How would Nordiques have fared if they stayed from 96-98?

[WingsFan95]

Aside from having this:

Be seen on players hosting the Cup=Just plain nice.

Would the Nordiques have become the more popular team in Quebec? Or financially skyrocketed?

And yes, this is assuming Roy makes his way to the team, I don't think he'd have an issue playing in french-only speaking Quebec and wanting to play the Habs more often every year.

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[Big Phil]

They'd have won a Cup.........still. We can assume Roy still goes to the team, and if that's the case then why not? They had some horrible officiating go against them in 1995 which might have cost them a chance at the Cup. They were just more seasoned in 1996.

 

[Anthrax Jones]

I just can't see Roy having ended up there, under any circumstance. I do think the Nords would have made a push to obtain either Khabibulin or eventually Belfour, and certainly wouldve had the assets to do so. The Nords' main competition in the East during that era wouldve been the declining Rangers, the declining Penguins, the peaking Devils, the emerging (but overrated) Flyers, and the Buffalo Haseks. Do the Nords end up with Claude Lemieux as part of the threeway deal that sent Stumpy Thomas to the Devils and Wendel Clark to the Isles? Or are the Devils hesitant to send the Conn Smythe winner to an emerging conference power? Short term, that's alot of questions that wouldn't just have affected the 96-98 Nords, but the team that wouldve subsequently moved from Quebec to...Minnesota? Atlanta?

How do the expansion Colorado Avalanche look today? Struggling after being forced to deal Dany Heatley, Marian Hossa, and Ilya Kovalchuk?

I also deeply believe there wouldve been an Islanders/Fisherman-level backlash against those new uniforms.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

1. i don't see any foreseeable situation where savard trades roy to the nordiques. but even if we overlook that,

2. could quebec have possibly matched new york's big front-loaded offer to sakic in '97? that was the year of the asian financial crisis, which set the canadian dollar into a death spiral. so i doubt it.

 

[buffalowing88]

1. i don't see any foreseeable situation where savard trades roy to the nordiques. but even if we overlook that,

2. could quebec have possibly matched new york's big front-loaded offer to sakic in '97? that was the year of the asian financial crisis, which set the canadian dollar into a death spiral. so i doubt it.

I think this is a key point. That said, we have to consider a team with Forsberg and Roy a contender. The only four teams they would have had to deal with from 96-98 would have been Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York, and Buffalo. I think one of those three years they get by that grouping and make it to the cup finals. Without a juggernaut like Colorado in the West, I believe Chicago keeps their core together, however, and will be battling Detroit for the other spot in the finals each year.

Off the top of my head, i'd say Pittsburgh wins in 96 over Detroit, Chicago wins in 97 over Philadelphia (with Roenick and Chelios who chose to stay), and Quebec wins in 98 over Chicago.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Agreed about Roy not being traded to the Nords. Half the appeal of shipping him to Colorado is that you only have to face him twice a year because he's in the opposite conference.

 

[begbeee]

Quebec would win at least one Stanley Cup during late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[JaymzB]

If Quebec stays, Roy doesn’t get traded there IMO. So, a big question is where does he go? If it is Detroit, I could conceivably see them winning every Cup from at least from 1996-2000, since they only lost to Roy in those years (though Dallas still would have been tough in 99 and 2000).

In the East, Quebec would have been a powerhouse no doubt, though keeping Sakic would have been difficult. Financially, no matter how well they did on the ice, they would be facing a situation where they receive funds in a very weak CND $, and pay in US $, and were playing in an aging, and financially un-lucrative building. The Habs had a tough enough time during that period, and they had just moved to a state of the art building. I can’t see Quebec lasting.

 

[brianscot]

If Montreal had traded Patrick Roy to the Nords, then any person in Montreal who uttered the name Rejean Houle would have their head automatically explode.

Although if Quebec had acquired Roy and later, Raymond Bourque, then a ridiculously fun rivalry would have taken on an even more culturally intense flavor.

Those uniforms kinda look like something the Northeastern Huskies mascot would refuse to wear.

 

[tony d]

Roy would have never been a Nordique but I do think the team would have gotten Ed Belfour in the summer of 1997 as a free agent. Don't know if they win a Cup between 1996 and 1998 though as Patrick Roy probably would have went to Detroit.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I have a very hard time imagining the Nords raiding the UFA and trade market in the middle of a financial crisis. If anything, they would likely have unloaded key players like Sakic and Forsberg in the face of competition from the Sathers of the league. Even pursuing someone like Belfour would have been pushing it, as he would have been higher-paid than Sakic at the time. The salary dynamic simply didn't work in the favor of a small-market Canadian team at that moment in history.

