I Cannot See Buffalo Missing the Playoffs Next Year

[MarkusKetterer]

I hesitate to say Buffalo "got better". They lost more than they gained this offseason. Taylor Hall does not offset losing Kahun and also gaining the black hole known as Cody Eakin.

So, uh, Hall = Kahun? Or Kahun > Hall?

 

[nbwingsfan]

They lost Kahun and replaced him with Hall, who looked like utter crap in Arizona (especially in the postseason). They traded Marcus Johansson for the fossilized remains of Eric Staal. They lost Larsson, who's known as a very good fourth liner, to the Coyotes for nothing, and got Toby Rieder, Matt Irwin and Brandon Davidson. Not to mention obtaining the defensive nightmare that is Cody Eakin.

Ullmark is no Freddy Andersen and Hutton is a mere shell of himself; spending their season against teams like Philly, Washington, Pittsburgh, the Islanders and Boston is gonna be hell for a team without solid blueliners and a mediocre goalie tandem.

Acting like switching Kahun for Hall isnt a MASSIVE upgrade really speaks for how small your point is here.

The shell of Staal is still a better player than Johansson. They lost a 4th liner, and replaced him with a 3rd liner in Eakin. Listing the goalies they had last year isnt a loss.. its just staying the same there.

On paper they are very clearly a better hockey team this year and thats not really debatable. Youre now changing your argument. Having to play in a very tough division isnt the same as coming into the year with a worse team like you originally stated

 

[Old Navy Goat]

So, uh, Hall = Kahun? Or Kahun > Hall?

It's amazing how much they're going to miss Kahun after he managed to play a whopping 6 games for Buffalo. I think a season of Hall >>>>>>>> 6 games of Kahun

 

[nbwingsfan]

It's amazing how much they're going to miss Kahun after he managed to play a whopping 6 games for Buffalo. I think a season of Hall >>>>>>>> 6 games of Kahun

Nevermind that even if Kahun played a full season, it's Hall >>>>> Kahun

 

[Shootica]

I certainly did not click on their thread expecting a debate over whether Taylor Hall or Dominik Kahun is better.

Come on guys.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I was going to congratulate you because I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.

[mod]

I get you are mad at Hall but he more than makes up for the loss of Larsson and Kahun. He is also far from the only thing coming in.

Where were the Sabres ever mentioned as clearly the "most improved team"?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

It's amazing how much they're going to miss Kahun after he managed to play a whopping 6 games for Buffalo. I think a season of Hall >>>>>>>> 6 games of Kahun

Kahun is about to go off though. He’s gonna lead the league in scoring for the next 4 years!!

I think he can really help that McDavid guy take the next step.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I certainly did not click on their thread expecting a debate over whether Taylor Hall or Dominik Kahun is better.

Come on guys.

It’s not a debate though. They’re at least equal.

 

[Satanphonehome]

No, they might be bad because their goalies and defense are awful.

The Rangers were close to a playoff team with their winning streak, and got better this off-season. Buffalo got better this off-season but were not close to a playoff team before.

The Rangers traded Lundqvist, Fast and Staal for Lafreniere and Jack Johnson and got better? Expecting a heckuva lot out of the kid early, I take it?

The Rangers allowed 222 goals last year, the Sabres allowed 217, yet it is the Sabres who have awful defence and goalies?

Like I said earlier, there are some preconceived notions here that aren’t necessarily born out by the facts.

I hesitate to say Buffalo "got better". They lost more than they gained this offseason. Taylor Hall does not offset losing Kahun and also gaining the black hole known as Cody Eakin.

I know others have already pointed this out, but this is indefensible. Kahun played 6 games for Buffalo, who won one of those games. His best season is 37 points. Hall’s worst is 37 (in 33 games).

 

[GOALOFSSON]

So like I said, an upgrade. Im giving them props and you guys still dont like it. I still dont see how they are not contenders though in a much tougher division.

