how strategic application of Nieves will = options for NYR

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bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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I have been taking some ribbing for this for some time, and I have decided to address this in its own thread, once and for all.

Understand, sure there may be something going on that we do not know about. Until that emerges and is visible, we have to set that aside.

Which means we go with what we see. Which is thus...

"Boo" Nieves is a 2nd rounder C prospect for NYR. He seems to have gotten short shrift from mgmt, although that was mostly under the win now crowd the year before and the continued stupidity of AV last year. He has important strategic value.

In a vacuum, he is NOT a 1C. That, however, is irrelevant.
What is overriding and key is that he COULD be a stopgap placeholder at 1C until a better option comes along, and meanwhile he looks like his theoretical holding down the fort or growing into the position will reap considerable rewards.

First, qualifications. He is big, strong, an actual C, not a makeshift pivot, and he is good on faceoffs. That much is obvious, along with the fact he skates like the wind. Not elite Kreider speed, but ample get up and go. He has basic/basic + playmaking skills; that much is evident from a very small sample of when he got a cup of coffee w/NYR last year. He did little on 4th line, then got involved with Buch + I think Zuc, and that was enough to get some results. Now this is an extremely small sample I admit, but it suggests that he plays up or down to the level of his teammates -- he would not be the first player to demonstrate this. As to why did not lite it up in the A, most Wolfpack Fs suck, and none are a strategic match.

X factor. Now we get to the bottom line: Kreider - Nieves likely synergy.
Kreider IS our 1LW. That is set in stone. The linemates he gets, those are de facto our first line. IMO we were not great shakes at first line w/Stepan, who could not keep up w/speedier linemates. When finally, last year, we got Zib on first line with CK we had real chemistry, b'c they could dominate. Zib is fast enough, but is more of a bull. However, while a legit C, he effectively was a bookend W, doing a lot of work in the corners. If we got a complementary guy who was tough enough, fast enough, able to help with basic setup, etc, and let those 2 drive the play, that would be ideal. Nieves is that guy. If he grows into more, terrif. But even if all he is doing is providing synergy and helping Kreider exploit his potential to dominate, that's enough.

Now I'm posting this thread in this forum so, having provided rationale behind it, big picture scenarios for the Rangers going forward can be addressed.
Immediately, Kreider - Nieves - Zib would be our 1st line.
However, I expect a deal of Zib + to StL for Parayko +.
I also see Andersson + available to pivot starved MON for a 2019 1st+.
Now those deals may/may not go thru, but the point is those 2 are available in a seller's market for Cs if the return is good enough, and using Boo in lockstep with Kreider to create synergy helps make that happen.

If/when those or similar deals happen, our projection is
1st line = Kreider - Nieves - stopgap showcase replaced by Kravtsov
Would be worth experience of this year just to get Kreider and Nieves comfortable and ready for Krav.

Now I like Hayes, he has size and adequate speed, has improved loads of FOs and is a great def matchup C. I get he might be able to tutor Boo on one or two def tricks. He is our 2C.

Chytil is our 3C.
Stop gap like Lettieri is 4C, then maybe he switches to RW once Howden is ready, IMO second half this season, 2019.
Nieves
Hayes
Chytil
Lettieri

gives way to
Nieves
Hayes w/Chytil promoted to 2nd line wing [Kravtsov will seize 1RW next season]
Howden
Lettieri

If we get Panarin as a UFA to do W w/Hayes + Chytil, that would be sick.

Lots of work to do, but the big picture is visible.

As for the naysayers who insist on killing this, I say again, there could be something we don't know about.
But have to give guys max opportunity to succeed and not kill their spirit.

We had a goalie, Skapski, he won it in training camp competition, but did not get the job. Saved us when Hank went down for a month. We got Raanta. Now no one is complaining about getting Raanta, including me. But we could have showcased this guy better and moved him too. Instead, we crushed his spirit, then he got injured, he gave up, he sucked, and we cut him. Total waste and lost of opportunity to get something out of the asset.

My hope is Nieves is smarter. Realize for whatever reason AV, who def should NOT have been extended was, and he was not getting a shot, as AV famously prefers vets. Now we should either have played this guy or saved his elc. We saved his elc. Fine. But now we have to give him every opportunity to show he can cut the mustard. If he can't that's fine, that's on him.

