Howson's Replacement???

[Nordique]

Maybe I'm still giddy over the lockout ending, but when I look at the team we have now, the youth we have in the system, and our 3 1st round picks in the upcoming draft, I get very excited about the future.

Howson's prior strategy completely blew up in his face (namely, surround Nash with a few other high calibre players, neglect the middle of the roster, and lean on Mason).

But his transition to the new look Jackets was managed well. (blue collar forwards, depth, strong defense, a new look in goal, 3x1 picks to use in 2013)

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Burke's trigger pulling and Davidson's patience won't work well together.

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[Paisano*]

While I'm not a huge Burke fan, I'd take him any day over Howson. He's made his share of stupid moves, like all those first round picks for Kessel, but he has a hell of a lot better success record than Howson, who has none. It really is a moot point however because as said earlier, JD is in charge here and he and Burke would prolly butt heads. Howson has to know he is on borrowed time with his pathetic five years of failure and is not going to question anything JD wants to do. Butt kissing will be the word here rather than butting heads.

 

[candyman82]

While I'm not a huge Burke fan, I'd take him any day over Howson. He's made his share of stupid moves, like all those first round picks for Kessel, but he has a hell of a lot better success record than Howson, who has none. It really is a moot point however because as said earlier, JD is in charge here and he and Burke would prolly butt heads. Howson has to know he is on borrowed time with his pathetic five years of failure and is not going to question anything JD wants to do. Butt kissing will be the word here rather than butting heads.

Really? Zero successes under Howson?

 

[CrazyCanucks]

Whoa there.

When Burke took over in Vancouver, he had the following at his disposal:
Forwards
Pavel Bure
Mark Messier
Alexander Mogilny
Markus Naslund
Todd Bertuzzi

Defensemen
Mattias Ohlund
Jyrki Lumme
Adrian Aucoin
Bret Hedican
Bryan McCabe

Goalies
Arturs Irbe

ALL of those players with the exception of Messier were either in their prime years or not yet in their prime. They also had excellent depth, and a good farm system (back when guys like Josh Holden were top prospects).

What Burke had to deal with was a massively fractured locker room as a result of the Messier/Noonan faction fighting with everyone else. They had minimal leadership and a terrible coaching situation. But a lack of talent in Vancouver in 1998? No way. No way in hell.

Then that goes to show you how far drafting and developing your own players gets you. The team will take the time to develop the players. They have drafted Linden, Bure, Nedved, Ohlund, Kesler, Bieksa, Sedins, Cory Schneider and a lot of other busts. Yes they have traded some of those players away, to build the team, but because they drafted the players they did, it afforded them to acquire the players they wanted/needed at the time. From Keenan ripping the heart and soul of the team in Linden (much like Nash was traded, different circumstance but you get the point) we got Bertuzzi, McCabe and a pick (Ruttu). Burke Traded McCabe to get a high draft pick to coincide with out other high pick at the time and drafted the Sedins. Burke drafted the core of this team. The Sedins, Kesler, Cory Schneider and Bieksa. Bertuzzi was traded to get Luongo and now whatever we get from Lou, it will live on for years. And this stems from one player (Linden) that was drafted in 1988 and allowed to develop. You need to build a solid foundation from the top down.
Its too bad how much your 2 GM’s have ****ed around your team so much since you guys came in. This is teh reason I believe the CBJ have lacked any sort of consistency is the drafting and development of the young guys. JD will change that for sure. For once the future actually looks good. Now they need to get rid of Howson and get someone else in the GM spot

Even the front office and coaches have developed under this system. Before Quinn it was all over the place. After Quinn, look at this. Quinn as GM and Burke as his assistant. (Drafted Linden, Bure and Nedved) Burke leaves to run his own team in Hartford and George Mcphee comes in (those 2 make unreal trades and drfat picks to get the Canucks to the finals and a competing team until 96. McPhee leaves and goes to run the show in Washington. Quinn gets fired in 97, and the dark year in which Keenan comes in. Burke comes back with Nonis and they run the team until 04 for Burke and 06 for Nonis. Under this whole regime, their coaches/assistant coaches in the system have been Vineault(farm and big club), Crawford, Tom Renny, Ron Wilson(assistant coach), Scott Arniel(he was/is a good coach for the farm system) and Randy Carlyle.

BTW, Josh Holden. I have to laugh at that one havent heard that name in a long time. He was not that great.

 

[Paisano*]

Really? Zero successes under Howson?

Burke won a division title and a playoff series and revived an ailing franchise in Vancouver.
He also won a Stanley Cup with the Ducks.

