How the mighty have fallen: Chicago and LA

[Anisimovs AK]

Salary cap killed and dismembered the Blackhawks

Salary cap mismanagement is what killed them. Its not as if the existence of the Cap automatically means teams peak and valley. Pittsburgh won cups 6 years apart and have been in the playoffs regularly for a decade, same for the Sharks/Ducks (with less cups obviously lol) etc.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

LA has had a lot of change since 2014. Starting with that craptastic summer after the cup.

LA has made it to the playoffs 2/4 years since.

Guess the teams they lost to in the first round both years. Yep, Western Conference Finalist.

Tough league. Can’t win every year.

Gotta pay your young stars eventually.

Gonna be funny watching these teams full of young star RFAs either A. not win and not have to worry about paying anyone or B. win something and make all the dynasty 'mistakes' they're lecturing about.

 

[Little Psycho]

They are paying the price for it but I wouldn't have undone anything for the Kings.

 

[Soundwave]

lol as if every fan of every other fanbase wouldn't give their left nut for 2 or 3 Cups in their next decade.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The salary cap is the worst thing to happen to the league. You have to win Cups before core players get their big pay day. Once they do, there's no room to continue supporting them through free agency and trades.

Even if Chicago wanted to blow it up, they can't trade any of their top players because other teams can't fit them under the cap. So now Chicago basically has to wait until Kane and Toews contracts are up to do a proper rebuild.

Salary Cap has been great for the NHL.

 

[Three On Zero]

28 other teams would take that situation in a heart beat
( excluding hawks )

 

[Osprey]

LA has made it to the playoffs 2/4 years since.

That's not an accomplishment. That's statistically average and a big disappointment for a team that was the best in the league the three years prior.

Guess the teams they lost to in the first round both years. Yep, Western Conference Finalist.

If they had taken their opponents to 6 or 7 games, you might've had an argument that they were unlucky in their matchups, but they won a grand total of one game across both series. They also entered both postseasons playing .500 hockey. They probably would've lost to just about any of the playoff teams, except for maybe the wildcard teams, but getting to play them is a reward for winning the division that they didn't earn.

 

[Atas2000]

What has happened to these recent powerhouse teams? It is truly baffling. They have both seemingly dropped off a cliff without their rosters changing all that much. They have lost some key secondary pieces but nobody major and their cores are still intact.

It makes you wonder if the NHL has become a fluke and we will never see dynasties like their were in the 80's and there are in other sports right now.

Chicago has been getting progressively worse, Lost in 1st round, swept in 1st round, missed playoffs. LA: missed playoffs, embarrassed in 1st round, missed playoffs, swept in 1st round by an expansion team.

It is inexcusable for two teams that have won multiple cups with the same players to just regress into bottom feeders. It is taking the enjoyment out of watching the NHL knowing that there are no truly great teams anymore.

Salary cap and they "have fallen of the cliff" after achieving what the vast majority of other teams can only dream to achieve. I don't see the problem.

 

[BM14]

Sports is cyclical. It was time.

 

[AmericanDream]

we missed the playoffs once in 10 years and now we are done....lol....good to know...

every team goes through some retools, Penguins and Bruins have, the Hawks are in a good position with open cap next year, a lot of top kids coming, and a possible Panarin coming back...

don't worry HF, you will be hating the Hawks yet again for their dominance.

 

[HockeyIsCool]

Disregarding the fact the league is indeed cyclical, the Kings and Hawks are nowhere close to the same teams that won those cups. For LA in particular they lost:

#2 RHD Slava Voynov for nothing
Willie Mitchell
Matt Greene
Scurderi (who used to be servicable during the first cup)
Mike Richards (who used to be good before concussions)
Daryl Sutter

and replaced them with:

Phaneuf
Oscar Fatenberg
Derek Forbort
Nate Thompson
Matt Luff

Not to mention that all of these guys are 4 years older than they were. Dustin Brown and Quick showing those signs more than Kopitar and Doughty. Trading picks for iginla, lucic, Lecavlier, luke Luke Schenn didn't help either. Nor did retirement contracts for Quick, Brown, and Gaborik. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't that surprising both teams have fallen from grace. No team is immune from that. The Bruins went through phases and only won 1 cup and the Penguins went nearly a decade without winning a cup with the 2 best forwards in the game.

 

[LAKings88]

That's not an accomplishment. That's statistically average and a big disappointment for a team that was the best in the league the three years prior.



If they had taken their opponents to 6 or 7 games, you might've had an argument that they were unlucky in their matchups, but they won a grand total of one game across both series. They also entered both postseasons playing .500 hockey. They probably would've lost to just about any of the playoff teams, except for maybe the wildcard teams, but getting to play them is a reward for winning the division that they didn't earn.

That's not an accomplishment. That's statistically average and a big disappointment for a team that was the best in the league the three years prior.



If they had taken their opponents to 6 or 7 games, you might've had an argument that they were unlucky in their matchups, but they won a grand total of one game across both series. They also entered both postseasons playing .500 hockey. They probably would've lost to just about any of the playoff teams, except for maybe the wildcard teams, but getting to play them is a reward for winning the division that they didn't earn.

I’m not gonna sit here and list a detailed explanation of each of the last four years.
Which I could do.

I’m saying the Kings got in two of the past four years. Yes they underachieved. I don’t know what they would have done against other teams because they didn’t play them. People act like LA hasn’t been in the playoffs since 2014.

