Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VI

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DaveG

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^ and ^^

I get all that, but there are certain things at are observable that seemed to be missed. That article that was posted a year or two ago that showed why Lack was a terrible choice for the style Carolina played for example. The fact that Darling, although a big guy, makes himself small by not coming out and challenging, or that once he's out of position, he has terrible ability to recover, etc.

No doubt there are mental things that affect goalies and there is not much margin for error, but it seems to me there are a lot of observable traits (quickness, recovery, lateral movement, glove hand, how they track the puck, puck handling, etc...) that ARE observable and yet, seem to be missed by many teams.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm probably one of the biggest ones to absolutely rail on Francis and JR before him as well as our scouting for going after goalies that are an absolutely putrid fit for our system and what our team is built to do and do well. It's like they're f***ing sheep trying to chase what other teams are doing with the trend of larger goalies rather then trying to identify those that already play a similar style to what we have in place and have the most success with. Second biggest mistake of Francis's tenure as a GM was to run Khudobin out of town for Wiz and then bring in Lack instead of just simply trading for Wiz. The biggest mistake was doubling down on that and getting yet another guy that plays the same style as Lack when a goalie playing that style was a f***ing huge issue for the team in the first place.

Similary Legace and even Justin frigin Peters were successful here in the past, albeit in roles that weren't expected to challenge Cam as the starter. But it feels like each attempt to get bigger in net has only resulted in us getting worse.

But still, mental game has a lot to do with that as well. Darling absolutely clearly was in no way, shape, or form even close to mentally ready heading in to this season. Or physically but that's another matter. Could argue similarly with Lack, though he wasn't near the clusterf*** that Darling was.


It goes back a lot further than that. Mike Richter had a major slump the year before the Rangers won the cup and was sent to Binghamton on a conditioning assignment.

I feel like baseball was ahead of the rest of the sports in the sports psychology department; hockey probably needs it more for the goaltending than anything. I wonder if soccer has dealt with similar issues already.

Likely the case IMHO. In a lot of ways the meltdown of Scott Darling this past year after the way he was in Chicago reminds me of the way Dontrelle Willis's career just absolutely crashed and burned.

As for soccer I didn't play GK in soccer at a high enough level to know for sure simply because I was better on the wings and not the right physical build for the position in the long run, but it's absolutely a mental position as well. I can absolutely tell you it's extremely reliant on reading angles and making sure your head stays in the game. And I'd imagine it's the same playing goal in hockey, though hockey seems a bit more capable of being able to use sheer athleticism to recover when something does go wrong.
 
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cptjeff

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I think Chayka is an intelligent guy with a lot of very innovative ideas that may struggle with followthrough due to his inexperience. Like MinJaBen said, I think he and Dundon would get along, I just don’t know if Chayka has the experience.

Picture your company hiring a 26-year-old kid with an MBA as its CEO. He may have some awesome ideas and be wicked smart, doesn’t mean there won’t be MANY bumps in the road in running the business if he’s not surrounded with the right people.

Yeah, Chayka or somebody of his ilk is exactly the last person I'd hire for this job. I want somebody who respects new stats, but has the experience and qualitative knowledge to put them in context. Somebody who, for example, understands the difference from a 10 foot shot from the goal line and a 10 foot shot from the slot even though both look identical in most advanced stats. The on ice results from hiring a pure quantitative guy have not exactly been all that inspiring.
 

GoldiFox

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Yeah, Chayka or somebody of his ilk is exactly the last person I'd hire for this job. I want somebody who respects new stats, but has the experience and qualitative knowledge to put them in context. Somebody who, for example, understands the difference from a 10 foot shot from the goal line and a 10 foot shot from the slot even though both look identical in most advanced stats. The on ice results from hiring a pure quantitative guy have not exactly been all that inspiring.

