pappyline
Registered User
Yeh, they basically won their share as there were 3 stacked teams in the late 40's early 50's: Habs, Leafs. Wings
Hull or Richard
- Thread starter Big Phil
- Start date
The Hull & Ferguson fight in 1968 was big news at the time because of Ferguson's reputation as a fighter. On this occasion, Hull was coming across the ice and Ferguson crosschecked Hull just over the nose. It was pretty viscious and almost as bad as what Chris Simon did. Hull, bleeding, dropped his gloves and won a decision over the reputed heavyweight champion of the NHL. There are a number of photos and stories of the fight.
A few days later, Hull suffered a broken jaw in a game and when he played Montreal the next week, Hull was ready to go at it with Ferguson again, wired jaw or not.
Bobby Hull was as tough as they came.
Not sure about your comment Richard's teams before 1955-56. The Canadiens were in the finals every year from 1951 to 1955.
A few days later, Hull suffered a broken jaw in a game and when he played Montreal the next week, Hull was ready to go at it with Ferguson again, wired jaw or not.
Bobby Hull was as tough as they came.
Not sure about your comment Richard's teams before 1955-56. The Canadiens were in the finals every year from 1951 to 1955.
pappyline
Registered User
There it is folks. Hull fought & beat the reputed toughest player in the league wereras the Rocket is known for swinging his stick at Hal Laycoes's head & punching a couple of referees.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
For what they did too him,what Richard did back to them wasen't enough.If the movie is exactly what really happened,that Bruins player that swinged his stick at Richard deserved a sledge hammer in the head!
And for returning to a game against the Bruins after being knocked out and scoring the winning goal against Sugar Jim Henry while only half concious.
Both were tough players. Both were elite goal scorers. Richard played on better teams but he also scored more clutch goals than Hull.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
I'd take Beliveau's and Shore's more complete games over Hull, but yeah, he is one of the top 10 ever, easily.
Hull was wearing a football style helmet with a face guard to protect his jaw. He and Ferguson collidedand the helmet was knocked off. Hull and Ferguson threw a few punches before grappling and at least one of the punches by Ferguson landed on Hull's jaw.
The press (including the Montreal media) vilified Ferguson for his actions. Ferguson would later claim he never in fact landed a punch but from what I recall he did so.
Here are pictures of Hull and the helmet from the 1968-69 season:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080...p?mem=p198302&page=gallery&pic=43&list=#photo
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080...p?mem=p198302&page=gallery&pic=92&list=#photo
Sorry, but it didn't happen that way. I described the actual true version above. Even Ferguson in his book relates an incorrect story to make himself look good.
There was the one fight before Hull had a broken jaw and Hull decisioned Ferguson on that. Hull and Ferguson tangled again after Hull had a broken jaw. But it wasn't a real fight like the first one, but it did show the courage that Bobby Hull had.
Just trying to clear up the facts.
There was the one fight before Hull had a broken jaw and Hull decisioned Ferguson on that. Hull and Ferguson tangled again after Hull had a broken jaw. But it wasn't a real fight like the first one, but it did show the courage that Bobby Hull had.
Just trying to clear up the facts.
I think Cyclops sums it up correctly.
Both players fought their own battles. Bobby Hull was a clean player who was slow to anger. In the 60's when opponents 'shadowed' him, Hull dud get aggravated. With a clean player like Claude Provost, Hull didn't hit back. But against someone like Bryan 'Bugsy' Watson of Detroit, Hull couldn't take the dirty play and he pulverized Watson in a fight. The post-fight photos Watson's face were the worst ever seen.
Maurice Richard had a much quicker temper and did respond with his stick. But Richard fought with his fists and fought well. And its important to remember that Richard did not seek out any trouble and usually did not start any of the confrontations that he was involved in.
Maybe we should make comparisons between Howe and Richard or maybe Howe and Hull. Unlike Richard and Hull, Gordie Howe tended not to challenge any opponents face to face but usually used his stick when the opponent and referee wasn't looking.
Both players fought their own battles. Bobby Hull was a clean player who was slow to anger. In the 60's when opponents 'shadowed' him, Hull dud get aggravated. With a clean player like Claude Provost, Hull didn't hit back. But against someone like Bryan 'Bugsy' Watson of Detroit, Hull couldn't take the dirty play and he pulverized Watson in a fight. The post-fight photos Watson's face were the worst ever seen.
Maurice Richard had a much quicker temper and did respond with his stick. But Richard fought with his fists and fought well. And its important to remember that Richard did not seek out any trouble and usually did not start any of the confrontations that he was involved in.
Maybe we should make comparisons between Howe and Richard or maybe Howe and Hull. Unlike Richard and Hull, Gordie Howe tended not to challenge any opponents face to face but usually used his stick when the opponent and referee wasn't looking.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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I always hate that theory. Yes I know 50 in 50 came in '44-45 when WWII was still going on and a lot of guys where overseas (Milt Schmidt and all). To me discrediting his accomplishment that year is like saying Gretzky only scored 200 points because it was the '80s, to me its ignorant. Here's why.
