tony d
Registered User
Good for them I guess. Say all that you will about Dundon and Waddell, they just got to the ECF, that has to count for something.
Good for them I guess. Say all that you will about Dundon and Waddell, they just got to the ECF, that has to count for something.
This is the one I was thinking about. This one might be worse:
Oh, and Tom Dundon's so cheap he won't raise the 11' 8" bridge.
The Skinner trade wasn't bad. It's not as if he had term and the team traded him for parts anyway a la Buffalo with O'Reilly. Skinner was a soon to be UFA that they didn't want to commit to. Waddell traded him for what the market, limited by Skinner's trade protection, would bear. Compare the high 2nd+++ to what Nyquist, who also had similar trade protection, returned at the deadline (a prospective late 2nd + conditional 2nd that turned into a 3rd) and the Canes did fine on value. The question is if Skinner would have provided the team with more value as an own-rental than what they got back in the trade. I find that hard to argue given that the team ended up making the ECF without him.
The Calgary trade is the one that is questionable mid to long-term. Lindholm and Hanifin, in particular, were long-term assets with potential. Ferland was an own-rental. Fox turned into a handful of lottery tickets. Hamilton is a potential UFA in 2 years. A few years from now, the team may have little to show from that trade.
I'm quite high on Rees and Honka, and I think the upcoming 2nd from the Rags should also be a very good prospect considering just how deep the 2020 draft crop is predicted to be. Hopefully Dougie is either re-signed long-term (my preference considering the lack of RHD in the farm) or parlayed into another high draft pick in the future.
Only thing I would say about that is that he's not done a tremendous amount as GM in Carolina (Niederreiter and his two dust-bin goalies being his only clear wins, though there's nothing wrong with getting Hamilton and Ferland, while Skinner was a pretty bad deal, even before dumping Pu) and his track record isn't the finest. A lot of the foundation of that ECF run was already in place. I don't blame Dundon for not wanting to sign on long-term.
These aren't moves Waddell is making in a vacuum, it's GMBC that's making these moves.
Good-Great Moves:
Nino for Rask
Martinook for Kruger
Signing Mrazek (last year)
Signing Teravainen to a great contract extension
Getting a 1st round pick for Marleau
Getting Reimer for Darling
Haula for AHL prospect Roy and a conditional 5th round 2021 pick.
2019 Draft (on paper) was one of the best based on most pundits.
Leaving Aho to be taken care of by actual pros for an elusive summer 2019 successful RFA signing on a good-value contract.
Decent Moves:
Skinner for 36th OA and a 3rd round pick next year (given the circumstance (NMC))
Fox for 37th OA 2019 and likely a 2nd round pick in 2020 (or 3rd if Fox doesn't play enough). Two 2nd round picks is pretty good for a guy that wasn't ever going to play for us.
Martinook, McGinn, Fleury, Forsling, RFA re-signings.
Dzingel UFA signing
Mrazek re-signing
Not so good / questionable moves:
Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Hanifin/Lindholm
Trading de Hann for Forsling/Forsberg (dumping salary).
Forsberg Arbitration
Overall, I like the body of work, but only time will tell.
These aren't moves Waddell is making in a vacuum, it's GMBC that's making these moves.
Good-Great Moves:
Nino for Rask
Martinook for Kruger
Signing Mrazek (last year)
Signing Teravainen to a great contract extension
Getting a 1st round pick for Marleau
Getting Reimer for Darling
Haula for AHL prospect Roy and a conditional 5th round 2021 pick.
2019 Draft (on paper) was one of the best based on most pundits.
Decent Moves:
Skinner for 36th OA and a 3rd round pick next year (given the circumstance (NMC))
Fox for 37th OA 2019 and likely a 2nd round pick in 2020 (or 3rd if Fox doesn't play enough). Two 2nd round picks is pretty good for a guy that wasn't ever going to play for us.
Martinook, McGinn, Fleury, Forsling, RFA re-signings.
Dzingel UFA signing
Mrazek re-signing
Not so good / questionable moves:
Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Hanifin/Lindholm
Trading de Hann for Forsling/Forsberg (dumping salary).
Forsberg Arbitration
Overall, I like the body of work, but only time will tell.
You have to include the run to the ECF in this trade. Ferland and Hamilton were instrumental, especially Dougie in the 2nd half of the season.The success of the Hamilton/Lindholm/Hanifin trade IMO will depend on the Fox picks and what happens to Dougie.
Amazing he somehow keeps sticking around despite being a mediocre GM. I mean, I was a little surprised when the Canes named him GM in the first place. Couldn't of found someone better? They were in the same division as the Thrashers so they had front row seats to that mess.
It’s pathetic, and it’s not just the Canes. I really hope there is a new wave of GM’s in this league. Good for Toronto for hiring Dubas and not some dinosaur that was respected in the 1990’s. Waddell’s hiring represents a league-wide epidemic.Amazing he somehow keeps sticking around despite being a mediocre GM. I mean, I was a little surprised when the Canes named him GM in the first place. Couldn't of found someone better? They were in the same division as the Thrashers so they had front row seats to that mess.
It’s pathetic, and it’s not just the Canes. I really hope there is a new wave of GM’s in this league. Good for Toronto for hiring Dubas and not some dinosaur that was respected in the 1990’s. Waddell’s hiring represents a league-wide epidemic.
