How to continue rebuilding

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by Broilers, Oct 26, 2011.

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  1. Broilers

    Broilers Registered User

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    It seems to me that rebuilding will take next stage this season. I am happy with that and we will have shot to make play offs. The rebuilding needs to be done anyway properly. In the first stage we got rid of under performing veterans and acquired draft picks. We have a very good prospect pool but we do not have assets there to win SC. We are not going to have top 3 pick this year maybe even top 10 pick which means that we are not going to draft top pairing defense man 2012 draft (or at least we need quite a bit luck to do so)
    In my opinion we need to enter to the second stage of rebuilding which means offloading a couple of players for good prospects who can enter to line up next season and season after that. It is not any more the time to acquire draft picks but we can even start to use picks to acquire potential assets. Future is not now but it can be sooner than we believe. My favorites to be traded are Whitney and Hemsky. We have seen that we can win without them and they cannot help the team from IR.
    I do not believe that we can become a contender with these moves but we need also bona fide number 1 defense man. We need to make a big push to get Weber. We can use a couple of first round picks and some assets we can get from Whitney and Hemsky trade to get him. If we offer 3 first round picks and a prospect then Nashville will trade him. We just need to make it sure that He will sign extension for 5-7 years.

    What are your thoughts?;)
     
  2. thadd

    thadd Oil4Life

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    1: It's too soon to tell what stage of the rebuild we're in. We usually start off pretty decently and die off around Christmas.

    2: Yes. Please trade Hemsky. I'd dive at a 2nd + 4th rounder from a top 4 team in the east or west.

    3: Whitney? I know the dude can't stay healthy, but are you crazy?!? AHhhh man... Gilbert, Smid or Potter look regular for one game and that game will be lost. I say hold onto that guy for the rest of the year.

    4: 3 firsts for Weber? Who's going to cough that up? Weber is going to resign to play one more year with Nashville then he'll walk as a UFA.... well things at least look to be going in that direction. I don't think he was happy the way things went when he went to arbitration. We're not the Calgary Flames or the Toronto Maple Leafs. Tambolini isn't going to go out there and try to buy us a cup. He's going to try to do what Tallon did. Wait till we've got a good proven core and then pick up whatever pieces are needed to finish the puzzle.

    Seriously, how many times in the short time I've been alive have the Leafs gone out there and over paid someone who was good when the Leafs were still not in a position to be a powerhouse team? The Oilers aren't owned by a group which is represented by tons of people. We've just got Katz. Thank god that means we can take our time.

    If any trade is going to be made it's going to be on the left wing and that's only going to happen if too many of our young left wingers turn out to be proven top-6 forwards.(IMO)
     
  3. Broilers

    Broilers Registered User

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    I changed my mind, Whitney away from trading block

    The Oilers are playing at a level I did not believe in when I started this thread. But we are still in the process of a rebuild. Sacrifices must be made in the short-term in order to achieve long-term gains. But we got to remember that window is opening now and it keeps open till the end of the season 2014. Then RNH need a new contract and money might be so big that we cannot provide veteran supporting cast any more. Open window time be extended to the end of season 2016 if our prospects can fulfill the gaps veterans will leave behind them.
    I believe in that we will make play offs this season but we certainly do not have even a shot to win it all. Hemsky should be traded as soon as possible for first round pick and defensive prospect. We do not know how long he will stay healthy. We need two first rounders next draft and prospects to deepen our prospect pool so we can stay competitive a couple of extra years.
    Because team is doing so well I am leaning to keep Whitney and extend his contract.
     
  4. Stoneman89

    Stoneman89 Registered User

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    Can you throttle back and wait for the trade deadline and see where we're at, Sunshine? Hemsky just got back last night and Whitney is still on IR.
     
  5. Broilers

    Broilers Registered User

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    We have talked same things 2 years

    In a way I am sorry to resurrect old thread. But some comments made me think that MacT is taking steps we should have done already 2 years ago.

    He's move to shoe the door to Krueger and plans to do same to Hemsky and Horcoff are actually signs that rebuilding is not over. Of course we just accomplished year 3 in the 4 year plan. These moves are proving me that rebuilding plan will take 2 more years.

    I know MacT can't fill the holes of the roster this off season and I do not beleive we are able to do it through free agency and trades. Player development is still key the next 2 seasons. Because of that I would not trade way number 7 pick but try to acquire as many picks as possible.

    It was also very stupid to make public statement about Hemsky and Horc. Stetement decreased their trade value.
     
  6. taunting canadian

    taunting canadian Registered User

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    I disagree that any statement regarding player availability decreases trade value. Just think about it, any GM that MacTavish approaches to try to trade Hemsky/Horcoff to already knows that the player is available. They don't need a media report to figure it out. The availability of the player may lower the trade value because other GMs now know MacTavish wants to move them, but the availability is revealed to the GMs by MacTavish shopping them, not by the public statments. And you can't shop a guy around the league without letting on that he's available.

    Where public statements could be detrimental is if they harm the relationship/burn bridges with the player if you cannot trade him. It's not at all clear that that applies in this case - if Hemsky/Horcoff are eager to leave, then they won't be upset that they've been shopped. If the player is surprised that they're being deemed tradable, then it could be a problem. If the statement is such that the player cannot return to the lineup (e.g. a Souray situation) then it becomes a problem, but there's no indication that Horcoff/Hemsky would fit into that category.
     
  7. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    MacT basically stated that years of losing have conditioned these two players to accept losing.

    In essense that they've accepted being losers in the competitive world of pro sports.

    He now expects people to line up for these valuable losers. How does that work?

    This is grade a devaluation and its a stupid thing to do.

