How the current (fully healthy) lineup was contsrued

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Right on cue!

Alright.

I guess I'll just conform.

"Good job leafs GM's. Taking 8 seasons as the richest team in the league to simply make the playoffs was really good of you. You all really know your hockey and are geniuses. I mean... 8 years is NOTHING. I was expected more like 30 years of missing the playoffs. But the richest organization in the league turning this team around in a mere EIGHT seasons? Incredible."

"And look at our young talent. You didn't do this the Detroit way of being a competitive team and still having elite young players/prospects. Nope. All it took was finishing bottom 10 in the league 5 out of 6 seasons. I mean... it's REALLY hard to get good young players when you finish in positions to draft 5th, 2nd, 13th, 5th, 9th, and 7th overall. I mean, those are REAL late picks. Hard to get elite talent with those types of picks.

"So, leafs management (richest organization in the league) I would like to applaud you for taking a mere eight seasons to make the playoffs, and finishing in a position to draft a mere six top 10 picks in order to acquire talented young players. Genius."



I have to admit... the koolaide is delicious... and a part of me really does wish I was a simple enough person to just take a big sip, sit back, and enjoy.

 

[EDDIE20*]

All you do is complain. You really wonder why you get a hard time? Life's not that bad.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Being the richest team in the league doesn't have half as much leverage as you make it out to be in a salary cap age.

And it is plenty possible to get a ton of high draft picks and still fail with them. Look at Florida or Edmonton.

 

[Goonface2k14]

When you have more financial advantages than any other team in the league... I would say "Good Job!!!" to a GM if they turned a ****** team around in a year or two.

But in order to make this team competitive again, the richest team in the league missed the playoffs 8 years in a row.
The GM being applauded in this thread inherited a 5th overall and 13th overall prospects (the 13th overall got more goals last year than ANY leaf). The highest paid GM on the richest team was then in a position to draft 7th, 2nd, 9th, and 5th overall.

After 8 pathetic seasons of missing the playoffs, of course we can cite a few things that ended up working well. BUT THAT IGNORES THE THOUSANDS (MAKE THAT MILLIONS!!!) OF THINGS THAT WENT WRONG!!!!

After 8 years of missing the playoffs as the richest team with the most financial advantages, I don't say "job well done" to the psychotically stupid GM's we had along the way.
I say IT'S ABOUT GOD DAMN ****ING TIME WE'RE COMPETITIVE AGAIN!!!!!!

Disgruntled Observer, you certainly live up to your name. Remember, there's a salary cap now, so being rich doesn't make any significant difference like it used to. And when Burke came in, his biggest assets were guys like Kaberle, Antropov, Ponikarovsky and Matt freakin Stajan. To be able to turn that team around in one or two years would likely mean breaking the bank on overpriced free agents (stifling any opportunities to make moves in the future, whether it be a resigning, or another free agent grab). I'd rather remain patient as a fan, knowing that they're not making short term decisions and trying to bring in a young core capable of growing together and going deep into the playoffs. It's all about the Cup my friend, and you can't get there overnight.

Eight years is a long time, but 46 years is much longer.

 

[Cor]

You can't really blame Dave Nonis, nor Brian Burke for the 4 years before they came in.

Being the richest team means jack **** with a Salary Cap

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

JVR for Schenn is already looking like Raycroft for Rask but at least we got a better end of this deal for a change. We'll done Brian Burke.

Yeah thats a bit much lol. Schenn isnt going to be the world breaker we all thought, but hes a capable defenseman, a good 4/5 guy that still has some room for growth.

Now that said, the trade undoubtedly is a steal for us, cause we got a legit 1st line winger that looks poised to score 30 goals this year. All for a middling defenseman.

 

[Ari91]

The Phaneuf, Franson and Gardiner/Lupul trades to this day STILL boggle my mind...

HOW the hell did we end up with that much legit talent from trading away plugs? If not for those great trades we may still be bottom feeders..

