how on earth did Ovechkin win the Smythe?

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Ugene Magic

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Oct 17, 2008
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He won because he was the number one center and Kessel wasn’t, as well as it being a popularity contest. Crosby was hardly a factor in the finals until that last game, but the voters decide the Smythe winner before that anyway, and it was his third round that narrowly won it for him.

He had 2 assists in 5 games before game 6. You can nit pick these little moments as somewhat significant, but in the end he won based on reputation.

Ovechkin at least had more to show. 27 points in 24 games with 15 goals(first on team), and a great finals performance. Was Kuzy deserving as well? Of course, but it isn’t a travesty that Ovechkin won it, and he certainly was better and a better choice than Crosby in 2016.

Had you said he's the captain that would make more sense. Being a center/#1 center doesn't mean squat. Case in point, Ovechkin over Kuznetsov. Ovechkin isn't the #1 center, but he is the captain.

The nitpick part that should sway all is the fact teams couldn't put all their efforts into three #1 lines. Kessel being the #3 number one line saw the least of the matchups.

Every team puts their best on Sid. There is no debate about it when coaches say they do it.

It's the pecking order, the path of limiting the most damage.

I'd say the media was 50/50 and even leaning towards Kessel before the finals.
 
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GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
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I think it is a very similar case to what happened in 2016, but it is interesting that besides Pens fans, no one thinks it was a big deal this year compared to 2016. Just the usual double standard on HF. Kuznetsov was five points ahead of Ovechkin (compared to 2 with Kessel), and scored big GWGs. Also unlike Kessel who's most important series was second round against WSH, Kuznetsov stepped up the most in SCF which typically has higher value.

Kessel finished three points ahead of Crosby. Crosby had 86% of his point total and 60% of his goal total.

Kuznetsov finished five points of Ovechkin. Ovechkin had 84% of his point total and 125% of his goal total.
 

GreatGonzo

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I think it is a very similar case to what happened in 2016, but it is interesting that besides Pens fans, no one thinks it was a big deal this year compared to 2016. Just the usual double standard on HF. Kuznetsov was five points ahead of Ovechkin (compared to 2 with Kessel), and scored big GWGs. Also unlike Kessel who's most important series was second round against WSH, Kuznetsov stepped up the most in SCF which typically has higher value.
there was a 3 point difference between Kessel and Crosby, but the difference is if you compare Kessel to Kuzy and Ovechkin to Crosby, the Washington duo is clearly superior. People just like to reach and find other variables like "game winning goals" and "defense" for Crosby's deserving. but Ovechkin was a very impressive PPG(compared to Crosby) and lead his team in goals(15).....AND finally had a very impressive finals compared to Crosby.

I think the main point is both Kuzy and Ovechkin were very deserving, both had very impressive post seasons in general....But the bigger difference between Crosby and Kessel is Crosby was on the first line, giving him more Cudos in some weird way, followed by this over exaggerated defensive game and this "clutch" play.
 

pezpunk

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May 3, 2013
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-Goals certainly matter

-But when you shoot 2787893472389742389423794237 times and you have the worst shooting accuracy of any elite player of all time as Ovechkin does and when the Pens constantly beat Washington minus 1 year, I wont remember Ovechkin for anything except him shooting 50 shots per game and the rest of his team shoots 2.

-Ovi doesnt even set up plays. He just shoots. And shoots. And shoots. Then the powerplay and he shoots every shot on goal.

-Ill give Ovi credit. He is far and large the highest volume shooter in any sport all time and its not even close. Not even Michael Jordan when he was unstoppable shot and ballhogged shooting like Ovi. At least he has 1 cup though. Certainly isnt 3 going on 4.

Haha so bitter about losing. Delicious. Keep it coming. Best part of beating the pens is posts like these.
 

GreatGonzo

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May 26, 2011
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Had you said he's the captain that would make more sense. Being a center/#1 center doesn't mean squat. Case in point, Ovechkin over Kuznetsov. Ovechkin isn't the #1 center, but he is the captain.

The nitpick part that should sway all is the fact teams couldn't put all their efforts into three #1 lines. Kessel being the #3 number one line saw the least of the matchups.

Every team puts their best on Sid. There is no debate about it when coaches say they do it.

It's the pecking order, the path of limiting the most damage.

I'd say the media was 50/50 and even leaning towards Kessel before the finals.
I just think Kessels value is very unappreciated, and the only logic people like to run to is the fact that he wasn't getting the tougher match ups, but his line was still making the biggest difference.

like you said, their depth was insane and it was to much to handle. I think their success had more to do with the fact that there was so much talent and scoring outside of Crosby's line, rather the fact that Crosby was on the first line to begin with
 
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PenguinSpeed

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Oct 4, 2017
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Easy to be bitter when a good amount of posters including @Ageless said Ovechkin will NEVER win the cup. Ageless was saying Ovie is just a Dionne at best.

