How would you rebuild the Canucks' defence next offseason?

[UK Canuck]

IF we re-sign Toffoli, I'd look at trading Virtanen, a guy like Caleb Jones from the Oilers, Jake Bean from the Hurricanes would be targets, I'd also try and sign Tim Heed as a solid 3rd pairing RHD

 

[UK Canuck]

I'd also look at maybe trying to trade high on Tanner Pearson, as a GM you have to plan as if Michael Ferland is going to be healthy and ready to play for the next 3 years, we can't bank on him being on IR forever

 

[Bob Long]

It's not just that Slavin has the value of Pettersson or Hughes (that is arguable, though). It's that Carolina has no reason to trade Slavin unless it makes sense for them. Their team is poised to be a Cup contender this season, why would they trade their #1 dman for a 3rd line winger? It makes no sense from Carolina's point of view.

But yes, Slavin is not the type of defenceman that you can judge based on his stats. He's got great analytics/underlying numbers and is probably a top 5 defensive dman in the league, while also capable of putting up 40+ points. That's pretty damn rare in the NHL, and he's signed to a steal of a contract at $5.3 million until the end of the 2024-2025 season.

You're not going to get a young top 4 dman for Virtanen without adding a significant asset. It's best to target a young dman who has just entered the league and hasn't established himself as a top 4 dman, but has the upside/potential to be one. I'm thinking Fleury or Bean out of Carolina would make some sense.

But he hasn't put up 40+ points yet. I think this is where we might differ, imo he gets a lot of benefit from the scoring around him in Carolina and would not be nearly as productive on another team. His expected production is lower than his actual production. Its easy to think he'd continue that elsewhere, but given what he's surrounded with its just as easy to over value him too. Slavin is an excellent 2nd pairing guy on a competitive team, imo based on how much he benefits from his surroundings from a production pov.

On that list you provided Trouba is ranked well below Slavin, to me thats just ridiculous.

Fleury is an interesting idea given where both Jake and he were picked.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

But he hasn't put up 40+ points yet. I think this is where we might differ, imo he gets a lot of benefit from the scoring around him in Carolina and would not be nearly as productive on another team. His expected production is lower than his actual production. Its easy to think he'd continue that elsewhere, but given what he's surrounded with its just as easy to over value him too. Slavin is an excellent 2nd pairing guy on a competitive team, imo based on how much he benefits from his surroundings from a production pov.

On that list you provided Trouba is ranked well below Slavin, to me thats just ridiculous.

Fleury is an interesting idea given where both Jake and he were picked.

Oh come on, he's just entering his prime and was on pace for 43 points this season. He had a monster playoffs last year too, 11 points in 15 games.

Slavin actually got less time on the powerplay than both Hamilton and Gardiner this season (based on average powerplay time per game). Your take could also be applied to Hughes, who gets 1st unit PP time and gets to feed Pettersson/Miller/Boeser/etc.

I don't think Slavin is a 2nd pairing dman considering he's a top pairing dman on a competitive playoff team right now.

 

[vancityluongo]

sorry got the salary wrong, I thought he was in the 4 mil range. But regardless, yes I do think Virtanen could net is a 2nd pairing d.

I also think you are over valuing Slavin a bit, he's not "top 15".

He's not a second pairing defenseman. I was gonna say top-10 lol. He's very, very good.

If you don't trust an HF poll, here are NHL.com writers ranking him above Hughes. And now note that he's signed long term at just above $5M.

Super 16: Top defensemen playing in Stanley Cup Qualifiers

wow. Petey or Hughes? I guess you guys have seen something more out of Slavin than I have to value him that high.

Fine if Slavin is off the table, what 2nd pairing D would you target using Jake as the main piece? (assuming Jake + prospect or non-1st add in).

Carolina is definitely a great team to target. I've mentioned Pesce (but you'd need to move Miller/Horvat to get him); and he'd be a first pair solution. As mentioned, Fleury and Bean are reasonable Virtanen-level swap options.

I'd also like to snag Sami Vatanen if possible as a free agent - he'd be a perfect fit on the second pair next to Edler.

A couple other options I can think of that might be available and would slot in at the second pair (-ish) level; Caleb Jones (EDM), Will Butcher (NJ), Brandon Montour (BUF), Sami Niku (WPG).

I don't watch those teams or players really enough to know whether or not I'd do those trades necessarily, but based on what I know, that's the level of player I'd expect.

 

[Bob Long]

He's not a second pairing defenseman. I was gonna say top-10 lol. He's very, very good.

If you don't trust an HF poll, here are NHL.com writers ranking him above Hughes. And now note that he's signed long term at just above $5M.