Richard has 50 goals that year, and although the competition was weaker at the time because of the war then why didnt anyone else do it (much like Gretzky's theory in the '80s). Lach was a playmaker not an elite goal scorer but why didnt Blake do it? Why didnt Teeder Kennedy do it? If it was that easy wouldnt more all-time greats have done it? Richard had 50 goals, and the next in line that year was Herb Cain with 32. If anyone had elite seasons during WWII, and only then, it was Cain. That's pretty good dominance I think.
Hull I like and when you compare regular seasons its pretty close but the Rocket scored at the right time all the time. Hull had an all-star like team in Chicago too throughout the 60s and only one once. That hurts him on these polls I think.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
The obvious answer to that is...
Why didn't Schmidt do it? Oh yeah...
I think Herb Cain proves the weakness of the league very well.
Meichel Kane
My Name Is
- Jun 6, 2006
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mcphee
Registered User
Hull's got that creepy voice though. I swear Pappy, you must have a transistor set in your forehead that alerts you every time a disrespectful word is said about the Golden Jet.
You ever hear the sound clip of Larry Robinson talking about his 76 Team Canada experience ? They were measuring them for jackets and Robinson, still just a big boned kid, was embarassed to be next to Hull. He spoke about it being a thrill to room with Hull, then mentionned, 'as it turned out,Bobby wasn't in the room much'
Yes, Bobby Hull could almost score at will.
I would take Hull...The Golden Jet...without thinking twice...too lazy, to list all my reasons...
reckoning
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2005
- 7,020
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I don't think it's trying to discredit Richard or his accomplishment, just pointing out that that particular feat was actually less impressive than some of his other less-famous seasons. He was in fact miles ahead of everybody else that season and deserves credit for it, but probably wouldn't have had that huge a gap over everybody else had all the top players been there.
Out of the 12 players selected to the All-Star Teams two years earlier, only 5 of them played in that `44-`45 season. That's a strong indicator of how significantly the War diluted the available talent pool.
Another way of looking it: of the goalies on the other five teams that Richard faced that season, all of them were gone from the NHL within 2 years; except for Harry Lumely , who was only 18 and years away from being an elite goalie. The reason was because they were mostly just temporary replacements for the goalies like Broda, Brimsek, Mowers and Henry who were serving.
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
- 50,797
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Voted dead even...
If I had absolutely to take one, that would be Maurice Richard... He had more "opposition" than Hull got in his whole career, and he never got a center as good as Stan Mikita. Not saying that Elmer Lach was a slouch... He just wasn't Stan Mikita.
If I had absolutely to take one, that would be Maurice Richard... He had more "opposition" than Hull got in his whole career, and he never got a center as good as Stan Mikita. Not saying that Elmer Lach was a slouch... He just wasn't Stan Mikita.
pappyline
Registered User
You are wrong on all counts. Number 1, Hull had lots of opposition. Teams always put a man on him. Claude Provost of Montreal & Bugsy watson of Detroit were probably the best known. Number 2, is that Hull & Mikita rarely played on the same line. Hull had many different linemates. Except for a brief period with Espo, none of them were HOFers. He played with guys like Red Hay, Pit Martin, Murray Balfour, Chico Maki, bryan Campbell while still putting up 50 goal seasons. The rocket played with the likes of Lach, Balake,brother Henri & Dickie moore--all HOFers.
I love Hull, he was my Dad's idol so I grew up hearing about him daily.
But I have to vote the Rocket.
But I have to vote the Rocket.
The Hockey News Top 100 had Richard ranked #5 and Hull ranked #8 (1998?).
The rankings might well have been different if Hull had not jumped to the WHA.
The rankings might well have been different if Hull had not jumped to the WHA.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Hockey News list was based on personal feelings and not necessarily facts. I don't put much credibilty in it.
My apologies, I misread.
The Hull-Ferguson thing goes back a long time with me. The legend was always that Ferguson broke Hull's jaw in a fight and I always want to make sure that it wasn't true.
Bobby Hull had a lot of class as a hockey player and other than Richard, had to put up with more crap than any other player.
If Hull had the meanness of Gordie Howe and got the room Howe had, there is no telling how many goals he would have scored.
That one playoff series that Hull played with almost both eyes shut was remarkable. He was a very courageous player who is underrated in my mind. Hull was the best player in the NHL from 1960 to maybe 1968-69 when Orr started to dominate and Hull got older.
There wasn't anything that Hull could not do - skating, shooting, clutch play, toughness and he even killed penalties.
The Hull-Ferguson thing goes back a long time with me. The legend was always that Ferguson broke Hull's jaw in a fight and I always want to make sure that it wasn't true.
Bobby Hull had a lot of class as a hockey player and other than Richard, had to put up with more crap than any other player.
If Hull had the meanness of Gordie Howe and got the room Howe had, there is no telling how many goals he would have scored.
That one playoff series that Hull played with almost both eyes shut was remarkable. He was a very courageous player who is underrated in my mind. Hull was the best player in the NHL from 1960 to maybe 1968-69 when Orr started to dominate and Hull got older.
There wasn't anything that Hull could not do - skating, shooting, clutch play, toughness and he even killed penalties.
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