How?
- Thread starter NickH8
- Start date
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
There's been a few stories out there that explain it, written at various points in the season.
What it really comes down to is McPhee and McCrimmon putting an excessive amount of energy into finding high character, hard working players that had the attributes they felt the team needed. They were calling up and interviewing friends and family of exposed players prior to selecting guys in the expansion draft. They did similar things for people in the organization as well. They wanted the right guys in the organization, not necessarily the "right" players, scouts, trainers, ad execs, etc.
Essentially, they got the right people on the bus and then decided where the bus would go. I've got a feeling Foley had a lot to do with it, he had a vision of how he wanted the team to play and they kind of got it.
NickH8
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- Jul 3, 2015
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Have your pro scouts been a big part? I'd assume so, finding guys like Ryan Carpenter or Brad Hunt and turning them into gold.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
I'm sure they played a part, there's no way they couldn't have.
Carpenter was supposedly on the list of players they wanted at the expansion draft, but San Jose protected him. Once that happened, they picked Schlemko and dealt him for assets since he (apparently) didn't fit the mentality/character they wanted with the Knights.
Someone in the room will write a book about this expansion once they retire, and it will sell 800 copies, yet it will be a masterpiece.
Bart9349
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- Jul 4, 2016
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It has been rumored that Las Vegas is a unique cosmic vortex where average players can obtain superhuman skills.
(Image of Marchessault)
This, of course, is only speculation and has not been scientifically proven.
Personally, I feel that the Knight's success is the confluence of many factors.
First, this team is made up of underappreciated players, a coach, and a GM who all want to prove that they are deserving a career in the NHL and who, in many cases, were unfairly cast off by their previous teams.
Second, GM George McPhee was able to get some quality players who are UFAs next year. These players were unprotected in the draft for budgetary reasons: Neal, Perron, and Sbisa. Of course, they want to earn a nice contract for next season.
Vegas Golden Knights - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Third, this team is anchored by veteran goalie Marc Andre-Fleury who brings a three-time Stanley Cup winner pedigree and leadership to a new franchise.
Fourth, many players have finally been given a chance to excel and reach their full potential as players, rather than being buried deep in some lineup: Karlsson, Tuch, Haula, Nosek, etc.
Fifth, this team most nights has embraced the concept of a quick and aggressive game. Russian star Shipachyov never bought into the system and soon left the team.
Finally, the team plays in the exciting venue known as T-Mobile Arena. Both the players and fans mutually feed on the excitement.
This team doesn't look like a "one hit wonder," either. The Kights have already made some excellent picks in the draft, they have stockpiled many future picks, and the addition of veterans Reaves and Tatar will increasingly pay dividends.
Gerard Gallant is an amazing, previously underrated coach. He figured out a system to maximize the talent of his players.
Guys like Marchessault, Perron, Karlsson, Haula, Miller, Schmidt and Carpenter have proven to be better players than they were thought to be when given more opportunity. Maybe it's a bit surprising that the team managed to find so many of these hidden gems.
Guys like Neal and Fleury have kept all-star careers going.
We have solid depth throughout the bottom of the lineup due to getting actual NHL quality players from every team.
Young guys like Theodore, Tuch and Subban have made some progress.
Karlsson has had a career year with us. The rest of our run, I believe, is sustainable. The numbers put up by Karlsson might be the outlier and I worry he would come back down to earth next season. I still think he will be a good player but maybe not 40 goals, 70 points good.
Guys like Marchessault, Perron, Karlsson, Haula, Miller, Schmidt and Carpenter have proven to be better players than they were thought to be when given more opportunity. Maybe it's a bit surprising that the team managed to find so many of these hidden gems.
Guys like Neal and Fleury have kept all-star careers going.
We have solid depth throughout the bottom of the lineup due to getting actual NHL quality players from every team.
Young guys like Theodore, Tuch and Subban have made some progress.
Karlsson has had a career year with us. The rest of our run, I believe, is sustainable. The numbers put up by Karlsson might be the outlier and I worry he would come back down to earth next season. I still think he will be a good player but maybe not 40 goals, 70 points good.
I don't think either of those guys has really overachiever from what was expected of them. Carpenter will end the season with about 50 games played and 10 goals/20 points that was about where the Sharks would have hoped. Hunt has always been a competent player but his size was always held against him. The real find and a total shocker has been Karlsson and without the expansion draft deal I doubt he would have been selected. Subban being a quality goalie has been a shocker too, shows what good coaching and faith in a physically talented player can do. Shea Theodore was a defensive zone disaster early in the season so much that he was in the AHL. Once again good coaching told him pay attention to his zone first and it was like a 2 week transition and he became indispensable. The rest is just more playing time and a more explosive system than most would have been expected. Some guys are having career years but the combination of more ice time and a more aggressive system has done that.