But it needs be acknowledged that Ranger braintrust hopefully get that their best option, at least until something better drops in their lap, is to play this kid next to Kreider and see what that dynamic yields.

It is not honest to infer that Nieves does not have the potential so he isn't even worth the try when the obvious physical measurables confirm otherwise.

So for all of the above, expect Nieves sort of already earmarked in the lineup, and for Zib and Andersson to get moved --- if the price is right.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,572
3,657
Da Big Apple
So what is your offer?

the point was Nieves is worth more in synergy w/Kreider than otherwise, so not available

expect for right offer in a seller's market, Cs Zib and Andersson to be had.

If you want in on them, you have to beat best competitive offer, which I expect to be
Zib + for Parayko +

and

Andersson + for Habs 2019 1st + Juulsen.
 

Hire Sather

He Is Our Star
Oct 4, 2002
31,579
5,245
Connecticut
Can these guys play one shift together before you talk about their synergy?

Although...does NHL HUT mode still use synergy? Do they have it there? Big if so.
 
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FireGerardGallant

The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
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A56453D7-13D1-495B-877B-F7ACB6A8C5C5.jpeg
 

doomscroll

Registered User
Jan 15, 2018
879
1,167
I’m on-board with making Nieves a 1c, it gives the team a great shot at drafting Jack Hughes.

Trade away Skjei and make Lindgren-Pionk the team’s top-pairing while we’re at it, the league will pity us and gift the Rangers 1st OA!
 
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Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
I have been taking some ribbing for this for some time, and I have decided to address this in its own thread, once and for all.

Understand, sure there may be something going on that we do not know about. Until that emerges and is visible, we have to set that aside.

Which means we go with what we see. Which is thus...

"Boo" Nieves is a 2nd rounder C prospect for NYR. He seems to have gotten short shrift from mgmt, although that was mostly under the win now crowd the year before and the continued stupidity of AV last year. He has important strategic value.

In a vacuum, he is NOT a 1C. That, however, is irrelevant.
What is overriding and key is that he COULD be a stopgap placeholder at 1C until a better option comes along, and meanwhile he looks like his theoretical holding down the fort or growing into the position will reap considerable rewards.

First, qualifications. He is big, strong, an actual C, not a makeshift pivot, and he is good on faceoffs. That much is obvious, along with the fact he skates like the wind. Not elite Kreider speed, but ample get up and go. He has basic/basic + playmaking skills; that much is evident from a very small sample of when he got a cup of coffee w/NYR last year. He did little on 4th line, then got involved with Buch + I think Zuc, and that was enough to get some results. Now this is an extremely small sample I admit, but it suggests that he plays up or down to the level of his teammates -- he would not be the first player to demonstrate this. As to why did not lite it up in the A, most Wolfpack Fs suck, and none are a strategic match.

X factor. Now we get to the bottom line: Kreider - Nieves likely synergy.
Kreider IS our 1LW. That is set in stone. The linemates he gets, those are de facto our first line. IMO we were not great shakes at first line w/Stepan, who could not keep up w/speedier linemates. When finally, last year, we got Zib on first line with CK we had real chemistry, b'c they could dominate. Zib is fast enough, but is more of a bull. However, while a legit C, he effectively was a bookend W, doing a lot of work in the corners. If we got a complementary guy who was tough enough, fast enough, able to help with basic setup, etc, and let those 2 drive the play, that would be ideal. Nieves is that guy. If he grows into more, terrif. But even if all he is doing is providing synergy and helping Kreider exploit his potential to dominate, that's enough.

Now I'm posting this thread in this forum so, having provided rationale behind it, big picture scenarios for the Rangers going forward can be addressed.
Immediately, Kreider - Nieves - Zib would be our 1st line.
However, I expect a deal of Zib + to StL for Parayko +.
I also see Andersson + available to pivot starved MON for a 2019 1st+.
Now those deals may/may not go thru, but the point is those 2 are available in a seller's market for Cs if the return is good enough, and using Boo in lockstep with Kreider to create synergy helps make that happen.

If/when those or similar deals happen, our projection is
1st line = Kreider - Nieves - stopgap showcase replaced by Kravtsov
Would be worth experience of this year just to get Kreider and Nieves comfortable and ready for Krav.