So lets assume Skinner gets Staal/Reinhart over Johansen/Sobotka. An obvious upgrade there, but he now loses his pp1 time right? He was on pace for 32 points, albeit a low shooting % to go along there, which hopefully turns around, but no guarantees there. So better ES linemates and no PP1 time and all of a sudden hes on pace for 50-60 again? I expect him to improve from 19-20, but probably to a 20-20 pace. If he gets Eichel, then maybe he can bounce back to 35+g.

I like Eakin fine, but are we pretending like he turns the 2nd worst PK into league average? Really? Losing Larsson will be more apparent here and across overall D in general. Insane to see, but Larsson, Johansen, Sobotka, Okposo, and Vesey were the only Sabres that had a positive corsi against "elite" competition. So what is the plan now to shut down opposing teams big guns? Just outscore them? Ok, well see how that goes.

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Cozens is the wild card that could make a huge difference if he pans out. But do we even know if he's going to make the team? I would have liked to see the Sabres keep him off the WJC roster like Lafrenniere and Hughes. He isnt a lock to make the team yet and given the screwups with Nylander and Mittlestadt, it may be wise to leave him down for another year.

I like Ruotsa if he comes over and stays up with the Sabres, but why are we assuming anything out of Thompson. Sure, the signing was literally no risk, but all of a sudden were assuming hell figure it out?

You've done this thing before. You aren't giving us props you are doing the bare minimum. Of course you said we upgraded our offense because you can't exactly say otherwise, our yotes friend here tried. You still continue to underrate the offense (and defense, the entire team) even though you are forced to admit that it did improve. I also remember what you were trying to claim from the defensemen thread (Dahlin, Makar, ect.) too. Face it, you don't give the Sabres enough credit and it will be obvious this season.

Skinner, another Sabre you continue to heavily underrate. He is only 28 and there is absolutely no reason to think that he is going to fall off as hard as you think. I expect 25-35g and about 20-25a, guess we'll see.

Sure some forwards left that maybe had decent stats in that area but there are still new ones coming in so we will see how they do. You also underrate our defense overall. Dahlin could also see some pk time and Joker is young and improving too.

Mitts and Nylander have no business in a Cozens discussion as they are so clearly different players. Some articles about the type of work Cozens has put in, something the other two never did. He also has size and speed that they lack on top of his work ethic. I can't see him not being on the team tbh. You'll get a good look in a couple of days.

Yes Ruotsalainen looks nice, but why on earth would we not expect anything from Tage? By all accounts he looked good in the AHL and got injured in his first Sabres game for the season. Has also put in work in the extended off season and there is an article on the Sabres board posted recently (good ones for Cozens and Olofsson too), I think he is at ~228lbs now. He is a tall guy finally filling out his frame.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Where were the Sabres ever mentioned as clearly the "most improved team"?

Well there was a thread where Sabres were predominantly the leading choice if I remember, but outside of what hf thinks, how aren't they?

I dare you to find a team that comes close, again save for the Rangers who do have Laf/Shest and improvments from Kaako and Fox.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Rangers traded Lundqvist, Fast and Staal for Lafreniere and Jack Johnson and got better? Expecting a heckuva lot out of the kid early, I take it?

The Rangers allowed 222 goals last year, the Sabres allowed 217, yet it is the Sabres who have awful defence and goalies?

Like I said earlier, there are some preconceived notions here that aren’t necessarily born out by the facts.



I know others have already pointed this out, but this is indefensible. Kahun played 6 games for Buffalo, who won one of those games. His best season is 37 points. Hall’s worst is 37 (in 33 games).

Umm ... What?

Yes the Rangers lost by far the worst of their 3 goalies last season, Fast who was a scratch and a 4th liner and Staal who was their #7D and a detriment to their team most nights.

They got actively better just by not having Staal and Lundquist on their team and Laf should quite easily be a much better player than Fast from day 1.

 

[Satanphonehome]

I dare you to find a team that comes close, again save for the Rangers who do have Laf/Shest and improvments from Kaako and Fox.

Thinking that a freshly drafted teenager will have a bigger impact than a 29-year-old three years removed from an MVP season, while expecting a rookie goalie to be a top-5 starter is the most HFBoards thing ever.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Umm ... What?

