News Article: How to Fix Flyers

[CSKA1974]

Look forward to a dicussion

http://thehockeywriters.com/how-to-fix-the-philadelphia-flyers/

Click to read more...

 

[Flyotes]

I could do with out the "seriously guys" "look!" "think about it." style of writing, but:

Checks the boxes, however:

Didn't get great coaching - (I enjoy seeing some fire out of coaches, I grow tired of Hakstol's continual "Meerkat watching some tigers" stare -- just my Flyote's preference)
Strange usage / scratches
3rd and 4th lines aren't good enough
Gagner situation / Weise
(not sure I consider Schenn a "core" player, but that's a minor and unsettled gripe)
PEB is a super massive black offensive hole, a major solar system revolves around his suck gravity
Not sure I'd call Schenn "gritty" either -- he has a nice shot and a knack for the net, but he's also kind of a blockhead and he seems to collide with objects no worse for it, which is good
-I didn't see anything about the goaltending (but I was reading quickly)

Names a lot of problems, but the stated solution seems to be to quit having fail 3rd and 4th line options.

My personal solutions would be:

I agree with some of how the players were handled, but not all.
Give Dave 1 more season, need to see real player growth and demonstrate his system is a net positive, or he gets the axe.
Pray G is healthy / core returns to form.
Attempt to bring up Lindblom if ready, same with #2 OA.
Trade PEB to anyone, maybe Vegas if they want a "good guy" - unless the international play has suddenly changed him.
Resign Weal if able/makes sense, see what ED holds, let VdV leave, explore options moving on from Read, Raffl.
Resign Ghost to a long term deal.
2 new prospect defensemen (hopefully Hagg, +1 other).
Let ED play out and look at 3rd / 4th line options (FA, Vec, Laughton, etc).
No idea about netminding.
Feed Gudas icelandic ale / grog / bear meat until he is satisfied / appeased / made good with whatever Nordic gods that created him for the upcoming season.
See how the Cousins situation plays out.

Probably missed a few items. Hard to say what happens until ED plays out. Mason/Nevy having down years really screws the team. Building from the net out was working great, the D prospects are in a good spot, forwards are getting a nice infusion, but now netminding is suddenly a glaring problem and a wrench in the building out from the net situation that was running along just fine.

 

[Curufinwe]

A poor article that totally ignores the fact that goalies **** the bed for most of the year. Them dropping from .920 to .905 is why the Flyers missed the playoffs, not a few healthy scratches for Ghost and Konecny and the Weise contract. It also ignores the fact that Hextall went out and got Filppula precisely so they would have three scoring lines. These are not the 3rd and 4th lines that finished the season.


Weise (15 P, 64 GP) – Cousins (16 P, 60 GP) – Read (19 P, 63 GP)
Bellemare (8 P, 82 GP) – VandeVelde (15 P, 81 GP) – Lyubimov (6 P, 47 GP)


Whining about letting Sam Gagner leave is truly laughable. He was given the chance to play with good players here and play on PP2, and he just didn't deliver.

 

[deadhead]

Mostly the same bull that's posted here all the time:

Benching Ghost and Konecny:

Ghost wasn't the dynamic player we saw the year before until the last month or so, he was still effective on the PP, but was a liability at ES, the worst defensive defenseman on the team by a wide margin due to too many bad mistakes. Konency himself admitted he was at fault, making rookie mistakes, like cross ice passes leading to breakaways. Coaches bench young players to give them wake up calls, they talk to the GM about getting rid of older players.

3rd and 4th lines aren't good enough:

NSS. There's a reason Lavi had a 100 point team, go look at the roster those two seasons. Then look at the roster the five years since - and thank Mr Holmgren for negating the impact of two great trades.

Gagner situation / Weise

So how did Columbus do in the playoffs? Just sayin'.
We saw Gagner, if he doesn't play the PP he's as useless as **** on a bull. Weise struggled, but when paired with Couts showed why Hextall signed him. He's a bigger version of Raffl.

PEB is a super massive black offensive hole:

PEB shouldn't be playing C (shades of Schenn) but he can skate, is defensively responsible and can shoot - I'm interested in seeing how he looks at RW. His contract is nothing, $800K above the minimum, that's doesn't preclude any other moves.

Micheal Raffl was wasn’t the speedy winger those guys needed:

Wrong, they started to struggle when Raffl got hurt. That's because G & V are both playmakers and neither is going to fight for the puck in the corner or sit in the crease to screen the goalie. They don't need a speedy LW, they need a mucker to get them the puck, if the mucker can shoot, even better. Which is why Lindblom would be a good fit, but Konecny would not.