Super 16: Top defensemen playing in Stanley Cup Qualifiers



Carolina is definitely a great team to target. I've mentioned Pesce (but you'd need to move Miller/Horvat to get him); and he'd be a first pair solution. As mentioned, Fleury and Bean are reasonable Virtanen-level swap options.

I'd also like to snag Sami Vatanen if possible as a free agent - he'd be a perfect fit on the second pair next to Edler.

A couple other options I can think of that might be available and would slot in at the second pair (-ish) level; Caleb Jones (EDM), Will Butcher (NJ), Brandon Montour (BUF), Sami Niku (WPG).

I don't watch those teams or players really enough to know whether or not I'd do those trades necessarily, but based on what I know, that's the level of player I'd expect.

Well, that means either I'm wrong about him being 2nd pairing, or he has the worst agent in the NHL because thats how he's paid.

I think we're undervaluing Jake, he's still quite young and brings power forward potential. Things like his bar antics this week tend to make people see him here as a dum dum, but there's a lot there to like. On the right team Jake could be a beast.

 

[Bob Long]

Oh come on, he's just entering his prime and was on pace for 43 points this season. He had a monster playoffs last year too, 11 points in 15 games.

Slavin actually got less time on the powerplay than both Hamilton and Gardiner this season (based on average powerplay time per game). Your take could also be applied to Hughes, who gets 1st unit PP time and gets to feed Pettersson/Miller/Boeser/etc.

I don't think Slavin is a 2nd pairing dman considering he's a top pairing dman on a competitive playoff team right now.

But thats only because of all the time he got on the 1st unit PP due to the injuries. He has 13 secondary assists as well, which is pretty high. Of course he's good, I just don't think he's as good on the offensive side, I don't think he's the primary point driver in the scoring situations.

 

[Fatass]

To retool our D don’t we need at least one compliance buyout, so we can free up cap space?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Well, that means either I'm wrong about him being 2nd pairing, or he has the worst agent in the NHL because thats how he's paid.

I think we're undervaluing Jake, he's still quite young and brings power forward potential. Things like his bar antics this week tend to make people see him here as a dum dum, but there's a lot there to like. On the right team Jake could be a beast.

I don't think Slavin has a bad agent. He signed that deal after his 2nd NHL season, having put up 34 points. He's getting over $37 million over 7 years, and he can cash in big time when he becomes a UFA at 31 years old. Who is to say he doesn't suffer a career ending injury at some point? Having secured $37 million is great for a player at his age. Josi did something similar, signing for $4 million for 7 years, even though he's now a perennial Norris nominee.

Virtanen is still a bit of a project. He's a great bottom 6 winger. Bottom 6 wingers do not return 26 year old top pairing defencemen on amazing contracts.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

But thats only because of all the time he got on the 1st unit PP due to the injuries. He has 13 secondary assists as well, which is pretty high. Of course he's good, I just don't think he's as good on the offensive side, I don't think he's the primary point driver in the scoring situations.

It doesn't matter. I wrote that he's "capable of 40+ points" - which he is, based on this season. While I don't watch Carolina very often and am by no means an expert on Slavin's play, he seems to register a lot of points from his transition game (breakout pass from the defensive zone), which is a valuable part of the game. His ability to get the puck out of his zone leads to generating more offence for his team. Pointing out the amount of secondary assists just completely misses the point on what Slavin brings to the table, IMO.

 

[tradervik]

OK, 2 [email protected] per and have hi come back in 2 years and demand 6+ per

You do not know? Right! That is the gamble

If it turns out Tryamkin is good enough to ask for $6 million / year on his next contract, I will gladly take that risk over signing him for 4 years and he turns out to be no more than a bottom pairing guy who is paid way too much. The Canucks have accumulated too many overpaid depth players to risk adding any more.

 

[UK Canuck]

why do people still want Tryamkin to come over AND pay him handsomely for the privilege? he isnt good at Hockey

 

[tradervik]

Forget about getting a proven top 4 defender. We should be looking for the next Marcus Pettersson.

 

[Hit the post]

Well, if you know Virtanen then you know his stats........2019-2020 season

-tied for 33rd in point by a RW
-tied foir 25th in goals by a RW
-27th in hits by a RWer
-19th in take aways

Not chicken feed!

All the while playing only 13:06 per game. And pretty much everyone above him in points playing an extra 2 minutes a game or more per night...........

As a 5th OA pick who is 22 years old and has year over year, increased his point production, I would say Jake's value
is NilsLundqvist and a late first by himself.

Admittedly, Juolevi is a throw in at this point, but his last years play was much better and his chance of playing in the NHL are much better than earlier in his career. Albeit his leash is not as long as it once was.

In saying that , I would take Virtanen and 2023-3rd for Lundqvist and 2020 1st

I also think the risk is all Vancouver's in this trade........Lundqvist may never make the NHL nor the 1st

D are significantly harder to replace than wingers.