Landing those talents required us to take on bad contracts from other teams that weren't in the position to hold on to those bad contracts (usually due to internal caps). Lupul is the only player in your list that was more a surprising revelation than an expected impact for the team. By taking on such huge salary, the Leafs were able to trade away 'plugs' because they also came with cheap contracts.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

Being the richest team in the league doesn't have half as much leverage as you make it out to be in a salary cap age.

And it is plenty possible to get a ton of high draft picks and still fail with them. Look at Florida or Edmonton.

Or being located where we are. Taxes take a TON off their salaries. Im sure that plays big into it. I honestly do think that the free agents that sign here, are the guys that truly, truly want to be here.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Landing those talents required us to take on bad contracts from other teams that weren't in the position to hold on to those bad contracts (usually due to internal caps). Lupul is the only player in your list that was more a surprising revelation than an expected impact for the team. By taking on such huge salary, the Leafs were able to trade away 'plugs' because they also came with cheap contracts.

So Brian Burke used the financial advantage that the Leafs have over other teams then? Like a hated poster suggests? Yeah thought so. Pretty evident in the Lombardi/Franson deal I would say. If fans don't understand this premise...what can be said?

Burke threw A LOT of spaghetti on the wall..some of it stuck...Alot of it didnt. But at the end of the day..the Nonis acquisitions are truly the ones that are shaping the Leafs finally into something special. Not there yet to be serious cup contenders but getting closer, IMO. Nonis still needs to trim some fat. Bolster the D and add a skilled Centerman if the Leafs hope to end this painful Cup drought.

 

[Rob Brown]

Alright.

I guess I'll just conform.

"Good job leafs GM's. Taking 8 seasons as the richest team in the league to simply make the playoffs was really good of you. You all really know your hockey and are geniuses. I mean... 8 years is NOTHING. I was expected more like 30 years of missing the playoffs. But the richest organization in the league turning this team around in a mere EIGHT seasons? Incredible."

"And look at our young talent. You didn't do this the Detroit way of being a competitive team and still having elite young players/prospects. Nope. All it took was finishing bottom 10 in the league 5 out of 6 seasons. I mean... it's REALLY hard to get good young players when you finish in positions to draft 5th, 2nd, 13th, 5th, 9th, and 7th overall. I mean, those are REAL late picks. Hard to get elite talent with those types of picks.

"So, leafs management (richest organization in the league) I would like to applaud you for taking a mere eight seasons to make the playoffs, and finishing in a position to draft a mere six top 10 picks in order to acquire talented young players. Genius."



I have to admit... the koolaide is delicious... and a part of me really does wish I was a simple enough person to just take a big sip, sit back, and enjoy.

Why don't you just enjoy the fact that we ARE competitive NOW, instead of continually *****ing about stuff from YEARS AGO?

 

[Damisoph]

Why don't you just enjoy the fact that we ARE competitive NOW, instead of continually *****ing about stuff from YEARS AGO?

To be fair, the thread is about how the current roster was assembled, bringing up his well known opinions on Burke is fair. N

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed. Burke should be celebrated by Leaf fans daily.

 

[Ace88*]

When you have more financial advantages than any other team in the league... I would say "Good Job!!!" to a GM if they turned a ****** team around in a year or two.

But in order to make this team competitive again, the richest team in the league missed the playoffs 8 years in a row.
The GM being applauded in this thread inherited a 5th overall and 13th overall prospects (the 13th overall got more goals last year than ANY leaf). The highest paid GM on the richest team was then in a position to draft 7th, 2nd, 9th, and 5th overall.

After 8 pathetic seasons of missing the playoffs, of course we can cite a few things that ended up working well. BUT THAT IGNORES THE THOUSANDS (MAKE THAT MILLIONS!!!) OF THINGS THAT WENT WRONG!!!!