    Regardless of what you think about potential trade players don't state it and show your hand to everybody. This though ends up being consistent as the org gets to horse trade "from a position of weakness" yet again.

    I wonder what if any live useful bodies we get in trade for these two. Or for Dubnyk who is possibly also on the block.


    MacT is saying way too much at this point. Kind of a nervousness in his new role and trying to come clean with everything. Almost like he's trying to purchase a brief popularity card here after being despised as a coach. Fans may sop that up momentarily but other managers would be licking chops at the new guy in the ring.
     
  8. ManByng

    ManByng It's Me OilTastic

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    ^look guys, Horc and Hemmer DO have value, but that value will be determined likely at the draft table and we see just what we will really be able to get...might have to package each one up with other players or picks in order to move them but we'll soon see, but we WILL get at least SOME value from both.
     
  9. taunting canadian

    taunting canadian Registered User

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    Again, though, you can't actively shop a player without "showing your hand". Your options are:

    1. Attempt to trade the guy but do so by not approaching other GMs. Somehow expect to trade the player by hoping someone else approaches you about it. Doing this, you may be able to keep the player's value high, but the likelihood you'll actually trade the guys is pretty slim.
    2. Attempt to trade the guy by approaching a select few teams. By doing this, you've already indicated to the other GM that you're willing to trade the player, although he might not be aware of how interested you are in moving the guy. But again, by limiting your market, you're reducing the likelihood that you'll actually be able to move the player. You also won't be able to tell if you're getting the best possible deal for the player, since you don't see every potential trade partner's offer, just the ones you happened to approach.
    3. Approach every team in the league about the guy. Now you've "shown your hand" to every GM, regardless of whether you publicly announce it or not. But at least you're maximizing your chances of being able to move the player, if that's your end goal.

    The public announcement doesn't really change anything in scenario 3, unless the announcement is such that it would be difficult or impossible for the player to return to the club. If you're actively trying to move the player, then you must have already stated their availability to "everybody" that matters (your fellow GMs) and you've "shown your hand" to the GMs. The alternative is that you're passively trying to move the player, which means little chance of actual success.
     
  10. Broilers

    Broilers Registered User

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    Exactly. MacT himself declared that he is impatient guy. Impatience equals with being reactive. Business life is all about being proactive. I am honest I don't believe that this team ever becomes contending team under KLowe and MacT. They just do not have mental and emotional capacity to do it. They were competitive emotional hockey players but they are not business people. MBA is not making anyone a business person. Business person needs business mind
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  11. Up the Irons

    Up the Irons Registered User

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    we should continue to play hard and try to improve the special teams. Mact should shop and trade Yak as soon as he gets an offer he likes (ie. a good Dman, a physical forward, a prospect). He will move Hemsky anytime from now to the TD. Other than that, I don't think he does much. Next year's lineup will consist of this year's - Yak and Hemsky + whatever he gets in return. He will not move any other big value assets until these first set of bold moves fail to garner progress.

    I think the biggest mistake was hiring Tambo.
     
  12. Wheathead

    Wheathead Formally a McRib

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    I would say that our rebuild has been stagnant since 2011. Tambellini really did **** all to improve the team between then and when he got canned last year. We're two years behind on the "rebuild." But I'm beginning to wonder about whether or not this rebuild will be successful. The more I see the team play, the more I notice that the mix of this club is completely wrong. LA and Vancouver completely manhandled this club. Two top teams in the west. Bottom line is that this club isn't good enough, and isn't big enough to compete in this conference. That falls on Tambellini.

    It will take a few years to clean the Tambo-stench from this club.
     
  13. Moose Coleman

    Moose Coleman Registered User

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    If the team is completely out at the TDL, shop Hemsky for picks. Otherwise, I'd look at re-signing him on a short term deal.

    Yak and all the rest stay.

    Shop for help on the backend to replace N. Schultz. A top pairing guy would be great, but a true second pairing defender would be helpful. Failing that, a starting or 1B goalie. If the Oilers are looking like they'll pick outside of the top 8, dangle the pick.

    Other than that, there's not much that ails this team that good health and time to develop can't fix.
     
  14. McJadeddog

    McJadeddog Registered User

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    unless you are getting a top-pairing dman under the age of 25 then you lose any yakupov trade.... and since those players are almost impossible to find, it means that you don't trade yakupov

    i can't wait for 2-3 years from now when yakupov is a consistent 30-35 goal scorer and people feel very foolish for these ridiculous yak-trade ideas
     
  15. McTedi

    McTedi Registered User

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    Agreed, the LA game showed that we are no where near the same level as the kings, completely out matched. Clarkson could have been a nice piece but he was grossly overpaid as a FA. Our D needs some over hauling, we need some big nasty Dmen back there. Until we fill the holes in our lineup this trend will likely continue.
     
  16. Replacement*

    Replacement* Checked out

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    With due fairness how many teams are at the level of the Kings? People forget how much Willy Mitchell was missed last season and what a difference having an additional monster on D makes. Not to mention the entire club is playing a few inches taller.

    LA is the gold standard and we faced them without Gagner, Hall, Joensuu,Pitlick, Smyth, all players that could help out.

    We're supposed to be outmatched against an SC champion. I don't think we should be able to hang around with Boston, LA, Chicago, SJ but theres little excuse not to be in games and beating other clubs.

    For instance look at the caps. Calgary plays em with a modicum of intensity and physical energy and they disappear. We instead play a tentative and cute game trying to match skill..:shakehead
     
  17. s7ark

    s7ark RIP

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    No need to keep bumping old threads for posts that can go in current ones. Closed
     
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