How would Peter Forsberg perform in today’s game at his peak?

GreatGonzo

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Bam there you go.
I don’t get it. Your arguing something that is clearly in favor of Crosby, so why are you arguing about it?

Could have Forsberg had better seasons if he was healthier overall? Yes....but he didn’t. Doesn’t mean what he did wasn’t impressive, especially for someone who only played that many “full” seasons. I mean the 5 times he did play 70 or more games, he finished among the top in scoring(1,2,4,5,9), assists(1,2,3,4,6), PPG(1,2,4,5,6)....with an Ross, Hart, and being a three time First team AS center.

I don’t mean to glorify him, but it’s obvious what he was capable of IF he was healthy. The same could be said about Crosby as well.
Malkin has been better than Crosby in two regular seasons while both are healthy (08-09, 17-18)
Yes.....like I said, he has never been “superior” compared to Malkin. Those two seasons also happen to be the only two they played healthy at the same time, all while Malkin had an amazing season when Crosby was out in ‘08, and arguably a better season than anything Crosby has done in ‘12. Malkin was right there with Crosby production wise before getting hurt in both 2016 and 2017.

Crosby gets full credit for putting together more high end seasons. I don’t understand why you always feel the need to defend that.
I think he would perform sort of how he did back then. I think it's overstated how much the game has changed.

It's changed a lot, sure, but people act like they were playing basketball 20 years ago.
But the changes are obviously much more positive. Forsberg was in the scoring race for a decent chunk of the 2006 season. He adjusted just fine to this new era of scoring.

He was dealing with much lower scoring conditions with more physicality during his prime.
 
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Chimpradamus

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I'm not sure what your point is.

Look at the players Forsberg was competing with back then.... Crosby's competition doesn't hold a candle to them.
Not to mention Crosby never had to perform with a player hanging on his back, slashing or hooking him basically all the time. When the defense couldn't keep up, they did so with methods that would've been a penalty any time in the 2005+ era. It was a different era, it's difficult to compare.
 
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Chimpradamus

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Ok, the dead puck era is just a myth. Teams didn't play more defensively, scoring wasn't down, liberties defensively weren't quite high. All hits from Scott Stevens were clean. I get it.

You remember an era that had legit rivalries? And how the game today has none, even when the league are down on their knees to artifically create some, but it still doesn't work? Ever wonder why that is so? Apparently not. And in this era that didn't exist, Forsberg dominated. Is it the existence of an era or the domination of Forsberg that is the problem here, or both?
 
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MightySelanne8

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Forsberg was ridiculous, he would absolutely be the best or second best forward in todays game, only behind McDavid. That is, if he would be healthy. One of the few guys I was always afraid to see play against Finland.
 

Chimpradamus

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What is the argument to support your that the best offensive player of this era would struggle in the DPE. That all the best players from this era would not do as well in the DPE. It makes no sense whatever and there plenty of DPE-era players who also were in their prime from 2005 onwards who did not increase their stature in the league.
Why Crosby would struggle in the DPE? Because he wasn't that mentally strong in his earlier years and often threw tantrums over nonsense. If he was constantly slashed, hooked and held, I have a feeling Crosby mentally would have had a very hard time in his younger years. He responded the wrong way, contrary to Forsberg. Considering what players had to endure during the DPE, considering what Crosby got upset over, physical defensemen would've had a field day with him to get him out of his zone. I think Crosby would've done worse. Crosby didn't get better, he pouted and threw a fit when challenged.

Why Forsberg would've produced better during the post DPE? First of all, his injuries would've been significantly less in both severity and magnitude, big time. He wouldn't have been faster, but his grit and strength on the puck would've been ridiculous to parry. He was the master of offensive hits to keep possession and I think his balance down low was even better than Crosbys. Crosby stickhandled and moved, Forsberg just refused to fall.

I think he easily would've thrived in an era where he didn't need an opponent backpack to get guys open. And if he was pushed and got mad, he was only much worse to handle. And his physicality today wouldn't exactly be a nutcase like Wilson, he would probably be without many suspensions. Maybe two or so.