What has Howson done? Came from a bad team in Edmonton to another bad team here, got to the playoffs with a bunch of Macleans players including a flash in the pan goaltender and got swept. Hasn't made the playoffs since, overpaid on numerous contracts, brought in players who were over the hill, and capped it all last year with a payroll in the top five of the league that finished dead last and caused our only franchise player to request a trade because he saw the futility of the franchise under Howson.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm not a Howson believer, but I really think that Davidson is going to let him lead the 'rebuild' and he's going to let him control the franchise for at least this year and next year. After watching Behind The Battle it seems like Davidson, Patrick, and Howson are all in this together and very in touch with each other. I think Davidson knows that we will be bad this year, and maybe he actually hopes for it, because of the high end potential talents at the top of the board.

Anyway, point is I think Davidson will let Howson see this through, and although I'm not a big Howson fan, he's actually turned around our drafting in recent history and has stocked the cupboard with high end players and stocked up our defense. Everyone points out his flaws, which while not many, have been very significant. But when you look at the big picture, he's not done too bad.

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[CrazyCanucks]

I've got a skate logo Canucks jersey on the chair next to me. Trust me, I remember the history. I can tell you exactly where I was when I heard about the deal sending Janney back to St. Louis for Brown, Hedican, and Lafayette.

Since 1990, I kind of break the contending teams down into three eras. Canucks 1.0 was Bure/Linden/McLean and their respective supporting cast, Canucks 2.0 was Naslund/Bertuzzi/Cloutier, and Canucks 3.0 is Sedin/Sedin/Luongo. Yeah, I know that both Sedins were around for 2.0, but they weren't the go-to guys.



One GM. MacLean left the cupboard bare, with the only under-30 real NHL talent on the roster being Nash and Zherdev (with Brassard in the system).

Howson's biggest challenge since being hired hasn't necessarily been building "an image" as much as building a team that actually has some NHL talent. The curse has been falling outside the drafting areas where the franchise players are. And I think the issues with development come down primarily to two things:
1) Nikita Filatov. Then again, we've also seen his constant feuding with everyone else since he left Columbus as well, so it's really difficult to point to it being a CBJ issue.
2) Projection of MacLean's deficiencies. When there's 7 years of drafting with very little to show for it, it's natural to draw a pattern from it. But this team has done an excellent job of finding talent even outside the first round, even if it takes a bit longer to develop (like the 6th-rounder Cam Atkinson getting three years at BC after being drafted).

I think it's mostly #2 more than anything. It's no different than all last year, looking at #1 overall and hearing that nonstop crap about "Columbus won't draft Russian players!" Well, the defensive pairing of Nikitin and Tyutin was looking awfully stout, with no issues there. Then in the offseason, two more (Anisimov and Bobrovsky) were picked up as well. Columbus has more Russians than anyone else in the NHL, and yet we still hear it.

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. It's extremely difficult to overstate how little talent there was when Scott Howson was hired, and how much more there is right now and into the indefinite future. Add in three first-rounders this year, and the future is bright indeed. The present may well be very bright; we can do nothing except wait and see.



But that was supposed to be the next big line...Holden on one side and Harold Druken up the middle. Holden driving to the net while Druken stickhandles in a phone booth. And if you know what's good for you, you'd avoid Brad Ference at all costs.

(I'm dating myself just a little bit here)

DM is really an idiot. I hate watching the clowns on Sportsnet, with him and Kypreos. A couple of idiots. TSN is way better.

I think Nash wasnt helping and he was a major part of the issue after McLean left. The team seem liked it only played when the big guy was up to playing. The team seem to mirror what Nash was doing. If Nash was slumping or playing lazy, then so would the rest of the team. Dont get me wrong, he is a talent, but he just seemed to waste it when he didnt feel like playing

I hope for your fanbase sake, the CBJ do something in the next couple of years. Seems like a good market that is being abused by the upper management.

Skate Logo is my fav logo. Heres a late Xmas present for you!



Who were you a fan of before the CBJ came to town?

 

[blahblah]

Came from a bad team in Edmonton to another bad team here, got to the playoffs with a bunch of Macleans players including a flash in the pan goaltender and got swept. Hasn't made the playoffs since, overpaid on numerous contracts, brought in players who were over the hill, and capped it all last year with a payroll in the top five of the league that finished dead last and caused our only franchise player to request a trade because he saw the futility of the franchise under Howson.

Far from it for me to defend Howson, but Howson did play a part in that playoff run. Without the trades he made it is highly unlikely we make the playoffs.

While I certainly go off on Howson, I have, in the past, listed the things he has done well. I'm not going to bother to do it again, partially because it starts to fire me up when I think too long about it. However, you rant is inaccurate and not a fair representation of his time here.

 

[Timeless Winter]

Burke won a division title and a playoff series and revived an ailing franchise in Vancouver.
He also won a Stanley Cup with the Ducks.

What has Howson done? Came from a bad team in Edmonton to another bad team here, got to the playoffs with a bunch of Macleans players including a flash in the pan goaltender and got swept. Hasn't made the playoffs since, overpaid on numerous contracts, brought in players who were over the hill, and capped it all last year with a payroll in the top five of the league that finished dead last and caused our only franchise player to request a trade because he saw the futility of the franchise under Howson.