IMO it would have been a very short window for them to try and win with the roster they had in 1996.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I could see Roy going to a Quebec team in the twilight of his career, but he wouldn't have been traded there directly.

 

[begbeee]

I have a very hard time imagining the Nords raiding the UFA and trade market in the middle of a financial crisis. If anything, they would likely have unloaded key players like Sakic and Forsberg in the face of competition from the Sathers of the league. Even pursuing someone like Belfour would have been pushing it, as he would have been higher-paid than Sakic at the time. The salary dynamic simply didn't work in the favor of a small-market Canadian team at that moment in history.

IMO it would have been a very short window for them to try and win with the roster they had in 1996.

What is actually what they did.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What is actually what they did.

Which is actually what they did... on the backs of Roy and Lemieux. The former would almost certainly not have been traded there. The latter is a pretty significant "maybe".

Again, I have a hard time imagining a small-market Canadian team raiding the trade market in 1996, for the same reason that teams like the Hurricanes don't do that in 2011.

 

[jkrx]

Roy wouldnt have been traded to the Nordiques. He would've ended up in Detroit or one of the other contenders like Maple Leafs, Flames or Blackhawks. Nordiques would've either grabbed another goalie or kept on going with Fiset and Thibault. There's also the possibillity of Ranford, Cheveldae or Irbe going to Nordiques.

 

[begbeee]

Which is actually what they did... on the backs of Roy and Lemieux. The former would almost certainly not have been traded there. The latter is a pretty significant "maybe".

Again, I have a hard time imagining a small-market Canadian team raiding the trade market in 1996, for the same reason that teams like the Hurricanes don't do that in 2011.

The great goalie was their missing piece, but the core of the team was from Nordiques. I see your point, anyway.

 

[JT Dutch*]

Which is actually what they did... on the backs of Roy and Lemieux.

... Lemieux was 9th in scoring on the Avs in the '96 playoffs. Actually, they won on the backs of Sakic, Kamensky, Forsberg, Ozolinsh, Ricci, Deadmarsh, and Krupp. Gusarov and Foote were also excellent defensively, as was Lefebvre. Roy played well in those playoffs - but if we're talking about a scenario where the Nordiques stay in Quebec, they might have still won that Cup with Fiset and Thibault in the nets. THAT's how strong and deep that team was.

 

[Unaffiliated]

Which is actually what they did... on the backs of Roy and Lemieux.

Not sure how you can say this when that was Sakic's 18-goal postseason Smythe year.

I seem to recall all 6 of his GWG being tie-breakers as well.

 

[tarheelhockey]

... Lemieux was 9th in scoring on the Avs in the '96 playoffs. Actually, they won on the backs of Sakic, Kamensky, Forsberg, Ozolinsh, Ricci, Deadmarsh, and Krupp.

Not sure how you can say this when that was Sakic's 18-goal postseason Smythe year.

Simply looking at Lemieux's playoff stats is not a fair way to judge his value to that team For one thing, he scored 39 goals that season, 2nd on the team and well ahead of Forsberg. In terms of the ~100 game marathon of the season, he was FAR more important than a guy like Krupp who would be forgotten if not for one fluky goal.

But more importantly, IMO there's no way the Avs show up that Red Wing team without Roy and Lemieux (and quietly, Mike Keane) in the locker room. If I could pick two players out of the entire league in 1996 to give my team a chance at a major playoff upset, those players are Patrick Roy and Claude Lemieux. Again, putting the stat sheet aside for a moment... there is a reason those guys were targeted by the Avs once they had the resources to put finishing touches on their roster. Put Rucinsky, Fiset and Clarke in their places and that Wings series turns out differently.

- but if we're talking about a scenario where the Nordiques stay in Quebec, they might have still won that Cup with Fiset and Thibault in the nets. THAT's how strong and deep that team was.

That's all I meant by the original comment. They would have a window of maybe 2 years before the offer sheets started picking the team apart. It's possible they could have done something in that window, it just wouldn't have carried over into making them a perennial contender the way they were in Colorado with more money to burn.

 

[frontsfan2005]

95-96 Nordiques:

- I think they go with Fiset/Thibault, but I think the Nords make a deal at the trade deadline to bring in a veteran backup (prehaps a guy like Kelly Hrudey, who lost his job in LA to Dafoe, and at the end of his contract, could be had at a cheap price).