The whole "they didn't want me" narrative is overrated, few teams really wanted to lose these guys. Credit the NHL for making the draft far more valuable. Seattle is going to get good players too but if it all works out remains to be seen. Teams are a little smarter now about preparing and have plenty of lead time to prepare. I bet a lot of young players don't start next season in the NHL as teams try to avoid the 2 years experience rule.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Short answer imho
Great hires, great expansion draft, brought together by tragedy and playing with chip on the shoulder.
Great hires, great expansion draft, brought together by tragedy and playing with chip on the shoulder.
Bart9349
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Maybe correct, but listening to Coach G on Sportsnet this morning, there is definitely a feeling of having something to prove as "underdogs." It is obvious that teams did not want to lose these guys (except for a few expensive contracts). Once the Knights were gathered, however, the team was motivated to show their legitimacy as an NHL team.
Spirit of 67
Registered User
Well they had access to some good players. If you get good players, you get a good team. Couple that with a few intangible things that have been discussed above, it's not hard to see why.
Also, their bottom end talent is better than most other teams bottom end talent. I can't really think of any players who clearly aren't NHL caliber. Most expansion teams are full of players like that. A lot of NHL teams have those as well.
Also, their bottom end talent is better than most other teams bottom end talent. I can't really think of any players who clearly aren't NHL caliber. Most expansion teams are full of players like that. A lot of NHL teams have those as well.
IceNeophyte
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It's odd that not a single hockey expert recognized the world class draft Vegas was gifted. Most all pre-season predictions put Vegas between 6th and 8th in Pacific.
hotcabbagesoup
why u guys want Celebrini, he played like a weenie
Another contributing factor: the weak Pacific division.
It is a just a great turn of events that Vegas arrived at a time when the majority of the Pacific teams are trending downwards. It beats playing in the Central where you have Nashville and Winnipeg and everyone else is solid.
The Pacific:
1. Oilers are mentally fragile and have no defense.
2. Calgary is inexperienced and lack a true 1C.
3. Los Angeles still can't score, they suck and just get lucky.
4. Anaheim is pretty good.
5. San Jose has no elite players.
6. Arizona sucks.
It is a just a great turn of events that Vegas arrived at a time when the majority of the Pacific teams are trending downwards. It beats playing in the Central where you have Nashville and Winnipeg and everyone else is solid.
The Pacific:
1. Oilers are mentally fragile and have no defense.
2. Calgary is inexperienced and lack a true 1C.
3. Los Angeles still can't score, they suck and just get lucky.
4. Anaheim is pretty good.
5. San Jose has no elite players.
6. Arizona sucks.
IceNeophyte
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Vs TBL: 2-0-0
Vs BOS: 1-1-0
Vs WSH: 2-0-0
Vs Pens: 1-1-0
Vs TOR: 1-0-1
Vs CBJ: 2-0-0
Vs NSH: 2-1-0
Vs WPG: 2-0-1
Yep, definitely the horrible Pacific is why Vegas is successful.
Vs BOS: 1-1-0
Vs WSH: 2-0-0
Vs Pens: 1-1-0
Vs TOR: 1-0-1
Vs CBJ: 2-0-0
Vs NSH: 2-1-0
Vs WPG: 2-0-1
Yep, definitely the horrible Pacific is why Vegas is successful.
hotcabbagesoup
why u guys want Celebrini, he played like a weenie
I mentioned the weak Pacific as a contributing factor, not the sole reason for success. I wasn't trying to discredit what the team has done.
However, we do feast on the Flames, Canucks, Coyotes and we do have three losses to Minny so it seems like the Central gives us a harder time.
