hypothetically..... Would the leafs be a better team with Nylander or Pesce?

[BigBadBruins7708]

definitely better with Pesce, which is no slight to Nylander

 

[wintersej]

Same thing as Hall vs Larsson. Are the Oilers better with Larsson or Hall?

Nylander is not Hall.

 

[wintersej]

and it is apparently extremely difficult for posters (like yourself) to come to terms that the Leafs player is sometimes the better choice.

Nylander is the better player. Pesce would make specifically the Leafs better in my book. Do the Leafs want to keep the weakness at RD and overwhelm you with their strengths at forward or do they want to patch their hole a bit?

From a Bruins fan perspective, our one hope in a 7 game series is seeing 63/37/88 make Hainsey look like an AHLer and trying to survive the rest of the game. Pesce isn't prime Pronger or anything, but with Pesce there next to Morgan instead of old man Hainsey, the chances of my team specifically beating the Leafs goes down a lot.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Nylander is the better player. Pesce would make specifically the Leafs better in my book. Do the Leafs want to keep the weakness at RD and overwhelm you with their strengths at forward or do they want to patch their whole a bit?

From a Bruins fan perspective, our one hope in a 7 game series is seeing 63/37/88 make Hainsey look like an AHLer and trying to survive the rest of the game. Pesce isn't prime Pronger or anything, but with Pesce there next to Morgan instead of old man Hainsey, the chances of my team specifically beating the Leafs goes down a lot.

I had posted this in another thread, so I'll just quote myself on my reservations for this trade:

My worry about trading Nylander for a d-man (see: Pesce) is that I'm not entirely convinced the Leafs defensive issues are a personnel issue. Don't get me wrong, our right side sucks, but the Leafs get hemmed in their zone for long periods and often and the forwards and left-side have the same issues. I think Babcock's defensive system is just really bad. There is never a strong breakout, there is never puck support, and there is far too much reliance on flipping the puck to the neutral zone and praying our speedy forwards will win the race.

I don't think moving Nylander for a defenseman is a bad thing, I just don't imagine it will solve much of the Leafs defensive woes.

I'm not convinced that this move would really help the Leafs defensive woes all that much until the system is fixed. That, along with IMO Nylander being the more valuable asset makes this trade not a slam dunk in my opinion.

 

[Mattavarner]

Leafs fan saying Pesce, he would be a perfect compliment to Rielly and allow us to bump Hainsey down.
Next year run with
Rielly-Pesce
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren
Ozhiganov

Yes Nylander is the better player, but Pesce's contract is one of the best, and it will allow us to keep more depth players like Kapanen and Johnsson, as well as maybe grab a prospect from Carolina as well to even out the value.

Overall it kind of works out to
Nylander for Pesce, Kapanen, Johnsson, and lets say a second rounder

 

[GoldiFox]

Slightly better player in a vacuum doesn't always mean more value.

23 year old top-4 RHD Brett Pesce signed for 6 more years at only $4 million per year is an ideal fit for the Leafs short, mid, and long-term needs. He is the perfect contract for current makeup and a high-end talent to match.

Unfortunately for the Leafs, 6 years x $4 million also sound pretty tasty to one of the cheapest franchises in NHL history and current #31/31 on the Cap rankings. Good luck prying that value away from Dundon.

 

[wintersej]

I had posted this in another thread, so I'll just quote myself on my reservations for this trade:



I'm not convinced that this move would really help the Leafs defensive woes all that much until the system is fixed. That, along with IMO Nylander being the more valuable asset makes this trade not a slam dunk in my opinion.

I hear ya. Babcock has never had issues in the past with breakouts, so I don't think its a him issue per say. I would agree the Leafs could fix a lot defensively by having their forwards provide more puck support and what not. But I don't think that is playing to those players strengths either. And I think they are choosing to fly the zone and go for stretch passes and be the aggressors specifically because that lets their speed and Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott take better advantage of their game.

Didn't the Leafs have a stretch last year where Babcock was trying to beat a more responsible game into them and the team wasn't very good in that stretch? The team is never going to be great defensively, its not their game and that is fine. But being able to put together their own Keith/Seabrook type pairing would do wonders for the Leafs. The Bruins embarrassed Rielly/Hainsey last spring.

 

[wintersej]

Leafs fan saying Pesce, he would be a perfect compliment to Rielly and allow us to bump Hainsey down.
Next year run with
Rielly-Pesce
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren
Ozhiganov

Yes Nylander is the better player, but Pesce's contract is one of the best, and it will allow us to keep more depth players like Kapanen and Johnsson, as well as maybe grab a prospect from Carolina as well to even out the value.

Overall it kind of works out to
Nylander for Pesce, Kapanen, Johnsson, and lets say a second rounder

Sandin-Liljegren two rookie pairing, eh?

 

[Nizdizzle]

Leafs fan saying Pesce, he would be a perfect compliment to Rielly and allow us to bump Hainsey down.
Next year run with
Rielly-Pesce
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren
Ozhiganov

Yes Nylander is the better player, but Pesce's contract is one of the best, and it will allow us to keep more depth players like Kapanen and Johnsson, as well as maybe grab a prospect from Carolina as well to even out the value.