Now I like Hayes, he has size and adequate speed, has improved loads of FOs and is a great def matchup C. I get he might be able to tutor Boo on one or two def tricks. He is our 2C.

Chytil is our 3C.
Stop gap like Lettieri is 4C, then maybe he switches to RW once Howden is ready, IMO second half this season, 2019.
Nieves
Hayes
Chytil
Lettieri

gives way to
Nieves
Hayes w/Chytil promoted to 2nd line wing [Kravtsov will seize 1RW next season]
Howden
Lettieri

If we get Panarin as a UFA to do W w/Hayes + Chytil, that would be sick.

Lots of work to do, but the big picture is visible.

As for the naysayers who insist on killing this, I say again, there could be something we don't know about.
But have to give guys max opportunity to succeed and not kill their spirit.

We had a goalie, Skapski, he won it in training camp competition, but did not get the job. Saved us when Hank went down for a month. We got Raanta. Now no one is complaining about getting Raanta, including me. But we could have showcased this guy better and moved him too. Instead, we crushed his spirit, then he got injured, he gave up, he sucked, and we cut him. Total waste and lost of opportunity to get something out of the asset.

My hope is Nieves is smarter. Realize for whatever reason AV, who def should NOT have been extended was, and he was not getting a shot, as AV famously prefers vets. Now we should either have played this guy or saved his elc. We saved his elc. Fine. But now we have to give him every opportunity to show he can cut the mustard. If he can't that's fine, that's on him.

But it needs be acknowledged that Ranger braintrust hopefully get that their best option, at least until something better drops in their lap, is to play this kid next to Kreider and see what that dynamic yields.

It is not honest to infer that Nieves does not have the potential so he isn't even worth the try when the obvious physical measurables confirm otherwise.

So for all of the above, expect Nieves sort of already earmarked in the lineup, and for Zib and Andersson to get moved --- if the price is right.
Hmmmmm

Trade Zib to make room for Nieves 1C. Bold strategy Cotton.

Someone said something about brevity once.
 
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n8

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Nov 7, 2002
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I'm ok trying Boo with Kreids to 1) help develop him 2) increase his trade value . Give Boo a real crack and some ice time - end post. That would have been an interesting thread. I just can't help but think you came up with this idea just to justify one of your many hair-brain trade scenarios. Do you have a magic 8-ball that you shook and saw "expect a deal of Zib + to StL for Parayko +"? Expect? I expect to eat a meal at some point today. That is an expectation. Rangers743 puts it best with his meme post. I lose brain cells every time I read a Bern trade scenario. :help:
 

eco's bones

Registered User
Jul 21, 2005
25,988
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Elmira NY
Nieves is not even close to 1st line NHL material. IMO he has a shot at an NHL career but the offense has not been there at any level (and I'm including not just NHL but AHL and College) to justify him on an NHL scoring line.

There are things I like a lot about Nieves. I like his size and strength and his skating is really really good. Very good puckhandler. Overthinks what he's doing way too much and that's where creativity lies when moving the puck to other players. You're either instinctual or you're not and Nieves isn't nearly instinctual enough. Compared to Stepan--Nieves has way more tools but Stepan's fewer tools does come with one ace toolbox. Derek is instinctual and can and very often does make plays that lead to goals. Derek is also a sharp cookie away from the puck. It's called hockey IQ. Derek's just not nearly as big or strong or as good a skater as Boo but he makes a lot more out of a lot less. I do think Boo could round into a pretty decent bottom line two way player though.

On the negative side--Boo is not a creative puck mover as a set up man and he compounds that problem by not shooting the puck nearly enough making him a pretty easy one dimensional player to figure out. Where Bern gets the idea he's a good face-off man I have no idea. With the Rangers he won 97 last year and lost 122. That could/should improve in time but right now I don't think anyone looking at those numbers could rightly say he was a good face-off man with a straight face. Nieves biggest problem all in all is his offensive hockey IQ is just not there. It never really came out in college and it's yet to make a real appearance in the pros. What I'm looking at kind of looks like Manny Malhotra.
 
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Kakko Schmakko

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
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I like him as a 4th line center, I think he can be a very good 4th line center if he plays fast and furious.
 
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