- Does the team still make the Owen Nolan/Sandis Ozolinsh trade? Nolan was a fan favourite in Quebec, coming off a huge 1995 season, do they still make the trade, or is someone else (Clark maybe?) the centerpiece of that trade? Obviously, the Nords would have to give up more than Clark, probably a high draft pick, or a guy like Deadmarsh included to get Ozolinsh, as SJ was looking for leadership.

- I see them finishing in third place in the more competitive Eastern Conference, and if the rest of the teams below them have the same final standing, a first round matchup against Boston. Quebec would torch Ranford and the Bruins, and Pitts/Phil/Florida win their series, setting up a Quebec/Florida second round. Florida at the time was playing the trap very well, but I think Quebec makes it out, as the Avs were able to sweep Florida in the 96 finals. I think Pittsburgh beats Philly, setting up a Quebec/Pittsburgh ECF. It'd be a high scoring affair, but I think Pittsburgh comes out on top. The Penguins then lose to Detroit in the finals, who coasted through the WC, defeating Anaheim, Winnipeg (who upsets second seed Calgary in the first round), and Chicago.

96-97 Nordiques

- Hrudey walks away as a FA, going to the Sharks, and the Nords trade away Thibault to the Kings for Lacroix and a first. Club picks up Billington in waiver draft to become the backup. Fiset/Billington goaltending duo for season.

- Quebec wins Northeast Division despite some goaltending struggles, as the division is weakened as Pittsburgh and Boston have their struggles. First round matchup is against the seventh seeded Penguins, with Quebec winning in six. Next up is the Flyers, who defeat Quebec in seven games, with Eric Lindros scoring the series winning goal.

97-98 Nordiques

-The reality of being a small-market Canadian team sets in, as Sakic signs an offer sheet with the Rangers that Quebec can't match. Nolan and Kamensky traded away for draft picks, and the Nordiques begin a mini-rebuild, building around Forsberg, Ozolinsh, and a 20 year old Marc Denis.

-Club narrowly makes the playoffs, but is put out in seven games in the first round by the Devils.

 

[ColdSteel2]

No Roy, no Cup.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think this is a key point. That said, we have to consider a team with Forsberg and Roy a contender. The only four teams they would have had to deal with from 96-98 would have been Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York, and Buffalo. I think one of those three years they get by that grouping and make it to the cup finals. Without a juggernaut like Colorado in the West, I believe Chicago keeps their core together, however, and will be battling Detroit for the other spot in the finals each year.

Off the top of my head, i'd say Pittsburgh wins in 96 over Detroit, Chicago wins in 97 over Philadelphia (with Roenick and Chelios who chose to stay), and Quebec wins in 98 over Chicago.

Wouldn't have happened

Reason our 90's team was gutted by Wirtz was over costs. He was cheap POS who dumped Roenick because of money despite telling him he would be a Hawk for life the year before.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Chicago lost Roenick, Belfour, Nicholls and Murphy. Nicholls was on a steep decline, Murphy was pretty stagnant as a 40-50 points guy. Hackett didn't look any worse than Belfour, in fact he may have been the better goalie those years. They replaced Roenick with Zhamnov, which was a downgrade but not a huge one.

I don't think keeping Roenick and Murphy would have been the difference between being the 9th best team in the West and winning the Cup in 97. Really, that team just wasn't that good past 1994.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Chicago lost Roenick, Belfour, Nicholls and Murphy. Nicholls was on a steep decline, Murphy was pretty stagnant as a 40-50 points guy. Hackett didn't look any worse than Belfour, in fact he may have been the better goalie those years. They replaced Roenick with Zhamnov, which was a downgrade but not a huge one.

I don't think keeping Roenick and Murphy would have been the difference between being the 9th best team in the West and winning the Cup in 97. Really, that team just wasn't that good past 1994.

i agree. on top of downgrading on the top end talent (and don't forget the refusal to sign larmer for reasonable dollars, which led to his holdout and eventual trade to hartford), the hawks also lost a lot of solid veteran talent that made them so strong at the beginning of the decade: dirk graham, steve smith, gary suter was aging, brent sutter broke down after '96, matteau, noonan, and keith brown were long gone...

so you basically have replaced a really good leadership and role-playing core with carney and weinrich, who were good, and not much else. they drafted terrible in the 90s and their best picks were late-blooming role players like moreau and cleary, who accomplished nothing until years after the hawks gave up on them.

that team was toast.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But they had Eric Daze, and that would have made them unstoppable!