After 8 years of missing the playoffs as the richest team with the most financial advantages, I don't say "job well done" to the psychotically stupid GM's we had along the way.
I say IT'S ABOUT GOD DAMN ****ING TIME WE'RE COMPETITIVE AGAIN!!!!!!

How do you not get tired of posting literally the exact same trash over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? I can just see you smashing your forehead into your keyboard. Now that the Leafs are competitive again you're STILL not happy? Keep hittin the bottle, old man...

Anyways it boggles my mind how people were ******** all over Burke. It's so obviously clear now that he quite literally turned this franchise around from a pathetic swamp of suckitude into what it is today. I credit Nonis for adding a couple key parts like Bernier and Bolland (even though i think we would be fine with Reimer and Grabo), but i still despise the signing of Clarkson.

I love how all the Burke haters are nowhere to be found now. There were people ready to commit seppuku after we traded for Kessel, look how that turned out. People hated him for enjoying media spotlights, but those same people love Tim Lieweke for bringing a fresh "culture change" that is essentially the exact same message Burke preached. It's ridiculous. Hyopthetically if the Leafs won the cup this year (they won't), Burke's name should be on that cup. He gave credibility back to the Leafs, just as he is doing with Calgary.

Look DO. Burke took over in late 2008 and made his first moves in 2009. It's now 2013. The Leafs have had a remarkable turnaround in less than 5 years, just as Burke said. You have NOTHING to complain about.

 

[Havoc]

The benefit of having Burke as your GM is he has a lot of contacts. As such, he can sometimes get good deals.

Let's hope Nonis grew up a popular boy too.

 

[1995]

So Brian Burke used the financial advantage that the Leafs have over other teams then? Like a hated poster suggests? Yeah thought so. Pretty evident in the Lombardi/Franson deal I would say. If fans don't understand this premise...what can be said?

Burke threw A LOT of spaghetti on the wall..some of it stuck...Alot of it didnt. But at the end of the day..the Nonis acquisitions are truly the ones that are shaping the Leafs finally into something special. Not there yet to be serious cup contenders but getting closer, IMO. Nonis still needs to trim some fat. Bolster the D and add a skilled Centerman if the Leafs hope to end this painful Cup drought.

I have a feeing that D is coming. One solid piece beside Phaneuf, everyone falls into place. Exciting times in Leafland.

 

[diceman934]

Landing those talents required us to take on bad contracts from other teams that weren't in the position to hold on to those bad contracts (usually due to internal caps). Lupul is the only player in your list that was more a surprising revelation than an expected impact for the team. By taking on such huge salary, the Leafs were able to trade away 'plugs' because they also came with cheap contracts.

Exactly....we had the cap space and the money to take on Salary to get Franson, Lupul , Dion and Gardinar......

 

[Liminality]

The Leafs made the playoffs for 6 straight years from the 1998-1999 season to the 2003-2004 but JFJ took over as GM on August 29, 2003 and it went crashing down from there.

The Leafs were 3rd place in the east in 2003-2004 right before the lockout and they were an ageing team that was clearly running out of time. The team was filled with win now players who were in the last leg of their career. Owen Nolan who cost the Leafs Brad Boyes, Alyn McCauley and a 1st round pick in 2003. Doug Gilmour for a 6th round pick who was injured in his first game. Phil Housley who also played one game and cost the Leafs a 9th and 4th round pick. Ed Belfour who was picked up from free agency (who was still great but very old). Ron Francis for a 4th round pick. Brian Leetch for Maxim Kondratiev, Jarkko Immonen, a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick. Joe Nieuwendyk was a pick up from free agency (one of my favourite players) but was also on the decline. Mogilny was getting older, Roberts was getting older.

The point is this team was clearly going for broke that season and it didn't pan out, the mentality of the GM and the loss of the core players would affect this team for years to come.

