don't think Lou Nanne ever expected anyone to come back to Minnesota. He was probably just getting rid of contracts on a cash strapped team before the merger with Cleveland.

This is true.

After the merger, the North Stars had 65 players under contract worth a total of $4.7 million. Lou had to get that down to $2.2 million, by order of the Gunds.

He started buying out and making trades, and in about a month he shed $2.2 million, then shed the remaining soon after.

Nanne also decided to sign some free agents and in turn lose more players via compensation. He signed defenseman Gary Sargent from L.A., and then won the arbitration case and handed over Rick Hampton, Steve Jensen, and Dave Gardiner to the Kings, when they actually had asked for Gilles Meloche and Greg Smith.

That was actually the very first arbitration case for compensation in NHL history.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

The thread that would not die !

Started in January 2011.

Still going in October 2015 (even if there is only 10 posts).

That might be a record for HF.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Looking at Vaclav Nedomansky's page on Hockey Reference, I noticed that he was involved in a trade between Birmingham (WHA) and Detroit (NHL) in November 1977 (Traded to Detroit by Birmingham (WHA) with Tim Sheehy for the loan of Steve Durbano and Dave Hanson and future considerations).

Is that the only trade between WHA and NHL teams ?

PS: Just saw that Tim Sheehy was sold later that same season by Detroit to New England (WHA).

 

[SabbathBloodySabbath]

There were several more found here, usually for cash or future considerations:
I did not know that: Trade between WHA and NHL teams

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Cowboy Bill Flett was dealt to Edmonton from Atlanta in 1976.

 

[tony d]

Quite interesting to see trades between teams in 2 rival leagues. Something you wouldn't expect given the dynamics of both leagues.

 

[Sanf]

I remember doing bit of research of this when I tried to figure how Matti Hagman could been sold to Nordiques from Boston Bruins.

This was certainly bit of grey area.

Matti Hagman was "sold" directly to Nordiques. Ziegler approved it from some reason. Technically if player left league he had to be waived (so offered to other clubs). In Hagman´s case this wasn´t done.

Lot of WHA teams were in financial trouble. Nedomansky and Sheehy had big contracts. I have seen rumours that Red Wings gave 5 player list to Bulls to select the return. It was rumoured that Danny Grant would have been on the table. But Bulls decided to pick to players with the lowest salary and who could clear the NHL waivers. Nedomansky and Sheehy had such a big contracts that no WHA team wanted those. So they cleared WHA waivers and the trade happened.

edit. Sheehy though interstinly was again in WHA when Red Wings did waive him (Like OP mentions). Hard to say the reason for that. Need to make research.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

The thread that would not die !

Started in January 2011.

Still going in October 2015 (even if there is only 10 posts).

That might be a record for HF.

And it was referred to in November 2019.

PS: I honestly did not remember asking the same question 106 months ago...

 

[crobro]

Wasn’t Blaine Stoughton traded to the WHA?

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Wasn’t Blaine Stoughton traded to the WHA?

No he was not. Stoughton jumped to Cincinnati in the summer of 1976 after splitting time between Toronto and CHL Oklahoma City the previous year.

 

[Theokritos]

Quite interesting to see trades between teams in 2 rival leagues. Something you wouldn't expect given the dynamics of both leagues.

It also opens legal questions. I bet the contracs the NHL players had signed didn't provide for the possibility they could be traded to another league, so any trade of that kind would have been subject to agreement by the player, as opposed to trades within the NHL.

 

[Sanf]

It also opens legal questions. I bet the contracs the NHL players had signed didn't provide for the possibility they could be traded to another league, so any trade of that kind would have been subject to agreement by the player, as opposed to trades within the NHL.

I would believe so. In truth I do believe that the contract couldn´t been tranfered as such. But in this case it seems that Red Wings was ready to pay Nedomansky´s big contract. Durbano and Hanson was more of trick to make it look like an actual trade.

The Windsor Star - Nov 18, 1977
Ellis is director of Central registry for the NHL.

"I don´t call it a trade," he said. "I can´t. It´s not a trade as far as the NHL is concerned.

"The league doesn´t regocnize it as a trade, but it´s happened. I can´t stop it.

"The newspapers are calling it a trade, so anything I say is after the fact. But it can´t be a trade because we don´t trade with WHA.

"I don´t like it, but there is nothing wrong in the way it´s being handled."

So if we would go with actual NHL transactions we could say thats just a mistake in Hockey Reference. In truth Red Wings waived (and released) Durbano and Hanson and signed Nedomansky and Sheehy as free agents.(?)