Crosby tried to slewfoot and cheap shot opponents when he got mad, or just got a penalty from his natural tantrum. Forsberg stared at them and mauled them two shifts later - and their teammates for the rest of the game. Forsberg became really mean if the opposition tested him and not by slashing back, but by plastering them. That was the mental difference between the two. Crosby retaliated. Forsberg escalated.

Crosby threw a tantrum when he got pissed. Forsberg wanted to destroy the opposition when he got angry, both in points and blood. That was the difference. Guess why Forsberg was injured so much? Because he never backed down from a tough son of a bitch, not even in game 2 of the season, it just energized him. And in the playoffs? He refused to sit when he had a spleen surgery removal, let's just put it that way.

Forsberg would've had a field day in this no touch, shot blocking era, because his shot was never that great to begin with and he loved puck movement and unexpected passes. While Crosby would've struggled mentally alot more with the tough guys in the DPE. That is my argument. And they shouldn't even be compared in the first place, because all of it is hypothetical.
 
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NoMessi

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Why would you think that comparing point totals from different seasons straight up makes any sense?

Taking everything out of context once again Daver. Are you friends with Jori Lehtärä?
 

blundluntman

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Forsberg would've challenged for, if not won the Ross and Hart this past season at his peak. Idk what would happen if McDavid had a decent PP and wasn't sick for that month but I could see him hitting around 110 at his peak in this era.
 

ayoshi

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hockey was more physical when forsberg was playing... not to mention all the stickwork... so yeah he would maintain his physicality and be dominant.

Releasing prime, healthy Forsberg on today's NHL would be like releasing a wolf on a pack of sheep :laugh:
 
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Pez68

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How do you come to this conclusion if their respective competitions did not face each other?

Except...they did. A 44 year old Jagr, in 2015-2016, finished with 66 points in 79 games. Crosby, 16 years younger, finished with 85 in 80. Yeah.
 

daver

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Except...they did. A 44 year old Jagr, in 2015-2016, finished with 66 points in 79 games. Crosby, 16 years younger, finished with 85 in 80. Yeah.

So one cherrypicked season by one cherrypicked player where he got oputscored by 26% is irrefutable proof that all players in the DPE were better than today's players?

What about a 35 five year old Jagr vs. 19 year old Crosby? 1.17 PPG vs. 1.52 PPG What about a 36 five year old Jagr vs. 20 year old Crosby? 0.87 vs. 1.35

What about......actually let's just add up all the seasons prior to 2015/16. Jagr - 0.84 Crosby - 1.38 Crosby was 64% better.

So in conclusion, as you would put it, Yeah.




 

daver

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Why Crosby would struggle in the DPE? Because he wasn't that mentally strong in his earlier years and often threw tantrums over nonsense. If he was constantly slashed, hooked and held, I have a feeling Crosby mentally would have had a very hard time in his younger years. He responded the wrong way, contrary to Forsberg. Considering what players had to endure during the DPE, considering what Crosby got upset over, physical defensemen would've had a field day with him to get him out of his zone. I think Crosby would've done worse. Crosby didn't get better, he pouted and threw a fit when challenged.



"Sidney Crosby scores Overtime Goal to get Pens win over Flyers after getting teeth broken earlier in the game by Hatcher."

Crosby had a three point game and torched the Flyers his whole career.

Next.....
 

daver

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Why Crosby would struggle in the DPE? Because he wasn't that mentally strong in his earlier years and often threw tantrums over nonsense. If he was constantly slashed, hooked and held, I have a feeling Crosby mentally would have had a very hard time in his younger years. He responded the wrong way, contrary to Forsberg. Considering what players had to endure during the DPE, considering what Crosby got upset over, physical defensemen would've had a field day with him to get him out of his zone. I think Crosby would've done worse. Crosby didn't get better, he pouted and threw a fit when challenged.

