(How) The NHLPA Lost its way

[chiavsfan]

Good article from the "Toronto Sun" on the bad business dealings in the NHLPA

The NHLPA stands as one of the great defenders of unfettered supply and demand.

That should be of great comfort to them in a week or so when we'll all be able to pick up one of those nice PA fleece pullovers for $1.99.

Right now, every player in the NHL must be asking how things went so bad, so fast.

Their union is in schism with Bob Goodenow and Ted Saskin in conflict over how and when to settle.

The resolve of the membership has evaporated. The public relations war has long since been lost.....

Linky Poo

Click to read more...

 

[GSC2k2*]

As fair of an expression of the horrendous misconceived strategy and poorly executed tactics of the PA as anyone could state.

 

[Pepper]

As fair of an expression of the horrendous misconceived strategy and poorly executed tactics of the PA as anyone could state.

Don't worry, the usual PA shills will shoot down that article as well claiming that Goodenow's tactics worked very well.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Don't worry, the usual PA shills will shoot down that article as well claiming that Goodenow's tactics worked very well.

Indeed.

"How could he have known?"

 

[FLYLine27*]

Don't worry, the usual PA shills will shoot down that article as well claiming that Goodenow's tactics worked very well.

Your little anti-pro-player statements are getting very repetitive and annoying now. Your pro-owner...yes WE all know by now. Dont have to advertise that every topic in the buisness section.

 

[Morbo]

Ah, another spankfest by the pro-owner yahoos coming up. Oh boy oh boy.

Maybe we could wait to see what the CBA actually looks like before dancing your happy dance on Goodenow's grave? Maybe?

 

[King_Brown]

Goodenow and the PA deserved this.

Saskins and Bobby are fueding?

 

[Pepper]

Here's the deal:

I'll stop trashing PA shills the moment they stop making stupid comments with either very flawed or no logic whatsoever.

When I see comments like "most pro-PA posters here are more informed than most pro-owners posters" (or something like that) or "Bettman shelved the team-by-team revenue based salary cap" (when he only corrected the misinterpretation made by Globe & Mail) it's just impossible to let that sheer ignorance (or downright stupidity) go unreplied, if not for anything else than to prevent casual readers from taking those as facts.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Your little anti-pro-player statements are getting very repetitive and annoying now. Your pro-owner...yes WE all know by now. Dont have to advertise that every topic in the buisness section.

Isn't it easier to just say pro-league then anti-pro-player?

I could easily say the same thing about you. Your little anti-pro-owner statements are getting very repetitive and annoying now. Your pro-player...yes WE all know by now. Dont have to advertise that every topic in the buisness section.

Face it, this topic is a very devided issue, generally (but not always) between big market teams and, generally, the rest of the league - mostly smaller markets though. Big markets want to continue doing what they want, saying "we have the money, why arn't we allowed to use it?" while smaller markets cry back "because your selfish wants are ruining the league and turning it into a tier 2 league."

 

[GSC2k2*]

Ah, another spankfest by the pro-owner yahoos coming up. Oh boy oh boy.

Maybe we could wait to see what the CBA actually looks like before dancing your happy dance on Goodenow's grave? Maybe?

I would rather dance now. When his butt is canned, the dance floor will be rather too crowded.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Ah, another spankfest by the pro-owner yahoos coming up. Oh boy oh boy.

and more moronic comments coming from the pro-player crowd?

pot, meet kettle.

 

[Strangelove]

 

[FLYLine27*]

Isn't it easier to just say pro-league then anti-pro-player?

I could easily say the same thing about you.

1) No its not..because he seems to be more against people who are pro-player.'
2) You can't easily say the same thing about me because I haven't defended the Players in MONTHS. Back in February i was very pro-player but as this thing carried on and on and on BOTH sides lost any respect they had. Im not pro either of them. But i like to read arguments between pro-player and pro-owner without having to read through the nonsense in the middle.

 

[Ronald Pagan]

It's kind of funny that the PA supporters now resort to simple insults and quips at this point. They understand that their best arguments have been thoroughly ransacked and they too understand that the writing is on the wall. Bob is done. The PA lost.

I'd really love for someone out there to convincingly prove otherwise without using arguments like 'you're a pro-owner yahoo,' or some assinine and juvenille fantasy of how Bob is secretly putting in loopholes or that this was what the PA wanted all along or that a 36m cap is someone better than a 42.5m cap because it has a floor of 22m or that the PA couldn't have possibly known that the owners wouldn't crack, or that linkage makes this deal better for them when they have vigorously opposed linkage for the past 240 days.

 

[King_Brown]

If there is no deal by the end of January bring in the replacements.

I still want info on why Teddy Saskins the 1 tooth wonder, and Bob Goodenow are fighting now?

 

[Phanuthier*]

1) No its not..because he seems to be more against people who are pro-player.'
2) You can't easily say the same thing about me because I haven't defended the Players in MONTHS. Back in February i was very pro-player but as this thing carried on and on and on BOTH sides lost any respect they had. Im not pro either of them. But i like to read arguments between pro-player and pro-owner without having to read through the nonsense in the middle.