I didn't see anything about the goaltending:

Other than being the biggest problem last season . . .


It's been obvious for three years, ever since Hextall took over, that this team lacks depth at forward and had some really sucky defensemen getting lots of PT (Grossman and L Schenn in their "turtles on ice" routine, then Kimmo and Streit did the Dorian Grey thing, then we were left with MacDonald, "Mr Hyde" MDZ, Schultz, and Manning).

This coming season, we should have a deep group of forwards and probably the most talented (though it'll take a couple years to be the best) group of defensemen Flyer fans have ever seen. This is Hakstol's litmus test, Lavi couldn't coach up the dreck he was given, so it really wasn't fair to expect much more from Hakstol. Now that he has real talent, he has to make it work.

If we miss the playoffs b/c the goalies suck again, that's on Hextall, if we miss the playoffs b/c we're in the bottom half in scoring and are dominated on a regular basis, that's on Hakstol.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Mostly the same bull that's posted here all the time:

... and proceeds to post mostly the same bull as always Never change, head.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Ghost wasn't the dynamic player we saw the year before until the last month or so, he was still effective on the PP, but was a liability at ES, the worst defensive defenseman on the team by a wide margin due to too many bad mistakes.

I accept that we will just disagree on many things, but the bolded section is hyperbole? Or is this a specifically narrow discussion and I'm missing the reference?

 

[PALE PWNR]

1. Draft Nico or Nolan and then draft other good players
2. Put Good prospects in lineup
3. ???
4. Profit

 

[Striiker]

Mostly the same bull that's posted here all the time:

Benching Ghost and Konecny:

Ghost wasn't the dynamic player we saw the year before until the last month or so, he was still effective on the PP, but was a liability at ES, the worst defensive defenseman on the team by a wide margin due to too many bad mistakes. Konency himself admitted he was at fault, making rookie mistakes, like cross ice passes leading to breakaways. Coaches bench young players to give them wake up calls, they talk to the GM about getting rid of older players.

3rd and 4th lines aren't good enough:

NSS. There's a reason Lavi had a 100 point team, go look at the roster those two seasons. Then look at the roster the five years since - and thank Mr Holmgren for negating the impact of two great trades.

Gagner situation / Weise

So how did Columbus do in the playoffs? Just sayin'.
We saw Gagner, if he doesn't play the PP he's as useless as **** on a bull. Weise struggled, but when paired with Couts showed why Hextall signed him. He's a bigger version of Raffl.

PEB is a super massive black offensive hole:

PEB shouldn't be playing C (shades of Schenn) but he can skate, is defensively responsible and can shoot - I'm interested in seeing how he looks at RW. His contract is nothing, $800K above the minimum, that's doesn't preclude any other moves.

Micheal Raffl was wasn’t the speedy winger those guys needed:

Wrong, they started to struggle when Raffl got hurt. That's because G & V are both playmakers and neither is going to fight for the puck in the corner or sit in the crease to screen the goalie. They don't need a speedy LW, they need a mucker to get them the puck, if the mucker can shoot, even better. Which is why Lindblom would be a good fit, but Konecny would not.

I didn't see anything about the goaltending:

Other than being the biggest problem last season . . .


It's been obvious for three years, ever since Hextall took over, that this team lacks depth at forward and had some really sucky defensemen getting lots of PT (Grossman and L Schenn in their "turtles on ice" routine, then Kimmo and Streit did the Dorian Grey thing, then we were left with MacDonald, "Mr Hyde" MDZ, Schultz, and Manning).

This coming season, we should have a deep group of forwards and probably the most talented (though it'll take a couple years to be the best) group of defensemen Flyer fans have ever seen. This is Hakstol's litmus test, Lavi couldn't coach up the dreck he was given, so it really wasn't fair to expect much more from Hakstol. Now that he has real talent, he has to make it work.

If we miss the playoffs b/c the goalies suck again, that's on Hextall, if we miss the playoffs b/c we're in the bottom half in scoring and are dominated on a regular basis, that's on Hakstol.

Actually, it doesn't seem at all like your posts...

 

[deadhead]

I accept that we will just disagree on many things, but the bolded section is hyperbole? Or is this a specifically narrow discussion and I'm missing the reference?

The eyeballs and numbers show the same thing.
Despite a grossly disproportionate fraction of O-zone starts, he had the worst GA%/60 at ES by a wide margin, and was second to only Provorov (which included his rough start) in giveaways.

Ghost at his best is average defensively, he can outskate some of his mistakes, but in the D-zone can't handle big forwards in the crease or the corner. As a rookie, his offensive skills compensated, last year, they didn't.