Overall it kind of works out to
Nylander for Pesce, Kapanen, Johnsson, and lets say a second rounder

Sandin-Liljegren two rookie pairing, eh?

Not that I think Sandin will be ready for the show next year, but I imagine if that happened Dermott would play with Liljegrin (they were a pairing on the Marlies for the Calder Cup win) and Sandin could play with Zaitsev.

 

[newfy]

Leafs fan saying Pesce, he would be a perfect compliment to Rielly and allow us to bump Hainsey down.
Next year run with
Rielly-Pesce
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren
Ozhiganov

Yes Nylander is the better player, but Pesce's contract is one of the best, and it will allow us to keep more depth players like Kapanen and Johnsson, as well as maybe grab a prospect from Carolina as well to even out the value.

Overall it kind of works out to
Nylander for Pesce, Kapanen, Johnsson, and lets say a second rounder

I agree with you. If you were starting a team from scratch and had to pick one guy, Nylander is likely better. But Pesce is a 23 year old legit top 4 D that plays a style the Leafs need back there. He would help balance out that defense a lot and even though the Leafs are good I think the biggest Leaf homers would say that defense needs work, their goals against are bottom 3 in the league right now. Pesce would help with that and Kapanen could just stay on the top line and fill that spot for the rest of the season and moving forward

 

[Nizdizzle]

The more consideration I give to it, the more Pesce grows on me for the contract alone. That is a big chip off the shoulder to have a guy locked in long term at that price.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Nylander. If he was on the Canes this would be a landslide

Yes because you would be so eager to do a Rielly for Ehlers trade

 

[BAM]

Yes because you would be so eager to do a Rielly for Ehlers trade

Pesce isn't a 1D like Rielly is

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Pesce isn't a 1D like Rielly is

Nylander isn't signed to a good contract like Ehlers is

 

[Spilot23]

Aren't they already very good without him ? Adding a dman would probably be more helpful IMO.

 

[sparxx87]

Seems like the large majority don't agree with you

Majority voted Donald Trump as president.. That in itself shows how reliable a mass vote can be.

Without qualifying the individuals, what does it really tell us? Sheep will follow?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Majority voted Donald Trump as president.. That in itself shows how reliable a mass vote can be.

Without qualifying the individuals, what does it really tell us? Sheep will follow?

So all votes/polls are all wrong if you dont agree with the results because you assume everyone is just following?

 

[hilarnat]

Majority voted Donald Trump as president..

Be careful with that. Popular votes / electoral votes and all that jazz.

 

[sparxx87]

So all votes/polls are all wrong if you dont agree with the results because you assume everyone is just following?

No, but they aren’t right, either, just because the majority voted.

“Poll results agree with me” is a ridiculous argument because half the people here are morons.

 

[Dr Pepper]

No way of knowing unless/until the Leafs trade for Pesce.

They've shown they don't need Nylander at all, making his contract demands all the more laughable.

So Pesce would be an added bonus defensively, but what if he doesn't gel with his blueline pairing?

Could end up being detrimental. Subtraction by addition, as it were.

 

[BAM]

Nylander isn't signed to a good contract like Ehlers is

It remains to be seen what Nylander signs for, he could very well sign a bridge deal under $6 million or a long term contract between 6-7 as well.

 

[Blame the referee]

Nylander is not Hall.

Pesce is not larsson

 

[TDK67]

Holy crap, thank god everyone here isn't remotely involved in making a decision like this in real life.

From Ian Tulloch's article--Is William Nylander undervalued? An analytical look suggests he is
-----
As much as certain media outlets may try to push the narrative that Nylander is expendable, all of the evidence seems to indicate otherwise. There aren’t too many forwards who can lead their team in controlled zone exits, finish above the 95th percentile of controlled zone entries, score over 2.0 points per 60 at 5v5 and over 5.0 points per 60 at 5v4. In fact, there are six:

• Mathew Barzal
• Taylor Hall
• Patrick Kane
• Nikita Kucherov
• Evgeni Malkin
• William Nylander

When a team drafts a player of this calibre, they typically aren’t looking to trade him. There’s one obvious example in recent memory, and we all know how it turned out.

*picture of Taylor Hall with the Hart*
-----

Before everyone loses their mind at the last bit, Tulloch goes on to say the he's not suggesting Nylander will win the Hart. Just that Nylander has a very similar statistical profile to Hall (prior to the NJ trade).

I highly recommend reading the whole piece as it paints a pretty clear picture that Nylander is very, very good.

To those saying "yes, but Leafs need defense!"...no. Just no. The Leafs (and any team really) simply needs to be better overall than whatever other team they're facing on any given night.

A 22 year old Nylander makes the Leafs far better overall right now (and even more in the future) than Pesce ever could. End of story.

 

[flamesforcup]

Majority voted Donald Trump as president.. That in itself shows how reliable a mass vote can be.

Without qualifying the individuals, what does it really tell us? Sheep will follow?

I think he actually didn't get majority vote. Not 100% sure though something about electorial or something allowed him to win.

 

[NyQuil]

Big minute defencemen are critical to winning in the post season IMO.