This. Can't really argue any of it either.

 

[ViD]

Howson won't be going anywhere for a while...if ever. He has great talent in the pipeline and 3 1st round picks this coming season, in whats being called the most talented draft class since 2003. He has had his struggles, but he has this organization in a good position now.

I don't know if I'd call this "a good position". Dead last the last season, dead last on all power rankings before this season which means people don't really see much improvement in the team.

And if you look at the roster, you can clearly see issues with forwards and goalies. Sure, having three 1st round picks is good but it's far from guaranteed that they will turn out great and even if they will it's not going to happen soon.

 

[Jaxs]

I don't know if I'd call this "a good position". Dead last the last season, dead last on all power rankings before this season which means people don't really see much improvement in the team.

And if you look at the roster, you can clearly see issues with forwards and goalies. Sure, having three 1st round picks is good but it's far from guaranteed that they will turn out great and even if they will it's not going to happen soon.

This abbreviated season will be the beginning of the rebuild. To think that the front office is comfortable with this team as constructed is folly.

Not defending Howson, but JD has to see what he has through the course of a (an abbreviated) season. He can't come in here with a machete on day one. This will be painful at times. Players know that Howson doesn't have the master key anymore.

Issues with the roster aside, it will be evident which guys are passengers by who remains on the roster going forward.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

I don't think we see a new GM in Columbus until John Davidson wants to take a less "Hands on" role in this product on a day to day basis. There's a level of insulation on Howson now that hasn't been there since Hitchcock was "inherited", a President of Operations with experience thats deciding course. Davidson is essentially the "de facto" GM already. I can see Howson sticking around in his current role (whatever that truly is now, minus the title) until Davidson decides his own time is up and exits the stage (lets say 5-6 years from now).

New President of hockey ops then evaluates what he has, decides to make changes where necessary, and Howson likely lands a job as a top scout or "organizational advisor" somewhere else.

 

[Retire91]

I really doubt Burke would want the job. In his career he usaully took over teams that had a lot going for them. In Toronto he accepted a job for a turn around and it didn't go so well. I don't imagine he'll want to go to another turn around team and wouldn't be suprised if he calls it a career as a GM.

If he adopted the same strategy in Toronto which was to build through trade and free agency he would make the team better but probably never result in a contendor. The only advantage is it would remove the chance of all the bust drafting that is in the organizations history.

 

[Paisano*]

Far from it for me to defend Howson, but Howson did play a part in that playoff run. Without the trades he made it is highly unlikely we make the playoffs.

While I certainly go off on Howson, I have, in the past, listed the things he has done well. I'm not going to bother to do it again, partially because it starts to fire me up when I think too long about it. However, you rant is inaccurate and not a fair representation of his time here.

The only playersHowson brought in here who helped in the playoff run were Juice and Umby. The others were non factors. But let's face it you know as we'll as anyone the Jackets made the playoffs because of Mason. He played out of his mind including 10 shut outs, Nash scoring 40 goals was a big factor too. They were led by Hitchcock, who was later fired by Howson. When Mason went in the tank at the end of the season, the team followed suit. If that team had the last couple of years version of Mason they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs.
Howson has been a complete failure here and every hockey publication on the planet has said so. We are the laughing stock of hockey under Howsons watch.

 

[Mayor Bee]

The only playersHowson brought in here who helped in the playoff run were Juice and Umby. The others were non factors. But let's face it you know as we'll as anyone the Jackets made the playoffs because of Mason. He played out of his mind including 10 shut outs, Nash scoring 40 goals was a big factor too. They were led by Hitchcock, who was later fired by Howson. When Mason went in the tank at the end of the season, the team followed suit. If that team had the last couple of years version of Mason they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs.
Howson has been a complete failure here and every hockey publication on the planet has said so. We are the laughing stock of hockey under Howsons watch.

Today I learned that the following players were "non-factors" in the playoff run:
- Fedor Tyutin
- Jan Hejda
- Antoine Vermette
- Jakub Voracek (drafted by Howson)
- Mike Peca
- Raffi Torres
- Jason Williams
- Mike Commodore (who had a career year)

 

[Paisano*]

Today I learned that the following players were "non-factors" in the playoff run:
- Fedor Tyutin
- Jan Hejda
- Antoine Vermette
- Jakub Voracek (drafted by Howson)
- Mike Peca
- Raffi Torres
- Jason Williams
- Mike Commodore (who had a career year)

Most of those players were here the following year when Mason fell apart, the Jackets finished 14th. I stick by my point that Masons hot streak is what got us in the playoffs, not anything Howson brought in here. Your love affair with Scotty on these boards is well documented. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts. Howsons record sucks and any other team in the league would have fired him long ago.