All Chayka did last offseason was successfully add a #1C (Stepan), a top-4 veteran D (Hjalmarsson), and the best #1G available (Raanta). That's exactly what I want the next GM to do for the Canes.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I think Chayka is an intelligent guy with a lot of very innovative ideas that may struggle with followthrough due to his inexperience. Like MinJaBen said, I think he and Dundon would get along, I just don’t know if Chayka has the experience.

Picture your company hiring a 26-year-old kid with an MBA as its CEO. He may have some awesome ideas and be wicked smart, doesn’t mean there won’t be MANY bumps in the road in running the business if he’s not surrounded with the right people.

I agree that Chayka seems like an intelligent guy and is probably a guy where it's going to take a few years before you know how effective (or ineffective) he's been as a GM. I also think he's the type Dundon is probably looking for.
 

Chan790

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If Dundon is looking for a Chayka type, why did he interview several people that don't seem to be like him at all (at least background and experience wise? )

For the opportunity to be exposed to multiple different viewpoints, possible approaches, and ways of thinking before making what he probably thinks is the most important decision he's going to make in the first 3-5 years of owning the Canes?
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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If Dundon is looking for a Chayka type, why did he interview several people that don't seem to be like him at all (at least background and experience wise? )

AFAIK, he only interviewed some of the guys seen as "up and coming" assistant GMs. Fenton, Futa and Greeley.

What I meant by his "type" is an an intelligent, up and coming guy (Chayka wasn't as experienced or old as those guys clearly), that will rely heavily on analytics as part of the role, and isn't as conventional. Now, whether that guy exists or can be hired by Dundon is a different story, but based on everything Dundon has said, I would guess those are some of the characteristics he's looking for.
 

cptjeff

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All Chayka did last offseason was successfully add a #1C (Stepan), a top-4 veteran D (Hjalmarsson), and the best #1G available (Raanta). That's exactly what I want the next GM to do for the Canes.

They also finished with 70 points, and not because a good plan fell apart due to injuries/bad luck/whatever. They were a miserably bad team. At the end of the day, you need actual results. New ideas and new modes of thinking aren't better simply because they're new. They have to actually work in the real world. Until the Coyotes actually start winning some games, I'm going to be skeptical.
 

letsgrowcactus

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Kometa wins the cup and Necas gets to celebrate with his team, something he should have experienced last year but didn't due to the U18s.

He wasn't very visible in the previous four matches of the finals, then today he scored the GWG and had an assist on the fourth goal (they won 4:1) :) The skill is just so obvious with him - love it.

(And now I'm going back to celebrating the cup :D )
 

CandyCanes

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Kometa wins the cup and Necas gets to celebrate with his team, something he should have experienced last year but didn't due to the U18s.

He wasn't very visible in the previous four matches of the finals, then today he scored the GWG and had an assist on the fourth goal (they won 4:1) :) The skill is just so obvious with him - love it.

(And now I'm going back to celebrating the cup :D )

Thanks for the update! Congrats on the cup!
 

Rexor

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As letsgrowcactus says, not a great final series from Nečas overall. Třinec was prepared very well tactically for his line and didn't give them much time and space. Nečas had to spend most of the time in his own zone (where he's still so-so) and was looking rather timid offensively. The final game was a lot better though. It looked like Kometa finally managed to wear Třinec down, both physically and mentally, as they weren't nearly as pesky, crafty and confident as in previous games.

Nečas' goal from the last game is the very last video in the article. He's got a very good one-timer and Kometa was trying to set him up for this shot on the PP for the entire second half of the season and the playoffs. Though it was sometimes way too obvious and the opponents learnt to read this play and make it less effective.

SESTŘIH: Zlaté Brno! Kometa vyhrála v Třinci 4:1 a obhájila titul - iSport.cz
 

GoldiFox

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Oh come on now, Stepan a #1C??

You'll have to excuse my opinion. I'm not overselling Stepan to make the point about Arizona. I'm actually a fan of Stepan and have been saying the Canes should look at adding him for the past 3-4 years. I don't think he is a slam-dunk #1C but I do think he he fits a lot of needs as a RH pass-first playmaker. I think he'd finally be the guy who compliments Skinner.