Head-to-Head vs. Opponents
| Rk | Franchise | GP | W | L | T | OL | PTS | PTS% | GF | GA | GF/G ▼ | GA/G |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Calgary Flames | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 1.000 | 15 | 5 | 5.00 | 1.67 |
| 2 | Vancouver Canucks | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 1.000 | 15 | 6 | 5.00 | 2.00 |
| 3 | Chicago Blackhawks | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 1.000 | 14 | 8 | 4.67 | 2.67 |
| 4 | Ottawa Senators | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 9 | 9 | 4.50 | 4.50 |
| 5 | Toronto Maple Leafs | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | .750 | 9 | 7 | 4.50 | 3.50 |
| 6 | Colorado Avalanche | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | .833 | 12 | 3 | 4.00 | 1.00 |
| 7 | Winnipeg Jets | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | .667 | 12 | 11 | 4.00 | 3.67 |
| 8 | Florida Panthers | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | .750 | 8 | 6 | 4.00 | 3.00 |
| 9 | Montreal Canadiens | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 8 | 6 | 4.00 | 3.00 |
| 10 | Tampa Bay Lightning | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 1.000 | 8 | 4 | 4.00 | 2.00 |
| 11 | San Jose Sharks | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | .833 | 11 | 9 | 3.67 | 3.00 |
| 12 | Arizona Coyotes | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 1.000 | 14 | 7 | 3.50 | 1.75 |
| 13 | Buffalo Sabres | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 1.000 | 7 | 5 | 3.50 | 2.50 |
| 14 | Carolina Hurricanes | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | .750 | 7 | 4 | 3.50 | 2.00 |
| 15 | Columbus Blue Jackets | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 7 | 7 | 3.50 | 3.50 |
| 16 | Detroit Red Wings | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 7 | 6 | 3.50 | 3.00 |
| 17 | Washington Capitals | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 1.000 | 7 | 3 | 3.50 | 1.50 |
| 18 | Anaheim Ducks | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6 | .750 | 12 | 8 | 3.00 | 2.00 |
| 19 | New Jersey Devils | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 6 | 10 | 3.00 | 5.00 |
| 20 | New York Rangers | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 6 | 7 | 3.00 | 3.50 |
| 21 | Pittsburgh Penguins | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 6 | 6 | 3.00 | 3.00 |
| 22 | Edmonton Oilers | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 | .500 | 8 | 12 | 2.67 | 4.00 |
| 23 | Los Angeles Kings | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 5 | .625 | 10 | 11 | 2.50 | 2.75 |
| 24 | Dallas Stars | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | .667 | 7 | 7 | 2.33 | 2.33 |
| 25 | Nashville Predators | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | .667 | 7 | 4 | 2.33 | 1.33 |
| 26 | Minnesota Wild | 3 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 | 6 | 13 | 2.00 | 4.33 |
| 27 | Boston Bruins | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 4 | 3 | 2.00 | 1.50 |
| 28 | New York Islanders | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 | 4 | 8 | 2.00 | 4.00 |
| 29 | Philadelphia Flyers | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 4 | 6 | 2.00 | 3.00 |
| 30 | St. Louis Blues | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .500 | 4 | 4 | 2.00 | 2.00 |
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I’m personally not surprised they made the playoffs. I knew this team would be good going back to when the format was released for what teams were able to protect.
A lot of the trades came out as predicted too. Pens giving up extra stuff to unload Fleury was obvious.
There were definitely some big surprises such as Marchessault but Karlsson I expected to be exposed.
I put money down on Vegas to win the Cup when they were 200:1 at the start of the season.
A lot of the trades came out as predicted too. Pens giving up extra stuff to unload Fleury was obvious.
There were definitely some big surprises such as Marchessault but Karlsson I expected to be exposed.
I put money down on Vegas to win the Cup when they were 200:1 at the start of the season.
IceNeophyte
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We also have winning records against almost every team we could face going forward.
Edit: even or winning records.
Last edited:
CDN24
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The only teams you have a losing record against are Min and NYI. Damn impressive.
IceNeophyte
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LadyStanley
Registered User
Don’t blame expansion draft rules for Vegas’ success, blame your GM
A nice look at how other GMs "made mistakes" (especially in hindsight) and GMGM/VGK ended up getting the better end of the deals.
A nice look at how other GMs "made mistakes" (especially in hindsight) and GMGM/VGK ended up getting the better end of the deals.
Pirate Deadpool
Registered User
I'm happy with the way the team was constructed with the exception of the moves made at the trade deadline which I thought were both awful trades. 2018 is a deep draft and not having a pick in the first 2 rounds is a mistake imho.
If Neal and or Perron do not return then picks could be used at that time to snag a winger. "Insurance" for the 2nd line wingers was not needed to be done this far in advance.
If Neal and or Perron do not return then picks could be used at that time to snag a winger. "Insurance" for the 2nd line wingers was not needed to be done this far in advance.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
Yes they do! The picks were staggered from 2018-2021. The Knights pick twice in the top 100 this year.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Don't forget the UFA market. With mild winter weather and a great run this past season, and a bunch of cap space, they may be a very desirable destination during this summer signing period.
Tavares (NYI) may be the hottest commodity out there.
Tavares (NYI) may be the hottest commodity out there.
Yeah because an 18 year old could slot in perfectly for guys who have been in the league as long as these two guys have. Your arguments again make no sense. You don't have to like Tatar but you at least have to agree he has a much better chance of giving the team something for the next 3 years than anyone they could have drafted in the 20s or 30s of the first round of the draft.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Bourne: What the other 30 GMs can learn from the Vegas...
Bourne looks at how VGK put together
(Paywall)
Bourne looks at how VGK put together
(Paywall)
IceNeophyte
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I agree completely with take. Plus we have an embarrassment of riches from the 17 draft, so skipping 1st round this draft is no setback.
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