Yes the Rangers lost by far the worst of their 3 goalies last season, Fast who was a scratch and a 4th liner and Staal who was their #7D and a detriment to their team most nights.

They got actively better just by not having Staal and Lundquist on their team and Laf should quite easily be a much better player than Fast from day 1.

Fast averaged more than 16 minutes a night for the Ranger, and was one of their more reliable defensive players. Johnson is one of the few d-men bashed as much as Staal was.

Lafreniere and Shesterkin are excellent talents. How many 1st overall picks have played a key role for a playoff team as a rookie in this century? How about rookie goalies?

Start with Binnington. How many more can you name?

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Thinking that a freshly drafted teenager will have a bigger impact than a 29-year-old three years removed from an MVP season, while expecting a rookie goalie to be a top-5 starter is the most HFBoards thing ever.

Not sure if you quoted the wrong post but I said none of that.

 

[93LEAFS]

Fast averaged more than 16 minutes a night for the Ranger, and was one of their more reliable defensive players. Johnson is one of the few d-men bashed as much as Staal was.

Lafreniere and Shesterkin are excellent talents. How many 1st overall picks have played a key role for a playoff team as a rookie in this century? How about rookie goalies?

Start with Binnington. How many more can you name?

1st overall picks? Off the top of my head Hischier, Matthews, and MacKinnon since 2013. Matthews is the only one who was his team's best player, but the other two were key contributors in top 6 roles. So 3 of the last 5 forwards taken 1OA (MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, Hischier, and Hughes).

As for goalies, most are eased into NHL starting whenever possible. Carey Price was key for MTL in 2007-08 and Steve Mason in 2010/11.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So if the Canadian division doesn't happen and Buffalo goes back in the Atlantic they have no chance they aren't better than Toronto, Tampa, Boston or Montreal and they aren't better than Pittsburgh Washington Philadelphia the Rangers or NYI

The Atlantic would be better for them, but not by much

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Where were the Sabres ever mentioned as clearly the "most improved team"?

They aren't.

They still have glaring holes on both the back end and in net.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

So if the Canadian division doesn't happen and Buffalo goes back in the Atlantic they have no chance they aren't better than Toronto, Tampa, Boston or Montreal and they aren't better than Pittsburgh Washington Philadelphia the Rangers or NYI

The Atlantic would be better for them, but not by much

You've been busy putting the Sabres down lately. I don't have trouble seeing us ahead of Montreal.

They aren't.

They still have glaring holes on both the back end and in net.

Question mark in net sure, not really on D.

You're welcome to attempt to find these teams that improved more.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Fast averaged more than 16 minutes a night for the Ranger, and was one of their more reliable defensive players. Johnson is one of the few d-men bashed as much as Staal was.

Lafreniere and Shesterkin are excellent talents. How many 1st overall picks have played a key role for a playoff team as a rookie in this century? How about rookie goalies?

Start with Binnington. How many more can you name?

1. Have never called them a playoff team.

2. Almost every 1st overall comes in immediately as a better player than Fast. That's ridiculous to say otherwise. If Lafreniere is a worse player than Fast then its a major letdown of a season.

3. How many rookie goalies have played better than Lundqvist did last season? A wholeeeee bunch. Nevermind that Georgiev has already been the better goalie than Henrik the last two seasons, and Shesterkin is even better.

4. Arguing who is better between Staal/Johnson is like arguing between diarrhea or violently puking. They're both awful and neither is wanted. Its a wash at best.
Add in how many key young players should have much better seasons and its not really arguable that they got worse.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You've done this thing before. You aren't giving us props you are doing the bare minimum. Of course you said we upgraded our offense because you can't exactly say otherwise, our yotes friend here tried. You still continue to underrate the offense (and defense, the entire team) even though you are forced to admit that it did improve. I also remember what you were trying to claim from the defensemen thread (Dahlin, Makar, ect.) too. Face it, you don't give the Sabres enough credit and it will be obvious this season.

