Hudler, Filppula and Brunner

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Johnz96*

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How do you figure? Especially in Hudler's case.

It's funny how all of a sudden after 5 games (ignoring his typical Hudler season prior) Hudler is some great talent that Detroit misused.

He was on pace for 53 points (over 82 games) last year (a total he only surpassed once in Detroit), on a bad team that threw in the towel before the season was half over and he was affected by the death of his father.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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I think Babcock did misuse Hudler to a certain extent. Dont' think that was the case for Brunner or Filppula though.

He misused Brunner on the power play. That's about it though.

He needs to get over his stubborn obsession with right handed pint shots. He was a euro forward put on the point when his best asset was not a slapper but a wrist/snap shot from closer in.

Infuriating.
 

ArGarBarGar

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Sep 8, 2008
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He was on pace for 53 points (over 82 games) last year (a total he only surpassed once in Detroit), on a bad team that threw in the towel before the season was half over and he was affected by the death of his father.

It's hard to accurately judge "on pace" projections, but even with 53 points he would only have beaten his previous season by 3 points.

It's basically what people expected.
 

Frk It

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Jul 27, 2010
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It's hard to accurately judge "on pace" projections, but even with 53 points he would only have beaten his previous season by 3 points.

It's basically what people expected.

Didn't he put up 50 pts playing on the 3rd line?
 

detredWINgs

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How do you figure? Especially in Hudler's case.

It's funny how all of a sudden after 5 games (ignoring his typical Hudler season prior) Hudler is some great talent that Detroit misused.

ESPECIALLY in Hudler's case? Hudler was given the least opportunity of all. He was constantly misused, asked to play a bigger game than his athleticism allowed him to, and didn't really get a shot until Babcock had little choice but to use him.

Babcock plays such a heavy (pun intended) mental game with the players he dislikes, it quite literally disintegrates their offensive game.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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I think Flip's "talent" was always overrated.
I think what Flip had was excellent two way instincts and very good speed.

I disagree with this.

Thought he was always 3rd best stick handler on the team
3rd best at gaining the offensive zone, and gaining the zone on the PP
3rd best passer
Pretty good shot
Good vision

As far as a toolbox goes, he has the tools to be a good offensive player. Just was content a lot of the time playing on the outside. When he switched to wing and played more aggressive, we got a flash of all that potential realized. But we didn't see it enough, so I understand why they left him go.
 

detredWINgs

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Filppula scores his 4th goal of the season. Couldn't do more of that for us, eh Flip?

Remember when Samuelsson fled to the Canucks, was used on the halfboards on the Nucks PP as opposed to the point - as was always the logical thing to do - and scored 30 goals and over 50 points?

Why couldn't he have done that for us?

I haven't seen much of Flip as a Bolt, but I'm guessing he has a hell of a lot more freedom in his game than he ever did under Babcock.
 

SaekkiPaelli

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Oct 1, 2011
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Remember when Samuelsson fled to the Canucks, was used on the halfboards on the Nucks PP as opposed to the point - as was always the logical thing to do - and scored 30 goals and over 50 points?

Why couldn't he have done that for us?

I haven't seen much of Flip as a Bolt, but I'm guessing he has a hell of a lot more freedom in his game than he ever did under Babcock.

I watched some periods of the bolts this season and I think you are correct. It's amazing how confident and comfortable he looks compared to last year. But he still doesn't shoot enough, so I don't think he will score 30 goals or anything but we'll see
 

InjuredChoker

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I watched some periods of the bolts this season and I think you are correct. It's amazing how confident and comfortable he looks compared to last year. But he still doesn't shoot enough, so I don't think he will score 30 goals or anything but we'll see

that torn mcl really ****ed up his last season. and even if you're injured you still have to go 100% all the time or babs is going to get mad. seems to be doing good for him to get away from babs.

haven't seen much of vinny, but flip has looked better than grabo and weiss so far.
 

ArGarBarGar

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ESPECIALLY in Hudler's case? Hudler was given the least opportunity of all. He was constantly misused, asked to play a bigger game than his athleticism allowed him to, and didn't really get a shot until Babcock had little choice but to use him.

Babcock plays such a heavy (pun intended) mental game with the players he dislikes, it quite literally disintegrates their offensive game.

So if that is the case why did Hudler have a similar point projection last year to what he had his last season with Detroit? Are we just going to assume based on 5 games that Hudler is going to shatter his previous point high?

Just like with your opinion on Leino and Kopecky, I think you are completely off base here.
 

SoupGuru

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May 12, 2007
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I was discussing with some friends that you need a huge team effort to win the Cup. Every player needs to be on the same page and know their role and give it their all. The Kings are the supreme example of that. Every other team to win the Cup has had a strong team system or philosophy.

Very rarely does a collection of individual players win a Cup. You could argue that the Pens did when they won the Cup. But you look at some of the teams that get knocked out of the playoff when, on paper, they shouldn't. Caps, Sharks, Canucks, etc... To me, those are teams that rely on individual talent to win instead of a team philosophy.

I think the Red Wings have focused on a team philosophy since the Bowman era. And it has worked. I think we've strayed a little bit from it lately, mostly due to the cap.

A collection of good players does not necessarily make a good team.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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So if that is the case why did Hudler have a similar point projection last year to what he had his last season with Detroit? Are we just going to assume based on 5 games that Hudler is going to shatter his previous point high?

Just like with your opinion on Leino and Kopecky, I think you are completely off base here.

Hudler got off to a hot start last year, too, and had people up in arms over losing him.
 

RedWingsNow*

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So if that is the case why did Hudler have a similar point projection last year to what he had his last season with Detroit? Are we just going to assume based on 5 games that Hudler is going to shatter his previous point high?