1. ok... maybe its because one side is right? There were strong player and league sides early on, so there's probably a reason why one side is stronger then the other? Maybe because they... right?
2. I'm sorry, but you are most certinatly not in the middle. I see very few that are (and no, I don't consider myself one of them). You are still very much sided with the players union. Your stance has only softened, because alot of crap you spewed before was wrong, and proven wrong in the players caved prosposals.

The most balanced argument I have seen is from another poster on another board, who says alot of what the pro-league crowd do (cap, rollback, rookie max ect) BUT they argue in this partnership, books have to be completely open and every cent made by the owner due to the players performance (everything from jersey sales, to parking revenue) should be part of that partnership. In other words, not being in favour of either side making money.

 

[Hoss]

Here's the deal:

I'll stop trashing PA shills the moment they stop making stupid comments with either very flawed or no logic whatsoever.

When I see comments like "most pro-PA posters here are more informed than most pro-owners posters" (or something like that) or "Bettman shelved the team-by-team revenue based salary cap" (when he only corrected the misinterpretation made by Globe & Mail) it's just impossible to let that sheer ignorance (or downright stupidity) go unreplied, if not for anything else than to prevent casual readers from taking those as facts.

If you made your points with clarity, and devoid of sarcasm, I might get past our differences of opinion and not immediately discount your arguement and see it as laudiable.

 

[Pepper]

If you made your points with clarity, and devoid of sarcasm, I might get past our differences of opinion and not immediately discount your arguement and see it as laudiable.

I don't remember talking to you earlier, you posted here with different name earlier?

Btw, what does 'laudiable' mean? English is not my first language so you gotta help me here. Did you mean laudable by any chance?

 

[SuperUnknown]

I can't see how the PA supporters are any happier defending Bob G. If you really support the players, you should be pissed that the NHLPA didn't settle earlier for a really better deal ($44-45M cap anyone?).

I know I pretty much have been labeled a "pro-ownership", but it's merely because from my analysis I came out with the result that the players would have to sign a CBA where they would give a lot to the owners. It's not because of my love for the ownership, but rather for my love of the game. It's not because I've agreed with the statements of the NHL management mostly that I side against the players. I just can't agree with ludicrous statements, and these were the only ones coming from the NHLPA. Put a level headed leader negociating with the NHLPA, acknowledging the team's financial problems while really working on getting the most for the players and I'd be backing him up big time.

So far, it has been as much "believers" (in the data presented) vs "non-believers" as pro-owners vs pro-players. You agree that there are systemic problems in the way the NHL is financially setup, you're pro-owners. You agree that owners are fraudsters and that all numbers are bogus, you're pro-player. This is too simple and convenient.

If you look at what happened until now, the press conferences, the statements, etc, Bob Goodenow and the PA leadership has looked rather bad. From an objective point of view I challenge anyone to say otherwise. If you look at the financial data, what the players have lost vs what they'll gain in the next 10 years, it's a true disaster.

 

[Resolute]

Goodenow and the PA deserved this.

Saskins and Bobby are fueding?

Seems like it. If you look at the recent statements made by the union, none of them were made by Saskin. This stands in stark contrast to earlier in the year when he pretty much was the public face of the union. Seems like Saskin is pretty much already out, and Goodenow may not be too far behind.

 

[Hoss]

I don't remember talking to you earlier, you posted here with different name earlier?

Btw, what does 'laudiable' mean? English is not my first language so you gotta help me here. Did you mean laudable by any chance?

I am just another pro PA yahoo, I only post under this name. And yes you I meant laudable.

 

[Morbo]

It's kind of funny that the PA supporters now resort to simple insults and quips at this point.

It's kind of funny how you don't see how hypocritical that statement is.

 

[MHA]

I feel bad for the players, they lost big time in this and it all could have been avoided. THe owners will get a deal great for them and for the overall good of the league.

The PA can only blame themselves they had only one plan, to outlast the owners. They obviously failed and undermined the owners unity. Bobby should have been more honest with the players telling them by this date we have to accept their cap demands and hopefully win on all the other issues.

The players must take responsibility too, they did not stand up for themselves, blindly following a group that everyone knew would lose. Only complete idiots could not see that the NHL was going to get a cap (Why would a league struggling not have a cap, when two superior successfuly leagues, the NBA and NFL have caps). The players are at fault and owe the fans a sorry.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

The article failed to mention the influence of the MLBPA on the NHLPA's stance.

Mindbogglingly, the NHLPA actually thought they were on the leading edge of a new turn in pro sports union standing, a stance that the MLBPA was encouraging, seeing their own negotiations coming up in a few months. This was a catastrophic mistake.

The players deserve to lose everything they are going to lose in this CBA, if not more.

 

[davemess]

The article failed to mention the influence of the MLBPA on the NHLPA's stance.

Mindbogglingly, the NHLPA actually thought they were on the leading edge of a new turn in pro sports union standing, a stance that the MLBPA was encouraging, seeing their own negotiations coming up in a few months. This was a catastrophic mistake.

And the NHLPA's mistakes are going to bounce back towards the other Unions. The NBA's CBA talks have already shown that the NBA is feeling strengthened by how the NHL has held together and is pushing for some of its more contriverial ideas for its new CBA (Contract length shortened, draft age raised, etc).