How to get useless plugs/goons out of the NHL

[nycpunk1]

NHL teams can manufacture a four-line attack with 11 forwards more easily than they can defend with five, but dropping the enforcer is a no-brainer in this era of the hyper-competitive regular season.

This would be the case if dirty hits had any correlation to hockey skills. They don't. You are also discounting the value to hockey of players like the Merlot Line, who shut down opponents, lay down big legal hits, and change the momentum of the game. Take any Shawn Thornton hit-- you can use it as a primer on how to check legally and safely.

I am 100% in favor of removing staged fights from the game. Everyone except the internet hard men are in favor of removing dirty hits. This does nothing to do either.

 

[Gee Wally]

I don't know the logistics of it all, but I think there has to be a solution out there where players are suspended for 10 games per fight if their average ice time-per-game is not over 10 minutes (your average, average player).

This means that players like Iggy, Lucic, McQuaid (just examples on Boston) are not effected by the new rule at all, but talentless 4th line plugs are completely run out of the league.

This would be easy to implement. We are seeing all kinds of rules out there right now to try and limit fighting in an attempt to hurt the goons. We don't need to limit fighting, we need to limit it to players who can fight and not UFC level players like Scott (these are the guys who will kill someone one day).

Thoughts?
Is there a better solution?

For every game a goon gets suspended the team gets fined $100k against the cap and the owner pays that into retirement fund.

Hit the wallet, hit the cap budget. Goon goes way of Dodo.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You make a lot of good points here, but the main point of this thread is not how to eliminate fighting, but how to get useless plugs/goons out of the NHL.

I think most have said that we like guys who can play the game and will fight at times, hit, provide intimidation, etc.

Of the stars that you mentioned, Gretzky was the only one who didn't fight his own battles.

Not that they were good hockey players, but even in their worst years, guys like McSorely and Maki probably exceeded Scott's carreer point totals.

But here's the thing, I've heard people say the following are reasons for fights:

1) Provide emotional lift to dead team
2) Change momentum of the game
3) Deter players from taking cheapshots on your guys

IF you believe those are true, then John Scott (or any other goon) isn't "useless" because they can do all of those things. Even if you are one of the people who are saying "staged" fights aren't good, you'd have to admit that IF you believe a fight can lift a team's emotions, then a staged fight can do that as easily as a non-staged fight.

So, in that scenario these guys AREN'T useless.

However, it's my belief that those listed benefits to fighting are at best vastly overstated, and more likely, non-existent. In that case, teams are hurting themselves by getting guys who can only fight. So why would we want to get rid of them and help other teams?


I guess I just don't see what the issue is here. I'd like fewer bad hockey players in the league in general, but I don't think legislating that is the way to go.

 

[Dr Quincy]

The classic description of pornography could apply to staged fights: "I know it when I see it."

Anyway, if you read his new book, you'll discover that one of those who complains about staged fights and fights after clean hits is Bobby Orr (who is not anti-fighting). So I don't think it's an outlier of a POV.

I can provide any amount of videos of Bruins greats such as O'Reilly, Jonathan, Wensink, Cashman, et al, engaging in "staged fights". Funny how nobody complained about it at the time.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I can provide any amount of videos of Bruins greats such as O'Reilly, Jonathan, Wensink, Cashman, et al, engaging in "staged fights". Funny how nobody complained about it at the time.

Agreed.

"Staged fights" often have more context to them than the average fan understands anyway.

What needs to go is the 4 min a night guy who can only fight (like Scott) who goes looking for hits -that he isn't capable of making cleanly- when nobody wants to fight him..

 

[Number8]

I love emotion based fights in the game. Maybe I shouldn't but I do.

I also loved it back in the day when the Bruins would call up heavies from Providence for a Thursday night game in the Garden against the Habs.

However, things have changed -- and with all due respect, anyone thinking that having a 4 minute guy on the Bruins who does nothing but fight is going to protect them is out of step.

Look no further than last nights game between the Leafs and the Flames for confirmation.

The Leafs (for now look like a decent team with some promise) are a team with some real heavies. Calgary, who now has McGratten, absolutely sucks (read Buffalo & John Scott).

Last night McGratten and McLaren drop the gloves early in the game. Using the logic some throw out there, that should have set the tone. No cheap stuff because there are some real nasty boys on the ice.

What happens later?

Ashton drills Smith right in the numbers and face first into the Boards. Just dumb luck that he wasn't hurt bad on the play.

Go back to the pre-season. Scott tries to fight Phil Kessel of all people. Apparently having Orr and McLaren on the roster wasn't enough to protect Kessel from what would have been quite a one side fight.

McGratten didn't protect Smith from a cheapshot and it was the linesman, not the prospect of answering to Toronto's heavies, that protected Kessel from Scott.