Hudler, Filppula and Brunner

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ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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Letting Filppula walk was a stupid decision. I understand the roster needed a little shake up, but Filppula should not have been been the odd man out. Not sure what Holland was thinking, but people around here judged him by his contract season which he was dealing with a pretty serious injury. It sucks really.

I'm not all that shocked about the Hudler olympic snub, I never thought he was a guy you wanted to depend on in playoff style situations. I wonder what Eva thinks of all this? ;)

Brunner...1 and done (not even 1, a half season). Just like I expected, no regrets there.

They didn't let him walk. He left. With that in mind I'm not sure what kind of "mistake" it is when Holland's attempt was to try and keep him, and went with their plan B in Weiss.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
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Flip needed and wanted a change. His play last year was pretty bad and he didn't produce that much. Seems like a lot of people are forgetting that.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
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What we should be talking about is why the Wings don't have the sort of supporting cast that would allow a guy like Filppula to succeed.

I don't think it's just Babcock keeping him from success.

What? Flip had a 66 pt season here. Always showed flashes of brilliance. Never became the player we thought he could be though here. And yeah I do think Babcock was one of the main reasons he was eager to leave and get a new start.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
11,301
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What we should be talking about is why the Wings don't have the sort of supporting cast that would allow a guy like Filppula to succeed.

I don't think it's just Babcock keeping him from success.

Alex Killorn and Teddy Purcell.

Supporting cast?

Filppula had at least one of Zetterberg, Franzen, or Datsyuk (very temporarily) on his line at all times last season.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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What we should be talking about is why the Wings don't have the sort of supporting cast that would allow a guy like Filppula to succeed.

I don't think it's just Babcock keeping him from success.

The demands on playing center in tampas system vs playing center in Babcocks system.

Why did filppula only ever produce pts at wing in Detroit, but never center?

Why is he playing better under a different coach, not necessarily with better linemates?

These are the questions that we should be asking.

Part of being a coach is working with different personality types and playing styles and getting the most out of all of your guys. Now there's always going to be exceptions to this, because no coach can manage everybody, keep everyone happy, and get the most out of every player.

I think in the case of Hudler and Filppula, neither guy really liked playing for Babcock, and that's part of why we're seeing them succeed elsewhere. Part of it is their increases minutes/role, but a big part of why they left was I believe they clashed with Babcocks coaching style.

That's one of the negatives in having a very intense and demanding coach.
 

14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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Flip needed and wanted a change. His play last year was pretty bad and he didn't produce that much. Seems like a lot of people are forgetting that.

Sometimes, I believe, it is all what it takes. A player simple needs a fresh start somewhere else.

The demands on playing center in tampas system vs playing center in Babcocks system.

Why did filppula only ever produce pts at wing in Detroit, but never center?

Why is he playing better under a different coach, not necessarily with better linemates?

These are the questions that we should be asking.

Part of being a coach is working with different personality types and playing styles and getting the most out of all of your guys. Now there's always going to be exceptions to this, because no coach can manage everybody, keep everyone happy, and get the most out of every player.

I think in the case of Hudler and Filppula, neither guy really liked playing for Babcock, and that's part of why we're seeing them succeed elsewhere. Part of it is their increases minutes/role, but a big part of why they left was I believe they clashed with Babcocks coaching style.

That's one of the negatives in having a very intense and demanding coach.

Another thing is who has to adjust to whom? We have Z and D and then other players have to adjust to them. Two way players has been Wings' philosophe for a long time. Hudler could never play that game.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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Sometimes, I believe, it is all what it takes. A player simple needs a fresh start somewhere else.



Another thing is who has to adjust to whom? We have Z and D and then other players have to adjust to them. Two way players has been Wings' philosophe for a long time. Hudler could never play that game.

Yeah well despite Babcocks love of grinders, you don't NEED every forward to be a two way player. Someone needs to put the puck in the net. You can get away with a 1 way winger like Brunner or Hudler, when you can pair them with elite two way centers like Datsyuk and Z. Having a guy or two on your team is fine, you can't have a lot, but it's not like you shouldn't have any.
 

Chance on Chance

Registered User
Jul 15, 2009
2,851
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Canada
The demands on playing center in tampas system vs playing center in Babcocks system.

Why did filppula only ever produce pts at wing in Detroit, but never center?

Why is he playing better under a different coach, not necessarily with better linemates?

These are the questions that we should be asking.

Part of being a coach is working with different personality types and playing styles and getting the most out of all of your guys. Now there's always going to be exceptions to this, because no coach can manage everybody, keep everyone happy, and get the most out of every player.