Skinner, another Sabre you continue to heavily underrate. He is only 28 and there is absolutely no reason to think that he is going to fall off as hard as you think. I expect 25-35g and about 20-25a, guess we'll see.

Sure some forwards left that maybe had decent stats in that area but there are still new ones coming in so we will see how they do. You also underrate our defense overall. Dahlin could also see some pk time and Joker is young and improving too.

Mitts and Nylander have no business in a Cozens discussion as they are so clearly different players. Some articles about the type of work Cozens has put in, something the other two never did. He also has size and speed that they lack on top of his work ethic. I can't see him not being on the team tbh. You'll get a good look in a couple of days.

Yes Ruotsalainen looks nice, but why on earth would we not expect anything from Tage? By all accounts he looked good in the AHL and got injured in his first Sabres game for the season. Has also put in work in the extended off season and there is an article on the Sabres board posted recently (good ones for Cozens and Olofsson too), I think he is at ~228lbs now. He is a tall guy finally filling out his frame.

I know you follow me around and Im sure youve seen me get into arguments where I've said I could see Eichel/Hall putting up McDavid/Drais numbers and everyone laughed me out of the thread. I give them props where they deserve it, but rip them where they dont. I think thats pretty logical and you dont like when I rip them, then prove me wrong. In another thread (I think az goalie proposal) I proved via stats that the Sabres defense was pretty awful all around and here also that the Sabres offense was bad defensively. And then they got rid of any Sabre forward that was decent defensively. So why is it crazy to assume that overall they could take a step back still. Tougher competition, they'll score more goals, but also let up in goals.

Skinner, I think sucks, and is by far one of the worst value players in the league (proven). And this is mainly because of his cap hit. If he was $4.5M, I'd love him. Can he bounce back? IMO with Eichel and PP1, yes. Will he get those opportunities? Doubt it. So why is it crazy for me to think he will only slightly improve off of last years career worst season?

I believe in Cozens, but do not believe in Sabres management to get the most out of him. Theyve proven to be awful at developing players. Guilty until proven innocent. If they get Cozens right, then sure, ill get on board with future prospects not selected in the top 3.

Tage. A wild card, but IMO a guy who needs talent around him to succeed. He will not get that on the 3rd-4th line UNLESS the Sabres actually give Cozens a chance as a 3C and dont rush him.

Well there was a thread where Sabres were predominantly the leading choice if I remember, but outside of what hf thinks, how aren't they?

I dare you to find a team that comes close, again save for the Rangers who do have Laf/Shest and improvments from Kaako and Fox.

Most improved team in offseason debated

Ill leave it to the experts.

I think the Sabres were so bad that sure they improved, but not enoguh to make a dent anywhere and well be hoping we get good returns for Staal and Hall at the deadline, then cross our fingers Hall considers coming back. They improved offensively, took a step back defensively, and changed nothing goal. Well see where they end up, but I still think theyre at the bottom of their new division and would only be ahead of Ott/Det in a normal division with Mtl being arguable.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You've been busy putting the Sabres down lately. I don't have trouble seeing us ahead of Montreal.



Question mark in net sure, not really on D.

You're welcome to attempt to find these teams that improved more.

It's your goaltending you have the weakest goalie tandem in the east

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I like the look of their offense but there are question marks on defense and in goal. If Dahlin can take the next step and anchor at least an average blueline and the goaltenders punch above their weight good things can happen. They should score a lot of goals though.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

It's your goaltending you have the weakest goalie tandem in the east

2nd worst. Red Wings.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I think the Sabres were so bad that sure they improved, but not enoguh to make a dent anywhere and well be hoping we get good returns for Staal and Hall at the deadline, then cross our fingers Hall considers coming back. They improved offensively, took a step back defensively, and changed nothing goal. Well see where they end up, but I still think theyre at the bottom of their new division and would only be ahead of Ott/Det in a normal division with Mtl being arguable.

Essentially my feelings.

New division, they should finish above New Jersey. I have a hard time seeing them above anyone else until issues on the back end and in net are resolved.