The team in 2003-2004 when healthy was

Mogilny-Sundin-Roberts
Tucker-Nieuwendyk-Nolan
Ponikarovsky-Francis-Antropov
Renberg-Stajan-Reichel
Domi,Fitzgerald, Perrot

Kaberle-McCabe
Klee-Leetch
Pilar-Berg
Marchment, Belak

Belfour
Kidd
Tellqvist

(Sorry if they're a bit off it's been a long time)

A really good team on paper and one that was expected to go deep in the playoffs which they did.

Compare that to the 2005-2006 team that had all those vets leave the Leafs the year after the lockout. JFJ also made a few trades to ensure they'd stay in the playoff race like trading a 4th round pick for Jeff O'Neill and trading a 5th round pick for Luke Richardson. The GM and team were in scramble mode to stay competitive after the entire core was pretty different. They picked up Jason Allison, Eric Lindros and J.S. Aubin to try and stop the bleeding that was clearly evident after the lockout.

The 2005-2006 team when healthy was

Ponikarovsky-Sundin-Antropov
Tucker-Lindros-O'Neill
Steen-Allison-Wellwood
Kilger-Stajan-Domi
Wilm, Czerkawski, Ondrus

Kaberle-McCabe
Khavanov-Berg
Belak-Kronwall
Colaiacovo, White, Richardson

Belfour
Tellqvist
Aubin

Still a decent team but one that was in tough to make the playoffs which it didn't that year. They missed the playoffs by 2 points and this was only the start of the train derailing. The bandaid jobs didn't work and JFJ was getting desperate. With Belfour all but done JFJ made the trade of Tuuka Rask for Andrew Raycroft at the draft.

The 2006-2007 team still had some life but like the previous season, they lost more players cause of old age or being injury prone. They added players like Peca, Gill and Kubina to help the team which helped but lost Domi, Lindros, Allison and Belfour.

Ponikarovsky-Sundin-Antropov
Tucker-Wellwood-O'Neill
Steen-Peca-Battaglia
Kilger-Stajan-Belak
Devereaux, Perreault, Newbury, Pohl, Green

Kaberle-McCabe
White-Kubina
Gill-Colaiacovo
Bell, Wozniewski, Harrison

Raycroft
Aubin
Tellqvist

This was also the year Kaberle got hit late by Janssen which nobody on the team responded to. This team was not the previous Leaf teams that people were used to. Saying that, this team also almost made the playoffs but was 1 point away.

 

[Liminality]

Sorry for the double post

This is when the team started to get ugly. JFJ had no answers to the damage he was doing to the system and farm for the Leafs. He kept trying to block the holes in the ship but water was sinking his ship way too fast. Giving no trade clauses to players like Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, Kaberle and Kubina which handcuffed the team from gaining any assets to recover from. JFJ in his last ditch effort to keep his job traded Gill, Belak and Kilger for picks but he also traded his 1st, 2nd and 4th round picks to pick up Toskala and Bell. He also picked up Blake in FA by giving him a huge contract at the time. He was fired this year when the team was near the bottom of the standings late in the season but the damage was already done with bleak hope.

The next three seasons were probably the worst consecutive seasons I've seen as a fan. The 2007-2008, 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons were quite the lesson for the Leafs management.

Your 2007-2008 Leafs

Steen-Sundin-Blake
Ponikarovsky-Antropov-Tucker
Wellwood-Stajan-Tlusty/Bell
Kilger-Moore-Devereaux
Pohl, Newbury, Belak

Kaberle-McCabe
Kubina-White
Gill-Colaiacovo
Wozniewski, Stralman, Kronwall

Toskala
Raycroft
Clemmensen

Finished 12th in the east and only when JFJ was fired did they realise how much damage he did to this entire organization. Peddie even said the hiring of JFJ was "a mistake" but it was too late. Cliff Fletcher was brought in to end the year but really he was put on the spot and I don't put any blame on him in the situation he was in. Schenn was drafted and retooling of the Leafs organization was underway.