I think in the case of Hudler and Filppula, neither guy really liked playing for Babcock, and that's part of why we're seeing them succeed elsewhere. Part of it is their increases minutes/role, but a big part of why they left was I believe they clashed with Babcocks coaching style.

That's one of the negatives in having a very intense and demanding coach.

Agree with all this. Babcock has been spoiled with zed and dats and wants every center to be like them. Babs seems like a very unattractive coach to play for
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
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Yeah well despite Babcocks love of grinders, you don't NEED every forward to be a two way player. Someone needs to put the puck in the net. You can get away with a 1 way winger like Brunner or Hudler, when you can pair them with elite two way centers like Datsyuk and Z. Having a guy or two on your team is fine, you can't have a lot, but it's not like you shouldn't have any.

Some coaches, some fans, you think so, but not Babcock. I am not saying I disagree with you, I just think that is the way Babcock wants it and he runs the team.
 

MTU hockey

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
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Yeah well despite Babcocks love of grinders, you don't NEED every forward to be a two way player. Someone needs to put the puck in the net. You can get away with a 1 way winger like Brunner or Hudler, when you can pair them with elite two way centers like Datsyuk and Z. Having a guy or two on your team is fine, you can't have a lot, but it's not like you shouldn't have any.


Well put. I was going to mention that Chicago has a one dimensional winger in Patrick Kane, But he doesn't seem to prevent his team from winning Stanley Cups.
 

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
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LTIR or golf course
The demands on playing center in tampas system vs playing center in Babcocks system.

Why did filppula only ever produce pts at wing in Detroit, but never center?

Why is he playing better under a different coach, not necessarily with better linemates?

These are the questions that we should be asking.

1.672
1.708
1.714
1.833
1.402


pts/60 5-on-5 for flip. 5 of last 6 years, didn't include 11-12 when he was mostly at wing. those are at random order.

one of those years is this year at tampa, which one is it? how is it an outlier?

he gets a more points because he's getting a lot more pp time with stamkos out and has very good sh% on pp. the last one isn't really repeatable skill, more random and/or luck.

this year's stats are few days old though and they will go up with today's points but the point still stands.

Well put. I was going to mention that Chicago has a one dimensional winger in Patrick Kane, But he doesn't seem to prevent his team from winning Stanley Cups.

kane is on a totally different level than any all offense guys wings have. and that dimension is pretty damn good, one of the best in the league.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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1.672
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pts/60 5-on-5 for flip. 5 of last 6 years, didn't include 11-12 when he was mostly at wing. those are at random order.

one of those years is this year at tampa, which one is it? how is it an outlier?

he gets a more points because he's getting a lot more pp time with stamkos out and has very good sh% on pp. the last one isn't really repeatable skill, more random and/or luck.

this year's stats are few days old though and they will go up with today's points but the point still stands.

Okay even if we say there is no difference in production, which there is.

It doesn't matter because Filppula wasn't happy here. He was willing to take a worse deal on a worse team to get away from Babcock. He's playing the best hockey of his career now.

Losing guys that we drafted and could help our team falls partially on the coach. Maybe if we have a different coach filppula is playing that way here, or he would have had a couple seasons already here playing the way he is now.

I'm just playing devils advocate.
 

LeftBackLegend

Registered User
Oct 15, 2011
645
80
Happy that he's enjoying his hockey, and sad that we couldn't exploit him to the full. These things happen, no need for hard feelings.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
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Filppula has as many points as Z and more goals than any Wing.
Hudler has 37 points, one more than Z.
Wow.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
2,369
Philadelphia
I know. Still, has Babcock chased away 2 good players?

This thread always makes me sad. :( In essence, this is sort of the inquiry of the thread. The thesis. Did Babcock chase them out/ poorly utilize 'em? Regardless of the answer, they're both playing better elsewhere and it's a bummer.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
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They are both playing better elsewhere, because elsewhere there's a possibility to give them a bigger role. Especially in the case of Hudler.
 

Johnz96*

Guest
They are both playing better elsewhere, because elsewhere there's a possibility to give them a bigger role. Especially in the case of Hudler.

They would have been even more successful with the Wings given the opportunity playing with Pav, Z, Lidstrom, Kronner, each other...
The team would have been better for it.
He's doing it again.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
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They are both playing better elsewhere, because elsewhere there's a possibility to give them a bigger role. Especially in the case of Hudler.

That is true with Hudler. But why Hudler, Filppula, Wiess, Quincey ... struggle under Babcock?
 
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