If a team offered me a 1st line *CENTER*, forget winger for Hughes, I'd hang up the phone and laugh. And that's even if we didn't have EP on the team.

 

[Bob Long]

I don't think Slavin has a bad agent. He signed that deal after his 2nd NHL season, having put up 34 points. He's getting over $37 million over 7 years, and he can cash in big time when he becomes a UFA at 31 years old. Who is to say he doesn't suffer a career ending injury at some point? Having secured $37 million is great for a player at his age. Josi did something similar, signing for $4 million for 7 years, even though he's now a perennial Norris nominee.

Virtanen is still a bit of a project. He's a great bottom 6 winger. Bottom 6 wingers do not return 26 year old top pairing defencemen on amazing contracts.

yeah maybe so, I could be wrong. For me it seems like Slavin is a bit over rated offensively and Jake is a bit under rated, particularly by the home crowd.

If I were looking at Jake from the outside I think you could argue he's a late bloomer like Joel Ward but with more upside. On the right team Jake is a 50+ point winger with speed and size. If we're going to move him it needs to be for a legit 2nd pairing d.

So fair enough, thats probably not Slavin. But to me Jake is not a 'bust' or a project for project type of swap player. Or bottom 6 - Jake proved that with the time Green gave him on the top 6 this year imo.

 

[Bob Long]

why do people still want Tryamkin to come over AND pay him handsomely for the privilege? he isnt good at Hockey

he isn't top pairing material, but he does have an intriguing skill set and can crush people at will. If he puts it together to even be a reasonable 5/6 its worth the wait.

 

[Fatass]

he isn't top pairing material, but he does have an intriguing skill set and can crush people at will. If he puts it together to even be a reasonable 5/6 its worth the wait.

What will our D look like next season, especially considering the cap stagnating. It’s going to be young. And a guy like Rathbone could definitely be playing top four minutes very quickly.
Hughes Myers
Edler Tryamkin
Juiolevi Rafferty
Rathbone

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Why does it always feel like one step forward and 2 steps back with this team and our D?

 

[RebuildinVan]

Why does it always feel like one step forward and 2 steps back with this team and our D?

It could be three steps backwards soon if none of Utica guys can contribute legit minutes. This still relies so much on Edler and Tanev

 

[flying v 604]

Let Tanev + Markstrom walk, buyout or trade Sutter, re-sign Toffoli & Leivo, trade Virtanen for some defensive help(Jake Bean from CAR, MacKenzie Weegar from FLA, maybe Nils Lundqvist from NYR given their already set at RHD with Trouba, D'Angelo & Fox)

Tbh, its going to be incredibly difficult given the cap situation we have now and moving forward, re-signing Toffoli should be the priority of the big 3 UFA's, he adds the most value and certainty moving forward, Tanev should just be allowed to walk unless we can get him below what he's paid now for 2 years or less

I think the Rangers might part with Lundquist for Rathbone and maybe a small add.
They are also close to the cap and are stacked with RHD depth but not on the left side.
When it comes to our cap situation, I think LE will be gone after his bonus and Baer as well. If Baer wants to have any chance at all to get a contract next year he needs to play somewhere other than the AHL.
Playing over seas or signing a cheap contract with a team like the Sens or wings, allows him to at least showcase himself.
Let's be real, does anyone think he will ride the bus in Utica for 5 mill when hes made over 60 mill in his career? When he could easily play closer to Dallas on a cheap contract if he still has the urge to play. Nucks could simply do what the Panthers did with Lou and hire him to scout the Dallas area or any type of position.
That right there allows Benning to sign the big 3, letting Stecher walk along with Fanta among other minor deals actually allows Benning to upgrade the bottom pairing.
Tanev is open to a one year deal but if Benning has a chance to upgrade id use his cap plus whatever savings we get from letting Stecher, Fanta, Motte walk plus whatever else may happen, I would gladly see us in the AP sweepstakes. Especially since after next season we only have Hughes and Myers under contract and almost all the high-end contracts that most of us want off the books expire and most can be filled internally.

 

[EXTRAS]

What do people see as rafferty's upside?

 

[rypper]

I wonder if we could late-stage transition Eriksson into a defenseman.

 

[82Ninety42011]

I wonder if we could late-stage transition Eriksson into a defenseman.

Sure why not paying a Dman 6 per to sit in box upstairs is better then paying a forward same .

 

[Hit the post]

I wonder if we could late-stage transition Eriksson into a defenseman.

Don't you think Finn has been around long enough? I wonder if LE will fit into the suit?

 

[rypper]

Don't you think Finn has been around long enough? I wonder if LE will fit into the suit?

For some reason the idea of Loui in the Fin suit with like a quarter of the energy is hilarious to me. Just moping about like Eeyore.