2008-2009 Leafs

Ponikarovsky-Stajan-Blake
Hagman-Grabovski-Stempniak
Hollweg-Mitchell-Mayers
Devereaux, May, Williams, Hamilton, Tlusty, Deveaux

Kaberle-Kubina
White-Schenn
Finger-Frogren
Van Ryn, Sifers

Toskala
Joseph
Gerber
Pogge

Probably the worst lineup this team has iced in a very long time. I'm pretty sure Joseph was brought in just to distract the fans from their on ice play. Fletcher was told to clean house for the next GM and he did just that. Be it a bad trade or letting players go, this team was gutted and beaten to the point that it didn't look like the Leafs.

When Burke's contract was done with the Ducks he came over to try and salvage the wreckage. Burke noticed that the team had no potential elite talent and he brought in elite talents in Kessel and Phaneuf that year. Burke kind of had more of a retooling mentality rather than a full rebuild. He brought in Komisarek, Beauchemin and Gustavsson. Everyone knew the Leafs would finish low but nobody predicted that the Leafs would finish as low as they did. Although if Burke didn't make the Kessel trade, I doubt the Leafs would have snapped their playoff drought in 7 seasons. I bet it would have taken even longer.

Somewhere in the 2010-2011 season is where Burke changed his mentality for the club. He had traded for Versteeg before the season started and was putting together a better team than the season before. When Feburary came Burke started dealing players for picks and prospects, filling up the bare cupboards. Burke traded Versteeg, Kaberle and Beauchemin for two 1st's, a 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks and Colborne, Gardiner and Lupul. This imo is when the Leafs youth movement really began.

The rest is so recent that it's not even worth going into.

So...TL;DR version.

The Leafs missed the playoffs for 7 straight years cause JFJ screwed us and because Burke had a change of heart when it came to evaluating the club.

Without this series of events though, I doubt we have a young up and coming team like we do now. Glad everything is working out so far and hope it continues to trend upwards.

 

[frankthetank91]

It's hard to look at that list and not be a homer. Wow. Even the most criticized trade (Kessel) looks good, actually great with the extension. The only thing that used to sting was trading Rask for Raycroft but getting Bernier for spare parts and Reimer with a late pick even makes up for that.

Phaneuf, Lupul, Gardiner, JVR, Bolland trades: Wow.

 

[notdoneyet]

Moreover, how and why the hell did ownership fire the guy who did that? I still curse at MLSE to this day for firing BB.

i think he was fired for the trade he was going to make

i think he was going hard after luongo

and the rumored cost would have been kadri, and first

thats why i think he was fired

 

[ACC1224]

i think he was fired for the trade he was going to make

i think he was going hard after luongo

and the rumored cost would have been kadri, and first

thats why i think he was fired

No chance.

 

[cyris]

The Lupul and Gairdner for Beauchimin trade being a steal or robbery is extremely over rated by our fan base.
Yes we got 2 great pieces we should be very happy with but Beauch has been absolutely fantastic for them. Last season he played more games than Lupul and Gards combined and finished 4th in Norris voting.

That trade is as close to a win-win as you can get.

 

[Mowerman]

Make no mistake, Luke Schenn has struggled in Philadelphia as well. They are spotting his ice time right now. He has been getting the least ice time on the Flyers' defense this season. Knowing the way the Flyers operate, a move involving him is coming soon.

He was apparently one of the few (emphasis on few) reliable d for them last year. Probably not a good idea to judge based on a few games of an 82 game season. Wilson set him back developmentally as well so there's a bit of a project (not to mention d hit their primes later). I don't think this is a trade that can be judged accurately in the short term outside of both teams trading perceived strengths to address needs.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

No chance.

no no I heard the same thing... major blowout between Burke and C-Suite execs over the pursuit of Luongo.... I believe even Nonis was against the move.

 

[ACC1224]

no no I heard the same thing... major blowout between Burke and C-Suite execs over the pursuit of Luongo.... I believe even Nonis was against the move.

Makes no sense.
Vancouver never got a sniff for Luongo, yet Burke would have overpaid?