It’s come to a head this year. This mix isn’t working and Quick is injury proned unfortunately. He did stand on his head in the Vegas series and win the Jennings last year.

I did not expect this regression. I expected a third in the pacific to wild card finish. Especially with adding Kovalchuk. Something is amiss. Maybe it is as simple as motivation. I’m guessing they just aren’t as complete of a team as the cup years group was. A lot will hinge on Vilardi/Kupari/deadline deals going forward.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Disregarding the fact the league is indeed cyclical, the Kings and Hawks are nowhere close to the same teams that won those cups. For LA in particular they lost:

#2 RHD Slava Voynov for nothing
Willie Mitchell
Matt Greene
Scurderi (who used to be servicable during the first cup)
Mike Richards (who used to be good before concussions)
Daryl Sutter

and replaced them with:

Phaneuf
Oscar Fatenberg
Derek Forbort
Nate Thompson
Matt Luff

Not to mention that all of these guys are 4 years older than they were. Dustin Brown and Quick showing those signs more than Kopitar and Doughty. Trading picks for iginla, lucic, Lecavlier, luke Luke Schenn didn't help either. Nor did retirement contracts for Quick, Brown, and Gaborik. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't that surprising both teams have fallen from grace. No team is immune from that. The Bruins went through phases and only won 1 cup and the Penguins went nearly a decade without winning a cup with the 2 best forwards in the game.

I think it all goes to show it's not as simple as 'replacing' players with 'better younger talent.'

It was sure easy to find a 'better' player than late-career Jarret Stoll, just as it was Mike Richards, Robyn Regehr, Matt Greene. But some guys truly are irreplaceable in terms of fit, age, etc. It takes the right mix as well as a lot of luck and timing. The Pens have sure had more talented and speedy forwards, but was anyone ever a better 'fit' than Pascal Dupuis? And so on.

People mock intangibles a lot but I don't think most winning teams do. Justin Williams as "Mr. Game 7." Toews just straight blackholing everyone he faced for years.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

From my perspective Chicago could still be a good team. It's just Cam Ward is so f***ing bad.

By good I mean good enough to make the playoffs.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Team A 2 players that scored more than 50 pts, no elite goalie, no elite Dman, 2 great centers. 20th ranked PP, 8th ranked PK, Goal differential +25


vs

Team B 3 players with 50 0r more points, elite goaltending, elite Dman 1 great centers then 2 good ones. 17th ranked PP, 4th ranked PK, Goal differential +18

By all accounts if any team is to be called lucky you may be surprised at which team would deserve that moniker.

Team A has been a contender for more than a decade now

Team B had a few good years and then fell of the map so i'd say Team A is more good and Team B is lucky

hope that helps

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

lol as if every fan of every other fanbase wouldn't give their left nut for 2 or 3 Cups in their next decade.

point is people should want their teams to be more like the pens and keep both nuts

win 3 cups, play for a 4th, and be a consistent contender for over a decade rather than have a few good years and then stink

that is nothing to admire, when comparing them to the pittsburgh penguins

 

[Telos]

Everybody dies. Can't be on top forever. What happened? Time.

 

[Soundwave]

point is people should want their teams to be more like the pens and keep both nuts

win 3 cups, play for a 4th, and be a consistent contender for over a decade rather than have a few good years and then stink

that is nothing to admire, when comparing them to the pittsburgh penguins

Not everyone is gifted two generational players and quite frankly if they didn't fall into Kessel, they might be stuck sitting at 1 Cup. Before they got Kessel there was a lot of talk about that Crosby/Malkin era being a bit of a dud relative to the hype.

Any fan of any team would be a moron to turn down 2 or 3 Cups in the next decade if it meant being just an "OK to middling" team for a few years afterwards.

Other fanbases looking down on Chicago and LA when some of them haven't won a single Cup period won in some cases in like 20-40 years is laughable. Chicago has 3 Cups, LA has 2 ... that would be phenomenal for most any NHL franchise in a 20 year span, let alone 10 year span.

And if by "a few good years" you mean more like 9 straight playoff appearances for Chicago ... that's not too shabby.

 

[ES]

What. You win with depth. With key secondary pieces. This thread is lunacy.

This is important point. And while not about Hawks or Kings, it's also important reason for Oilers being so bad despite all their top picks.

 

[Morbo]

Everybody dies. Can't be on top forever. What happened? Time.

nobody can take those Cups from you. or the Hawks. People just hate on success.

 

[Battle Lin]

this is why the leafs are penny pinching on nylander...man its tough to fit a deep team when top guys make a lot and combine with a few bad contracts, you got no more room for depth and depth is very important to winning, its not just your top guys you need a great team

 

[member 305909]

You can argue for and against the salary cap with similarly convincing arguments.

In the European soccer-leagues there is no salary cap and it means that the rich are getting richer and the leagues have become boringly predictable.

Moreover, many clubs cant really afford to pay their stars the sums they are demanding but still pay which means the clubs become seriously indebted.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

They were great for so many years. They can take few bad years..

 

[Kitty Hawk]

I will probably never see the Hawks win another Cup, but am grateful for the four they did during my lifetime.

 

[BillNy]

I'm not saying that he would have been a star or anything but the dude could have absolutely been a 40-50 point player playing with Toews and Hossa. He always had an underrated shot. How much Blackhawks hockey did you watch over that span? Quit looking at box scores.

Pssst.... scoring 40-50 points with Jonathan Toews and Marian Hossa is not hard.