Hagman´s case is more curious because he was "sold" or "loaned" to Nordiques. Hagman would have been most likely claimed by another NHL club, but with Zieglers permision Bruins did not lose the rights to Hagman.

 

[Theokritos]

I would believe so. In truth I do believe that the contract couldn´t been tranfered as such. But in this case it seems that Red Wings was ready to pay Nedomansky´s big contract. Durbano and Hanson was more of trick to make it look like an actual trade.

The Windsor Star - Nov 18, 1977
Ellis is director of Central registry for the NHL.

"I don´t call it a trade," he said. "I can´t. It´s not a trade as far as the NHL is concerned.

"The league doesn´t regocnize it as a trade, but it´s happened. I can´t stop it.

"The newspapers are calling it a trade, so anything I say is after the fact. But it can´t be a trade because we don´t trade with WHA.

"I don´t like it, but there is nothing wrong in the way it´s being handled."

So if we would go with actual NHL transactions we could say thats just a mistake in Hockey Reference. In truth Red Wings waived (and released) Durbano and Hanson and signed Nedomansky and Sheehy as free agents.(?)

Right. A "deal" would be a more fitting term here than a "trade".

 

[Sanf]

This was a very brief research on some of the players mentioned in this thread. So didn´t check that many sources. Pardon if there are mistakes.

Butch Deadmarsh had signed a contract to Vancouver Blazers for 75-76 season, but planned to get there even before. Originally he was a holdout from 74-75 Scouts camp because of that. There were threads to trade him to a another club. Scouts suspended him. Apparently some sort of brief truce was made and Deadmarsh shortly played with Scouts. In late November Scouts put him through waivers and sold him to Blazers (who wanted to claim a player who didn´t want to play in NHL).

Bill Butters was with Maple Leafs farm team in Oklahoma, but left there without permision to his hometown St.Paul. Wasn´t going back to Oklahoma. Signed multi-year contract with Fighting Saints starting from 75-76. Apparently some sort of compensation was given to Maple Leafs so he could play already in 74-75.

Atlanta Flames was in slight financial trouble. Bill Flett had been waived, but no team claimed him. He was given option to go to their minor league team or to WHA. He went to Oilers and some sort of compensation was given.

Can´t find any spesifics in Rota deal. Apparently he was demoted to CHL early in the season. He was then dealt to Oilers. He was already in Edmonton waiting if he would clear the NHL Waivers.

Wonder if there is a case were player moving to WHA was actually claimed from waivers.

 

[adsfan]

This was a very brief research on some of the players mentioned in this thread. So didn´t check that many sources. Pardon if there are mistakes.

Butch Deadmarsh had signed a contract to Vancouver Blazers for 75-76 season, but planned to get there even before. Originally he was a holdout from 74-75 Scouts camp because of that. There were threads to trade him to a another club. Scouts suspended him. Apparently some sort of brief truce was made and Deadmarsh shortly played with Scouts. In late November Scouts put him through waivers and sold him to Blazers (who wanted to claim a player who didn´t want to play in NHL).

Bill Butters was with Maple Leafs farm team in Oklahoma, but left there without permision to his hometown St.Paul. Wasn´t going back to Oklahoma. Signed multi-year contract with Fighting Saints starting from 75-76. Apparently some sort of compensation was given to Maple Leafs so he could play already in 74-75.

Atlanta Flames was in slight financial trouble. Bill Flett had been waived, but no team claimed him. He was given option to go to their minor league team or to WHA. He went to Oilers and some sort of compensation was given.

Can´t find any spesifics in Rota deal. Apparently he was demoted to CHL early in the season. He was then dealt to Oilers. He was already in Edmonton waiting if he would clear the NHL Waivers.

Wonder if there is a case were player moving to WHA was actually claimed from waivers.

The OKC Blazers were an affiliate of the Bruins for most of the 1970s.

From 1978 to 1981, the Stars were an affiliate of the Minnesota North Stars.

Oklahoma City Stars hockey team statistics and history at hockeydb.com

 

[wetcoast]

Right. A "deal" would be a more fitting term here than a "trade".

To the general hockey fan this would be a distinction without a difference.

Also in the era we are talking about "the seventies" players would have been less likely to take any legal route as it was very much a simpler time back then, at least in professional North American circles.

 

[Sanf]

The OKC Blazers were an affiliate of the Bruins for most of the 1970s.

From 1978 to 1981, the Stars were an affiliate of the Minnesota North Stars.

Oklahoma City Stars hockey team statistics and history at hockeydb.com

You are correct in that they were Bruins affiliate for rather long time, but I think starting from 73 they were farm club for Toronto and then for Rockies in 76-77.