Ideally, you pair him with a physical, defensively responsible partner like Gudas or Provorov, and maybe Morin or Hagg down the road (depending on how the pairings work out).

 

[deadhead]

Fixing the Flyers is easy:

1) draft Nico/Nolan
2) sign Lindblom and put him in the top 9
3) let Cousins, Laughton, Weise/Read/Raffl, MV and PEB fight out out for 4th line duties
4) bring up Morin, Sanheim and Hagg, and exile MacDonald
5) unleash the hounds!

 

[BillDineen]

Pointless article considering the depth added from full seasons of Filppula and Weal, plus 2OA and Lindblom. Sure PEB was resigned, but Hakstol will have more talented options going forward.

Goaltending is the biggest issue facing this team and there is no great "fix".

 

[deadhead]

If they play great and miss the playoffs because of goaltending, I'll be happy, they'll be fun to watch, and with all the goaltenders they have in the system (and look for one more this draft), you know at some point a kid will emerge and they'll make a 20 point jump that season.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The eyeballs and numbers show the same thing.
Despite a grossly disporoortionate fraction of O-zone starts, he had the worst GA%/60 at ES by a wide margin, and was second to only Provorov (which included his rough start) in giveaways.

I'm a little confused here by the bolded, but I think it's just a typo. It wouldn't make any sense to define a rate by percentage because there wouldn't be a need to normalize over a set time span. The percentage has to be the same either way. Are you saying GA/60 or GF%?

If you mean GA/60, he's not the worst according to Corsica, let alone by a wide margin. If you mean GF%, then I would address that by pointing towards the supporting numbers actually saying this is due to the offensive output rather than the defensive.

 

[deadhead]

If you mean GA/60, he's not the worst according to Corsica, let alone by a wide margin. If you mean GF%, then I would address that by pointing towards the supporting numbers actually saying this is due to the offensive output rather than the defensive.

GA. My bad.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/2017.html

Scroll to the bottom table:
GA/60 ES:
Ghost 3.0
Streit 2.7
Manning 2.6
MDZ 2.6
Gudas 2.3
Provorov 2.3
MacDonald 2.1
Schultz 2.1

Some of this reflects an aggressive style of play, but watching the games, Ghost forced too many dangerous passes (i.e. with no one behind him) and he was a stride slow much of the season.

 

[Johnk0728]

GA. My bad.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/2017.html

Scroll to the bottom table:
GA/60 ES:
Ghost 3.0
Streit 2.7
Manning 2.6
MDZ 2.6
Gudas 2.3
Provorov 2.3
MacDonald 2.1
Schultz 2.1

Some of this reflects an aggressive style of play, but watching the games, Ghost forced too many dangerous passes (i.e. with no one behind him) and he was a stride slow much of the season.

The issue with Ghost was that the coach used him wrong and then got into his head. The article had valid points. Weise is useless and PEB getting a contract is ridiculous. But the main point the article made is correct.... Hakstol needs to produce and figure out what identity the Flyers are to be. And for chrissake just let Ghost play creatively and go forward. I was hard on Ghost last year but when he just played fast towards the end of the year; he was more effective. He just needs to ignore Hasktol and the dumbass idea of him try to play defensive hockey.

 

[deadhead]

He played fast because he was healthy, and he also played better defense.

Ghost isn't going to seal people off like Provorov, but he started playing more responsibly, with better positioning in the D-zone and fewer brain dead passes.

It's not an either/or, Ghost is always going to take more chances than Gudas, but young players have to learn that in the NHL you have to be patient, the other teams have great athletes that will pounce on your mistakes so you can't force things, you have to anticipate, have good ice awareness, and pick your spots.

Morin said this year (in his 2nd AHL season) that he finally understood that he couldn't get away with things he did in junior hockey and focused more on positioning. We've seen that with Laughton. Ghost missed a year of AHL hockey when he blew out his knee and that slowed his development on the defensive side, on offense, he can just rely on his superior skills.

Provocop made it look easy, but even he had his share of rookie mistakes.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

GA. My bad.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/2017.html

Scroll to the bottom table:
GA/60 ES:
Ghost 3.0
Streit 2.7
Manning 2.6
MDZ 2.6
Gudas 2.3
Provorov 2.3
MacDonald 2.1
Schultz 2.1

Some of this reflects an aggressive style of play, but watching the games, Ghost forced too many dangerous passes (i.e. with no one behind him) and he was a stride slow much of the season.

Oh ok, you're using HockeyRef.

My first thought was that they're including 3v3 and 4v4 in addition to 5v5, as you did say ES, but that doesn't make the math work either. Corsica would still have him at 2.51 at 5v5 and 2.43 at ES. No matter what I do, it never comes out to 3.0 and I checked the math. The data is wrong on one site or the other.