Agree, more teams should hire some fresh blood like Fenton.
I loved Fenton, though. I wish he was there longer!
He's done a pretty good job for CAR since he got here. Until he doesn't, most Canes fans are good with him. He was one of the three finalists for GM of the year this season. Not too shabby. Success also depends on the environment you work in, not just your skills. Maybe he just found his sweet spot. Anyway, it's like Dundon said, he could be gone tomorrow or he could be here for 10 years. It all depends on how things continue to go.It’s pathetic, and it’s not just the Canes. I really hope there is a new wave of GM’s in this league. Good for Toronto for hiring Dubas and not some dinosaur that was respected in the 1990’s. Waddell’s hiring represents a league-wide epidemic.
Agree, more teams should hire some fresh blood like Fenton.
Fenton's been around forever tho, not exactly "fresh blood."
I think the poster was talking more about younger guys like Dubas and John Fancy Stats.
However majority of GMs are still from the Old Boys Club so it'll take some time before they are replaced by the newer generation, the same way the Sam Pollocks, Harry Sinden's and Conn Smythe's were.
I thought the GM didn't need a contract with Carolina?
It’s pathetic, and it’s not just the Canes. I really hope there is a new wave of GM’s in this league. Good for Toronto for hiring Dubas and not some dinosaur that was respected in the 1990’s. Waddell’s hiring represents a league-wide epidemic.
The Calgary trade could end up looking like one of the worst trades of this generation if Dougie just leaves or plays his way out and then the Fox picks don’t turn into anything close to what we gave up.....which they are unlikely to.These aren't moves Waddell is making in a vacuum, it's GMBC that's making these moves.
Good-Great Moves:
Nino for Rask
Martinook for Kruger
Signing Mrazek (last year)
Signing Teravainen to a great contract extension
Getting a 1st round pick for Marleau
Getting Reimer for Darling
Haula for AHL prospect Roy and a conditional 5th round 2021 pick.
2019 Draft (on paper) was one of the best based on most pundits.
Decent Moves:
Skinner for 36th OA and a 3rd round pick next year (given the circumstance (NMC))
Fox for 37th OA 2019 and likely a 2nd round pick in 2020 (or 3rd if Fox doesn't play enough). Two 2nd round picks is pretty good for a guy that wasn't ever going to play for us.
Martinook, McGinn, Fleury, Forsling, RFA re-signings.
Dzingel UFA signing
Mrazek re-signing
Not so good / questionable moves:
Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Hanifin/Lindholm
Trading de Hann for Forsling/Forsberg (dumping salary).
Forsberg Arbitration
Overall, I like the body of work, but only time will tell.
The Calgary trade could end up looking like one of the worst trades of this generation if Dougie just leaves or plays his way out and then the Fox picks don’t turn into anything close to what we gave up.....which they are unlikely to.
DeHaan as we discussed on the board could be a really bad trade too if the D has some injuries or if Faulk just leaves.
I would say I’m completely indifferent to the guy staying or going after those moves. I don’t give him any credit for the Nino move, a ten year old with an Xbox would say hell yeah to that move, that’s all on Fenton. The TT contract is exactly what the guy deserved imo so I don’t view that one as the steal other Canes fans do, but they got it done.
I liked all the trading bad players and contracts for more useful players, and this summers forward additions.
Very few people that day thought Rask and Nino were equal, so that quote is painful. I even argued on Rask’s behalf that day with an internal eye roll. Waddell was negotiating on the behalf of the hive, we don’t have any idea who was behind that.Meh, I'm not about to give blame for the bad and not give credit for the good. I'm going to look at the full body of work and assess it that way. Most GM's get a bit of luck on their side from time to time. Nature of the business and sometimes it's small things you do that allow it (ie...like asking about Nino previously).
EDIT: to further this, it's not as if the Nino trade came out of nowhere. Here was what was on NHL.com. While no doubt Fenton was inept, it's not like the Canes just had it fall into their laps. They decided he was a target and Waddell initiated the talks.
It all started with a list.
That list consisted of 10-12 names, names of players in the National Hockey League who the Carolina Hurricanes - their management team, professional scouts and video scouts - thought to target in potential trades, names of players who could perhaps benefit from a change of scenery.
Nino Niederreiter's name was on that list, which was assembled on the first weekend in January in Buffalo as curtains fell on the 2019 World Junior Championship.
On Sunday, Jan. 13, following the Hurricanes' 6-3 afternoon victory against the Nashville Predators, the management team reconvened on the fourth floor of PNC Arena.
With the Canes' desire to bolster their top-six group of forwards, Niederreiter's name was a popular discussion point and a unanimously agreed upon target.
"We've talked all year about goal scoring. Nino is proven over the years," Hurricanes President and General Manager Don Waddell said. "We felt like if we could get him and put him in an opportunity to succeed, he's a guy who's capable of scoring goals."
On Monday, Jan. 14, Waddell called Wild General Manager Paul Fenton, an old friend, to begin trade talks. Those conversations spilled into Tuesday, and by late in the day on Wednesday, the framework of a deal was taking shape.
"We were probably trying to complicate it for a couple days there. We were probably trying to make it either a bigger deal or add some pieces, and I think both of us just got to the point and said, 'Hey, my guy needs a change of scenery, your guy needs a change of scenery, let's just do this,'" Waddell said.