82 games, 14 goals, 56 pts, 8 million bucks.

Totes legit number one center.

Not entirely fair. The guy is a playmaker with terrible and/or inexperienced support outside of Keller. Plus he only made $7 million this year. $6 million next year. $5 million for the two years after (2019-2021).
 
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Surrounded By Ahos

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Over the last five seasons he’s 24th in scoring among centers. He’s obviously not on the level of Crosby or Backstrom, but I don’t think labeling him as a lower end #1c is or if line.
 
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Canes

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Zadina is on the team too.
Hopefully we get a GM soon because if there's a year to finally use some picks and prospects to move up to get a guy like Zadina, this one is it. Still might not be able to do it depending on cost, but I feel like the longer we go without a GM, they less time he has to get a pulse on current assets and the upcoming draft prospects as well (although I'm sure we'll still have a few scouts to give him opinions).
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Hopefully we get a GM soon because if there's a year to finally use some picks and prospects to move up to get a guy like Zadina, this one is it. Still might not be able to do it depending on cost, but I feel like the longer we go without a GM, they less time he has to get a pulse on current assets and the upcoming draft prospects as well (although I'm sure we'll still have a few scouts to give him opinions).

Extremely unlikely. Since the full season lockout, there has only been one time that a team was out of the top 5 and traded into the top 5. That was 2008 when Toronto went from 7th to 5th to draft Luke Schenn. The only other was 2010 when Toronto traded for Kessel, but the Leafs did not know, nor did they expect it to be a #2 OA.

Assuming Zadina will go in the top 3? (or at least 5), I don't see a team trading back that far or they'll make it so painful no team will accept it. Teams just don't do it these days as as elite talent is just too important.
 

emptyNedder

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Didn’t see posted:

It appears Necas is joining the Czech WC team. Might have a chance to play more with Martin Kaut who is projected as a top-20 pick in this Draft. Clicked well at the WJC.

Careful AMO--I made the case several weeks ago that Kaut should be the Canes pick at #11--folks weren't too supportive. He and Necas would be 2/3 of a great future line.

The Canes already have that with Aho (yes at C--he might not be the traditional center, but last year everyone wanted Duchene and seriously who would you rather have at 1C now) and Teravainen.

With an Aho/TT scoring line and a Necas/Kaut scoring line plus a Foegele/Staal line to harass the opponents' scoring line the Canes could challenge 100 points in 2020-21. This season the focus should be on moving the winning mentality up from Charlotte.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Careful AMO--I made the case several weeks ago that Kaut should be the Canes pick at #11--folks weren't too supportive. He and Necas would be 2/3 of a great future line.

The Canes already have that with Aho (yes at C--he might not be the traditional center, but last year everyone wanted Duchene and seriously who would you rather have at 1C now) and Teravainen.

With an Aho/TT scoring line and a Necas/Kaut scoring line plus a Foegele/Staal line to harass the opponents' scoring line the Canes could challenge 100 points in 2020-21. This season the focus should be on moving the winning mentality up from Charlotte.

I can't speak for others, but I remember the discussion between you and me on that topic. I wasn't against it, nor was I for it. I simply know very little about him so I asked for your input on him and why you wanted him, but I didn't say it was a bad move or good move as I wouldn't know.

Edit: I went back and looked and saw another response to it and it was a poster that I think is a Calgary fan, who said it was a reach. There wasn't much for or against discussion on it at all. Or when you were saying "folks weren't too supportive", did you mean on the main board.
 
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emptyNedder

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There wasn't much for or against discussion on it at all
Boom Boom--that is more of what I meant--the only "strong" comment (and it wasn't yours) was that it was a reach. On the gProspect boards I said something similar and there were several comments that he wasn't on lists. So yeah a little of both. Though now Kaut has become a bit trendy.
 
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