 

[Striiker]

And of course some will try to pretend that Ghost played better because of being scratched by Hakstol (which is obviously bull****), when in reality it was because he stopped listening to Hakstol. We know that because Ghost literally said it in an interview.

Aside from Konecny, Shayne Gostisbehere was the chief victim of the coach’s prejudiced ire, but over the last few months he looked like the Ghost of last season. Why? Because he stopped listening to those responsible for trying to neuter the preternatural instincts and flare that make him so unique and dynamic.

http://www.crossingbroad.com/2017/04/takeaways-from-a-disappointing-flyers-season.html

 

[deadhead]

He played better because he got healthy and skated better.

He may dismiss "getting yelled at," but he was making fewer brain dead passes IN HIS D-ZONE the last month or two - and that's not a matter of stifling, it's one thing to get creative in the O-zone (though not when there's no one behind you), quite another to make bad passes out of the D-zone that are intercepted.

If "stifling" Ghost means asking him to think before he passes, and make sure you know where your teammates are before you try and make a highlight film move and get stripped of the puck - then I'm all for "stifling." And if employing basic hockey IQ is too much for him, then when Sanheim has a year under his belt it's time to move Ghost.

 

[Striiker]

It's not "stifling" him that was the problem, it was making him think that if he made any mistakes he would be scratched, even if he was easily a net positive in the game overall. Once you make a player lose confidence and start to overthink things his play will obviously suffer. Ghost had to fight against the "coaching" to gain his confidence back, after the Hakstol did his best to ruin it, by just playing worry free and high skill/speed hockey.

What kind of coach actively makes his players play worse by being so tone deaf that he can't realize he's hurting instead of helping? A bad coach, obviously.

Anyone with eyes could see that confidence was an issue once Hakstol set a precedent of "you make a single mistake, you sit... but only if you're on this specific list of players". Unfortunately Hakstol (and I guess some people on here too) apparently doesn't have eyes or a shred of common sense.

Imagine Hakstol coaching a younger Karlsson.

 

[Rebels57]

It's not "stifling" him that was the problem, it was making him think that if he made any mistakes he would be scratched, even if he was easily a net positive in the game overall. Once you make a player lose confidence and start to overthink things his play will obviously suffer. Ghost had to fight against the "coaching" to gain his confidence back, after the Hakstol did his best to ruin it, by just playing worry free and high skill/speed hockey.

What kind of coach actively makes his players play worse by being so tone deaf that he can't realize he's hurting instead of helping? A bad coach, obviously.

Anyone with eyes could see that confidence was an issue once Hakstol set a precedent of "you make a single mistake, you sit... but only if you're on this specific list of players". Unfortunately Hakstol (and I guess some people on here too) apparently doesn't have eyes or a shred of common sense.

Imagine Hakstol coaching a younger Karlsson.

My favorite was when he was scratched after a 2 assist performance on the same day he was named Philadelphia Athlete of the Year. Really classy and heady move by College Boy.

 

[Striiker]

My favorite was when he was scratched after a 2 assist performance on the same day he was named Philadelphia Athlete of the Year. Really classy and heady move by College Boy.

Nothing says player development like inconsistent "accountability".

2 assists and carried around a deadweight partner all night? That's nice, but you made a bad pass, so you're gonna sit. Hey MacDonald, ready to play 20+ minutes tonight?

 

[Rebels57]

Nothing says player development like inconsistent "accountability".

2 assists and carried around a deadweight partner all night? That's nice, but you made a bad pass, so you're gonna sit. Hey MacDonald, ready to play 20+ minutes tonight?

Awful. Can't wait for the day he is fired (unless he somehow is a different person and coach next season which I can't see happening).

Can't wait for Lindblom and 2OA to be healthy scratched to send a message while Bellemare remains in the lineup getting annihilated every shift.

 

[deadhead]

He lost his confidence because he wasn't skating as well as the year before, and was getting stripped of the puck more often (opposing players weren't buying his dekes and coming up to challenge him). Ghost wasn't used to playing a more fundamentally sound game, he has had very little experience playing like a conventional D-man (none in college where he carried the action, missed out on the AHL due to the injury).

When he regained his legs, he also regained his confidence, because what wasn't working in January started working again in March.

The difference was obvious, he was able to make the moves that had worked the year before, and opposing players started giving him space again because they had to play more conservatively against him.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

A poor article that totally ignores the fact that goalies **** the bed for most of the year. Them dropping from .920 to .905 is why the Flyers missed the playoffs,...

That's why we are bringing in Bernier.