Just like with your opinion on Leino and Kopecky, I think you are completely off base here.

Hudler was nearly always in Babcock's doghouse
He had one of those attitude problems that Babcock hates in sub-six-footers.

Hudler probably should have been a first unit PP guy. Very few people in the game have his instincts.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Hudler probably should have been a first unit PP guy. Very few people in the game have his instincts.

Maybe he should have been. But when you have even better players like Zeta and Dats at his role/position, he does not fit in. Other three spots will go to a screener (where Hudler is not ideal, too small) and to two pointmen (where Hudler is also not ideal).

He was a great 2nd PP playmaker, better than Filppula ever was on that duty.
 

Johnz96*

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Even though Filppula and Brunner have slipped from a point a game, Hudler is still keeping the triumvirate at a point per game. The skilled but diminutive trio of recent Wings have 18 points in 18 games between them.
 
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Hobnobs

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It pains me to say it but we should have move Flip instead of Hudler.... But thats hindsight... Now Im more pissed about us keeping players instead of letting the kids in...
 

ArGarBarGar

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Sep 8, 2008
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Even though Filppula and Brunner have slipped from a point a game, Hudler is still keeping the triumvirate at a point per game. The skilled but diminutive trio of recent Wings have 18 points in 18 games between them.

I don't think we need a game by game update.

It's been six games. Maybe we should see how their respective teams progress through the season before assuming their current point pace will stick.
 

Johnz96*

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I don't think we need a game by game update.

It's been six games. Maybe we should see how their respective teams progress through the season before assuming their current point pace will stick.

I agree it's way too early to really determine anything but if they are still at close to a point per game in February, it might suggest that they were being under utilized.
The Flames lost their first game in regulation last night, they are off to a surprising start to the season.
19 year old Monahan is looking pretty good too but again it's early and no doubt it will soon be evident that he needs at least 4 years of ripening :naughty:
 

Winger98

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I agree it's way too early to really determine anything but if they are still at close to a point per game in February, it might suggest that they were being under utilized.
The Flames lost their first game in regulation last night, they are off to a surprising start to the season.
19 year old Monahan is looking pretty good too but again it's early and no doubt it will soon be evident that he needs at least 4 years of ripening :naughty:

I'm fairly certain I wouldn't want Hudler on the ice for 20 minutes a night if that's what it takes to utilize him.:)
 

RedWingsNow*

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I think both Hudler and Flip were undervalued here ...
I think most of us viewed the Wings tiers like so ....

D/Z >>>>>>Mule>>FLIP>>Hudler
In fact, I think it's becoming clearer to me that Flip and Hudler were probably on the same tier as Mule, with Flip ranking higher because of his faceoffs and defense.

I pretty much always thought Hudler got the short end of the stick in Detroit. Mostly because Babcock was an idiot -- and fans like to defend the coach, so they bashed Hudler. We're going to see this play out all over again with Tatar, IMO.

It says something about this team that we keep Cleary and bring back Sammy but let Filppula and Hudler walk. And I don't like what it says. It says we don't value puck possession. We value "heavy" and size.

When Hudler left two years ago and signed a reasonable deal in Calgary, I was disappointed to see him go. But I sincerely believed that Nyquist was going to take his spot.

I never imagined that two seasons later, Nyquist would be sitting in Grand Rapids.

If you would have told me 2 years ago that we were going to let Hudler and FLip leave via UFA for no return, and that we would resign Sammy and Cleary, and that Tatar and Nyquist still wouldn't be in the lineup --- Not even I would have imagine that Holland and Babcock could be that stupid
 

BinCookin

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Feb 15, 2012
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I think both Hudler and Flip were undervalued here ...
I think most of us viewed the Wings tiers like so ....

D/Z >>>>>>Mule>>FLIP>>Hudler
In fact, I think it's becoming clearer to me that Flip and Hudler were probably on the same tier as Mule, with Flip ranking higher because of his faceoffs and defense.

I pretty much always thought Hudler got the short end of the stick in Detroit. Mostly because Babcock was an idiot -- and fans like to defend the coach, so they bashed Hudler. We're going to see this play out all over again with Tatar, IMO.

It says something about this team that we keep Cleary and bring back Sammy but let Filppula and Hudler walk. And I don't like what it says. It says we don't value puck possession. We value "heavy" and size.

When Hudler left two years ago and signed a reasonable deal in Calgary, I was disappointed to see him go. But I sincerely believed that Nyquist was going to take his spot.

I never imagined that two seasons later, Nyquist would be sitting in Grand Rapids.

If you would have told me 2 years ago that we were going to let Hudler and FLip leave via UFA for no return, and that we would resign Sammy and Cleary, and that Tatar and Nyquist still wouldn't be in the lineup --- Not even I would have imagine that Holland and Babcock could be that stupid

Roster Decisions are becoming harder and harder to justify.

But it was a UFA trade. Flip VS Weiss. We made a choice. Its not so much trading them for nothing.

Hudler we let walk due to salary demands.
We signed Brunner to make up for it.

We then let Brunner walk for nothing.
 

Chance on Chance

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Jul 15, 2009
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Roster Decisions are becoming harder and harder to justify.

But it was a UFA trade. Flip VS Weiss. We made a choice. Its not so much trading them for nothing.

Hudler we let walk due to salary demands.
We signed Brunner to make up for it.

We then let Brunner walk for nothing.

Flip vs Weiss is a coin flip on who's better so its not a big thing between them. We signed Alfie to replace Brunner. I dont think losing Huldler at 4 million a year was a big thing
 
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