 

[Roadman]

Your love affair with Scotty on these boards is well documented. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts.

As is your hatred.

 

[Paisano*]

As is your hatred.

I hate losing...
I hate failure...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The only playersHowson brought in here who helped in the playoff run were Juice and Umby. The others were non factors. But let's face it you know as we'll as anyone the Jackets made the playoffs because of Mason. He played out of his mind including 10 shut outs, Nash scoring 40 goals was a big factor too. They were led by Hitchcock, who was later fired by Howson. When Mason went in the tank at the end of the season, the team followed suit. If that team had the last couple of years version of Mason they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs.
Howson has been a complete failure here and every hockey publication on the planet has said so. We are the laughing stock of hockey under Howsons watch.

Most of those players were here the following year when Mason fell apart, the Jackets finished 14th. I stick by my point that Masons hot streak is what got us in the playoffs, not anything Howson brought in here. Your love affair with Scotty on these boards is well documented. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts. Howsons record sucks and any other team in the league would have fired him long ago.

Look I'm OK that you'd like to see Howson fired. amd am OK that there is plenty of evidence to use to support your opinion. But this bit of discussion isn't it.

You say Howson only brought in two players that helped get the team to the playoffs. A loonger list of players that did just that is presented to you, and you change the argument to, "well they were still here the next year." Setting aside the idea that the two players you cited as instrumental were also here the following year -- changing your argument isn't really the best way to garner support for said argument.

If your contenion is that Mason alone is responsible for the playoffs, then defend it. If your argument is that Howson sucks because only two of his many acquisitions helped get the team to the playoffs, then defend it. So far, you've stated the former as fact without presenting supporting evidence, and you moved off the latter when presented with a counter argument.

 

[Paisano*]

Look I'm OK that you'd like to see Howson fired. amd am OK that there is plenty of evidence to use to support your opinion. But this bit of discussion isn't it.

You say Howson only brought in two players that helped get the team to the playoffs. A loonger list of players that did just that is presented to you, and you change the argument to, "well they were still here the next year." Setting aside the idea that the two players you cited as instrumental were also here the following year -- changing your argument isn't really the best way to garner support for said argument.

If your contenion is that Mason alone is responsible for the playoffs, then defend it. If your argument is that Howson sucks because only two of his many acquisitions helped get the team to the playoffs, then defend it. So far, you've stated the former as fact without presenting supporting evidence, and you moved off the latter when presented with a counter argument.

I didn't change anything! The longer list of players presented, I said were non factors. I proved that by showing they were still here the following year and what the result was. Mason got us in the playoffs with his hot streak with THOSE PLAYERS! Mason fell apart the following year with THOSE PLAYERS and the result was a 14th place finish. How hard is that to understand? Mason actually crapped out at the end of the playoff year with the Jackets winning only 3 of their last 10 games which dropped us to 7th and having to play the Wings. With Masons .880 save % and GAA avg over 4 in the playoffs we all know what happened in 4 straight games with THOSE PLAYERS!

 

[Mayor Bee]

Most of those players were here the following year when Mason fell apart, the Jackets finished 14th. I stick by my point that Masons hot streak is what got us in the playoffs, not anything Howson brought in here. Your love affair with Scotty on these boards is well documented. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts. Howsons record sucks and any other team in the league would have fired him long ago.

I didn't change anything! The longer list of players presented, I said were non factors. I proved that by showing they were still here the following year and what the result was. Mason got us in the playoffs with his hot streak with THOSE PLAYERS! Mason fell apart the following year with THOSE PLAYERS and the result was a 14th place finish. How hard is that to understand? Mason actually crapped out at the end of the playoff year with the Jackets winning only 3 of their last 10 games which dropped us to 7th and having to play the Wings. With Masons .880 save % and GAA avg over 4 in the playoffs we all know what happened in 4 straight games with THOSE PLAYERS!

Ah yes, the following year...2009-10.

In 2009-10, five players on the Jackets had 50 points. Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, RJ Umberger, Jakub Voracek, and Kristian Huselius. Six players had 15+ goals: all of those five, plus Raffi Torres. The two highest-scoring defensemen on the team were Anton Stralman and Fedor Tyutin.

Want to guess what all of those players except Nash have in common with each other?

You're first blaming those guys for the team not continuing to have success, then blaming Mason falling apart. Well, his backup was 3 games over .500 on the year in limited action; Mason was 6 games under. That backup was Mathieu Garon...know what he had in common with the above players?

So which is it? Is it Mason's fault for falling apart, or is it the fault of all of the above players for being "non-factors" despite being the only productive players in a poor year?

 

[blahblah]

The only playersHowson brought in here who helped in the playoff run were Juice and Umby.

One of the most Major Epic /facepalm of all times... Grats.

Vermette and JW...