Hurricanes extend Don Waddell

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by mymerlincat, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. tony d

    tony d HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    Good for them I guess. Say all that you will about Dundon and Waddell, they just got to the ECF, that has to count for something.
     
  2. DarkHorse2

    DarkHorse2 Registered User

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    Only thing I would say about that is that he's not done a tremendous amount as GM in Carolina (Niederreiter and his two dust-bin goalies being his only clear wins, though there's nothing wrong with getting Hamilton and Ferland, while Skinner was a pretty bad deal, even before dumping Pu) and his track record isn't the finest. A lot of the foundation of that ECF run was already in place. I don't blame Dundon for not wanting to sign on long-term.
     
  3. Big Daddy Cane

    Big Daddy Cane Lion Reaves

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    The Skinner trade wasn't bad. It's not as if he had term and the team traded him for parts anyway a la Buffalo with O'Reilly. Skinner was a soon to be UFA that they didn't want to commit to. Waddell traded him for what the market, limited by Skinner's trade protection, would bear. Compare the high 2nd+++ to what Nyquist, who also had similar trade protection, returned at the deadline (a prospective late 2nd + conditional 2nd that turned into a 3rd) and the Canes did fine on value. The question is if Skinner would have provided the team with more value as an own-rental than what they got back in the trade. I find that hard to argue given that the team ended up making the ECF without him.

    The Calgary trade is the one that is questionable mid to long-term. Lindholm and Hanifin, in particular, were long-term assets with potential. Ferland was an own-rental. Fox turned into a handful of lottery tickets. Hamilton is a potential UFA in 2 years. A few years from now, the team may have little to show from that trade.
     
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  4. Svechhammer

    Svechhammer 2 Flags 1 Cup

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  5. Hockyluv21

    Hockyluv21 Registered User

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    I'm quite high on Rees and Honka, and I think the upcoming 2nd from the Rags should also be a very good prospect considering just how deep the 2020 draft crop is predicted to be. Hopefully Dougie is either re-signed long-term (my preference considering the lack of RHD in the farm) or parlayed into another high draft pick in the future.
     
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  6. Big Daddy Cane

    Big Daddy Cane Lion Reaves

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    Ultimately, they're day 2 lottery tickets. The team will have done well if they get an NHL player from the Fox picks.

    I don't think the value in the Calgary trade was off. It's a question of timing. Was that the right moment to trade long-term, potential core assets for a potential short-term core asset and more? They got a conference finals appearance out of it so far. We'll see what they can do in the next couple years.

    My point is just that it could go south in time. The Skinner trade was fine and my view on that won't change. It would take an act of god for the Rask-Niederreiter trade to be anything other than a good trade from a Carolina perspective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  7. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    These aren't moves Waddell is making in a vacuum, it's GMBC that's making these moves.

    Good-Great Moves:
    Nino for Rask
    Martinook for Kruger
    Signing Mrazek (last year)
    Signing Teravainen to a great contract extension
    Getting a 1st round pick for Marleau
    Getting Reimer for Darling
    Haula for AHL prospect Roy and a conditional 5th round 2021 pick.
    2019 Draft (on paper) was one of the best based on most pundits.

    Decent Moves:
    Skinner for 36th OA and a 3rd round pick next year (given the circumstance (NMC))
    Fox for 37th OA 2019 and likely a 2nd round pick in 2020 (or 3rd if Fox doesn't play enough). Two 2nd round picks is pretty good for a guy that wasn't ever going to play for us.
    Martinook, McGinn, Fleury, Forsling, RFA re-signings.
    Dzingel UFA signing
    Mrazek re-signing

    Not so good / questionable moves:
    Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Hanifin/Lindholm
    Trading de Hann for Forsling/Forsberg (dumping salary).
    Forsberg Arbitration

    Overall, I like the body of work, but only time will tell.
     
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  8. Lempo

    Lempo hose style Sponsor

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    Added that for you.

    Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
     
  9. Oddbob

    Oddbob Registered User

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    I thought the GM didn't need a contract with Carolina?
     
  10. Hockyluv21

    Hockyluv21 Registered User

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    I think that the Fox trade for 2 2nds is in the excellent category. The fact that they managed a return of such size for an unruly prospect that only wanted to play for one team shows a lot of pro-activity on management's part. With the Canes' sparkling recent draft record, I trust the scouts to nail the picks. The success of the Hamilton/Lindholm/Hanifin trade IMO will depend on the Fox picks and what happens to Dougie. Hopefully he's either re-signed (my preference) or dealt for a good futures package next offseason. I don't want a Tavares-esque situation with Dougie where he leaves for nothing except empty cap space.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  11. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    Amazing he somehow keeps sticking around despite being a mediocre GM. I mean, I was a little surprised when the Canes named him GM in the first place. Couldn't of found someone better? They were in the same division as the Thrashers so they had front row seats to that mess.
     
  12. NotOpie

    NotOpie "Puck don't lie"

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    You have to include the run to the ECF in this trade. Ferland and Hamilton were instrumental, especially Dougie in the 2nd half of the season.
     
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  13. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    Except when you look at the moves made in Carolina since he came on board, overall, it's a pretty positive story (see my post above with his actions). Don't get me wrong, many of us Canes fans were skeptical as well, but so far, the results have been pretty positive. That said, I don't think he has the same level of responsibility that many GMs have given how Dundon has set up the organization.
     