Why Forsberg would've produced better during the post DPE? First of all, his injuries would've been significantly less in both severity and magnitude, big time. He wouldn't have been faster, but his grit and strength on the puck would've been ridiculous to parry. He was the master of offensive hits to keep possession and I think his balance down low was even better than Crosbys. Crosby stickhandled and moved, Forsberg just refused to fall.

I think he easily would've thrived in an era where he didn't need an opponent backpack to get guys open. And if he was pushed and got mad, he was only much worse to handle. And his physicality today wouldn't exactly be a nutcase like Wilson, he would probably be without many suspensions. Maybe two or so.

Crosby tried to slewfoot and cheap shot opponents when he got mad, or just got a penalty from his natural tantrum. Forsberg stared at them and mauled them two shifts later - and their teammates for the rest of the game. Forsberg became really mean if the opposition tested him and not by slashing back, but by plastering them. That was the mental difference between the two. Crosby retaliated. Forsberg escalated.

Crosby threw a tantrum when he got pissed. Forsberg wanted to destroy the opposition when he got angry, both in points and blood. That was the difference. Guess why Forsberg was injured so much? Because he never backed down from a tough son of a *****, not even in game 2 of the season, it just energized him. And in the playoffs? He refused to sit when he had a spleen surgery removal, let's just put it that way.

Forsberg would've had a field day in this no touch, shot blocking era, because his shot was never that great to begin with and he loved puck movement and unexpected passes. While Crosby would've struggled mentally alot more with the tough guys in the DPE. That is my argument. And they shouldn't even be compared in the first place, because all of it is hypothetical.

And Crosby would have a field day against slower d-men, and worse defensive systems and would take more advantage of his incredible leg strength. See, I can play the baseless speculation game too.

There is zero reason to think any player from the DPE would magically be better in today's game. Less physical and smaller sized players like Sakic, Kariya and St. Louis did not have an issuein the DPE.
 

Pez68

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So one cherrypicked season by one cherrypicked player where he got oputscored by 26% is irrefutable proof that all players in the DPE were better than today's players?

What about a 35 five year old Jagr vs. 19 year old Crosby? 1.17 PPG vs. 1.52 PPG What about a 36 five year old Jagr vs. 20 year old Crosby? 0.87 vs. 1.35

What about......actually let's just add up all the seasons prior to 2015/16. Jagr - 0.84 Crosby - 1.38 Crosby was 64% better.

So in conclusion, as you would put it, Yeah.


I'm not even sure what the f*** the point of this argument is. I simply stated that Forsberg would be a top 3 player in the league today. For some reason, Crosby's finishes in the scoring race were brought up to somehow refute that opinion. Why the hell are we comparing an over-the-hill Jagr to prime Crosby, in a thread about Forsberg? This is nonsensical at this point.

We get it. Crosby is the bestest player to ever play. Nobody is even on the same planet! Now can we stop talking about Crosby?
 
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Nithoniniel

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I think the differences in eras tend to get overstated. Forsberg would have done fine in today's NHL. Maybe a little bit better. He'd most likely be seen in the same way though. An immensely talented and impressive player whose career was cut short.
 

daver

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I'm not even sure what the **** the point of this argument is. I simply stated that Forsberg would be a top 3 player in the league today. For some reason, Crosby's finishes in the scoring race were brought up to somehow refute that opinion. Why the hell are we comparing an over-the-hill Jagr to prime Crosby, in a thread about Forsberg? This is nonsensical at this point.

We get it. Crosby is the bestest player to ever play. Nobody is even on the same planet! Now can we stop talking about Crosby?

I agree he would be a Top 3 player in the league today and would have challenged for the the Art Ross in the last two years if he played a full season at his peak.
 

Phil McKraken

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What's interesting about Forsberg and Crosby is how similar their physiques are. Neither is that tall but they both have a wide and sturdy body type that is instantly recognizable and very rare, which allows for incredible puck protection. Forsberg could use that as much today as he did back then, and he was a good skater too.
 
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