-I wanted Washington to win when they beat the Penguins. Makes Crosby look even better beating Washington all those years
 

TheGoldenJet

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Apr 2, 2008
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Bingo.

In those cases, neither was a bad choice. Just, imo, there was a better choice.

I hate this thread because Ovie was excellent in the playoffs. To suggest he is the worst CS winner ever is completely moronic.

Joe Neiuwendyk in '99 might be the biggest whiff I've seen. Balfour was easily the MVP of the playoffs but it was Eddie the Eagle. After receiving the trophy Joe even skated directly over to Eddie to say something.

Yeah that Smythe in ‘99 was very inconsistent with other years. In ‘97 Fedorov was snubbed in favour of Vernon. Two years after Vernon was handed the Smythe, Nieuwendyk (who had a worse playoffs than Fedorov) won it over Belfour (who had a better playoffs than Vernon). I guess you could argue that Fedorov being Russian worked against him back in those days.
 

illpucks

Registered User
May 26, 2011
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-I wanted Washington to win when they beat the Penguins. Makes Crosby look even better beating Washington all those years
Crosby looked like a deer in headlights as Ovie carved through his team like a warm knife through a butter stick. Pens fans were so pissed that Ovie destroyed their team they are still trying to discredit his Smythe!

There arguments on here are really salty and funny to read. But but he never passes. Ya when he set up the best plays of the playoffs. But but his shooting percentage. It's a good laugh just like the notion that Crosby's Smythes were better in any shape or form.
 

bobc222

Registered User
Mar 10, 2017
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an assist is worth just as much as a goal on the stat sheet, how many goals would ovie have without kuznetsov setting him up?
Um not every goal has an assist :laugh:, goals are rarer than assists as well so yeah, between Player A: 100G 0A and Player B: 0G 100A, I think every single player on this site would take Player A. Shall I make a poll to prove it?
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
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Apparently now shooting percentage is being used as an argument? Ok
It has been used as an argument for a long time. And it was always asinine.

If the key to scoring goals were to simply increase your shot output, and it were a thing that many players actually were capable of doing, then more players would do it. Players don't because they can't. Ovechkin does because he can, and as anyone can see it helps his team.
 

maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Troll thread mods should lock and ban.

Ovie was easily best player to anyone watching. Holtby wasn't consistent enough and Kuznetsov was only impressive on stat sheet.

One of the best Smythes since lockout.
I watched every minute of every Caps game. I think the Caps had 4 or 5 guys that were fantastic in the playoffs. Ovi was very good. Not sure he was the best. Kuzy was very dynamic and controlled the play whenever he touched the puck. Holtby was very solid. The turning point for the Caps in these playoffs was when Holtby started game 3 of the Columbus series. It they stuck with Grubauer the Caps dont get by the first round and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
If I had to pick one player. I probably would have picked Kuzy.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
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Pittsburgh
I just think Kessels value is very unappreciated, and the only logic people like to run to is the fact that he wasn't getting the tougher match ups, but his line was still making the biggest difference.

like you said, their depth was insane and it was to much to handle. I think their success had more to do with the fact that there was so much talent and scoring outside of Crosby's line, rather the fact that Crosby was on the first line to begin with

That's it in a nutshell. The Pens had depth everywhere from the goal out. The same held true for 2017. Imagine they didn't have all those injuries, their depth pulled them through.

This year, their depth was severely lacking. Most notably on defense. The past two years they had depth past the top 6 all the way to 9, where this year it was to the top 4/5 to 7, and I'm being generous considering they never used their #7 (Hunwick). They had a top 4 for sure and then it was Oleksiak, Ruhwedel and Hunwick.

That is where they need the most help even adding Johnson to the fold. They still need more tangible depth.
 
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Brownies

Registered User
I don't have a problem with people that would have given the Smythe to Kessel or Kuznetsov, both were my #1 or #2 choice in those respective years. However, to say that you cannot see why Ovechkin and Crosby won is going too far. I know that leadership is laughed at on this site, but to see a star offensive player paying the price, add a physical dimension to his game in the playoffs while still racking up points is inspiring for the rest of the team and is the reason why some team are able to outperform other teams in a 7 game serie, instead of chocking. Ovechkin was something to watch these last playoffs. His level of intensity was amazing in every series. He played a lot like how Crosby and Malkin has been playing in the playoffs these last few years, in fact. Of course, Kuznetsov was also a good choice, he came out big at the best of times. Same as Kessel 3 years ago.
 

TheAngryHank

Expert
May 28, 2008
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I think one of the larger factors in Crosby winning in 2016 (and the argument for Kuzy in 2018) was that he happened to factor into the most crucial goals. I'd say that's even more true of Kuznetsov in 2018, Ovechkin was getting points but Kuznetsov seemed to be creating out of nothing in the most important moments.
Didn't Ovy spring Kuzy for the game 7 GWG? I could easily be wrong but that was a Humongous goal.
 
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