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  14. Pens x

    Pens x Registered User

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    It’s pathetic, and it’s not just the Canes. I really hope there is a new wave of GM’s in this league. Good for Toronto for hiring Dubas and not some dinosaur that was respected in the 1990’s. Waddell’s hiring represents a league-wide epidemic.
     
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  15. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    Agree, more teams should hire some fresh blood like Fenton.
     
  16. Hockyluv21

    Hockyluv21 Registered User

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    I loved Fenton, though. I wish he was there longer! :D
     
  17. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    When I said "teams", I definitely meant other teams.
     
  18. Cane mutiny

    Cane mutiny Ahoy_Aho

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    He's done a pretty good job for CAR since he got here. Until he doesn't, most Canes fans are good with him. He was one of the three finalists for GM of the year this season. Not too shabby. Success also depends on the environment you work in, not just your skills. Maybe he just found his sweet spot. Anyway, it's like Dundon said, he could be gone tomorrow or he could be here for 10 years. It all depends on how things continue to go.
     
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  19. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    Fenton's been around forever tho, not exactly "fresh blood."

    I think the poster was talking more about younger guys like Dubas and John Fancy Stats.

    However majority of GMs are still from the Old Boys Club so it'll take some time before they are replaced by the newer generation, the same way the Sam Pollocks, Harry Sinden's and Conn Smythe's were.
     
  20. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    Fair enough, but even though he'd been around for a while, he was a 1st time GM. His comment was about guys like Waddell and Chiarelli that teams keep recycling over and over again.
     
  21. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    In theory he doesn't. Dundon was quite direct in saying that he'll keep Waddell exactly as long as he wants. A contract doesn't stop him from getting fired.

    The only difference is money. Waddell was able to find a team willing to give him a contract, so Dundon matched it (presumably, we haven't seen the offer) rather than let him walk. If he gets fired, he will be owed a payout whereas before he wouldn't have had anything beyond severance.
     
  22. LakeLivin

    LakeLivin Armchair Quarterback

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    Or does it represent a new paradigm? In that some of the traditional responsibilities a GM would carry aren't specifically under Waddell but are being handled by people like Tulsky, Krepelka, etc.? Even Brind'Amour has noted that he has significantly more input.
     
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  23. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Registered User

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    The Calgary trade could end up looking like one of the worst trades of this generation if Dougie just leaves or plays his way out and then the Fox picks don’t turn into anything close to what we gave up.....which they are unlikely to.

    DeHaan as we discussed on the board could be a really bad trade too if the D has some injuries or if Faulk just leaves.

    I would say I’m completely indifferent to the guy staying or going after those moves. I don’t give him any credit for the Nino move, a ten year old with an Xbox would say hell yeah to that move, that’s all on Fenton. The TT contract is exactly what the guy deserved imo so I don’t view that one as the steal other Canes fans do, but they got it done.

    I liked all the trading bad players and contracts for more useful players, and this summers forward additions.
     
  24. Boom Boom Apathy

    Boom Boom Apathy Eat cookies, get fat, watch from the couch

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    Meh, I'm not about to give blame for the bad and not give credit for the good. I'm going to look at the full body of work and assess it that way. Most GM's get a bit of luck on their side from time to time. Nature of the business and sometimes it's small things you do that allow it (ie...like asking about Nino previously).

    EDIT: to further this, it's not as if the Nino trade came out of nowhere. Here was what was on NHL.com. While no doubt Fenton was inept, it's not like the Canes just had it fall into their laps. They decided he was a target and Waddell initiated the talks.

    It all started with a list.
    That list consisted of 10-12 names, names of players in the National Hockey League who the Carolina Hurricanes - their management team, professional scouts and video scouts - thought to target in potential trades, names of players who could perhaps benefit from a change of scenery.
    Nino Niederreiter's name was on that list, which was assembled on the first weekend in January in Buffalo as curtains fell on the 2019 World Junior Championship.

    On Sunday, Jan. 13, following the Hurricanes' 6-3 afternoon victory against the Nashville Predators, the management team reconvened on the fourth floor of PNC Arena.
    With the Canes' desire to bolster their top-six group of forwards, Niederreiter's name was a popular discussion point and a unanimously agreed upon target.

    "We've talked all year about goal scoring. Nino is proven over the years," Hurricanes President and General Manager Don Waddell said. "We felt like if we could get him and put him in an opportunity to succeed, he's a guy who's capable of scoring goals."

    On Monday, Jan. 14, Waddell called Wild General Manager Paul Fenton, an old friend, to begin trade talks. Those conversations spilled into Tuesday, and by late in the day on Wednesday, the framework of a deal was taking shape.

    "We were probably trying to complicate it for a couple days there. We were probably trying to make it either a bigger deal or add some pieces, and I think both of us just got to the point and said, 'Hey, my guy needs a change of scenery, your guy needs a change of scenery, let's just do this,'" Waddell said.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  25. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Registered User

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    Very few people that day thought Rask and Nino were equal, so that quote is painful. I even argued on Rask’s behalf that day with an internal eye roll. Waddell was negotiating on the behalf of the hive, we don’t have any idea who was behind that.

    As far as blaming for bad not for good.....I agree the hive probably agreed to the DeHaan situation. I don’t want to get into another drawn out conversation about the Calgary trade but I do hold Waddell and TD a bit more responsible for that one.
     

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