How much worse would we be without our `stars`?

080

Registered User
Sep 14, 2009
4,920
89
Guelph
How much worse would the team really be without Kessel or Phaneuf?

If we remove their names, paycheques, or anything that elevates what they should bring to the team in our minds and simply look at what they do on the ice, how would our team perform without them?

Player A: will produce points at around a point-per-game pace, many of them on the powerplay and not as many at even strength. However, he does not put any effort into playing defence. His line is often easy to play against because he plays a ‘scared’ style of play and his line often concedes at least one goal per game while on the ice.

Player B: has the stamina and fitness level to play a lot of minutes on the blueline. Performs adequately at defending in most situations but is often beat due to lack of effort and mobility. Produce few points that wholly engineered by him (cannot hit net with shot, most assists come from completing a short pass to more offensive-minded player, etc.).

If player A were replaced by an average NHL forward (45-points, works hard) and Player B were replaced by an average NHL defender (plays 20 minutes, produces a few points and has the size to defend to an adequate standard), would our team be in much worse of a position?

I pose the question because I wonder how much the shortcomings of our stars cancel out the positive aspects of their play. I don’t have a vendetta with this thread and I’m not trying to say who should or shouldn’t be traded. I’m just interested to hear people’s opinions.
 

PuckMagi

Registered User
Apr 13, 2013
5,459
1,965
Toronto
Kessel probably wont make a lot of difference... he scores a lot of goals, but he's on the ice for tons of goals against too... so that's a bit of a wash.

I think we're better with Phaneuf.
 

-DeMo-

Registered User
Nov 12, 2006
5,455
354
Huntsville Ontario
Kessel probably wont make a lot of difference... he scores a lot of goals, but he's on the ice for tons of goals against too... so that's a bit of a wash.

I think we're better with Phaneuf.

Phaneuf has been on for 64 goals against only Orpik and Jack Johnson have been on for more.
 

realgoodleafs

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
10,647
685
SW Ontario
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Kessel has been a good point producer at even strength during his career. Anyways we'd probably be 26th to 30th versus 20th to 25th in the league.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,828
3,653
We finished 7th last in the league with Antropov as our best forward, Kubina as our best defenceman, and Toskala as our goalie.

Since then, we've finished 2nd last, 9th last, 5th last, and are now projected to finish bottom 10 again. We had one playoff appearance held up by hot goaltending through a short season. Aside from that, having Kessel as our best forward, Bozak as our "#1 C", and Phaneuf as our best dman hasnt led to any improvement over the 2008-2009 season, and that roster looked absolutely terrible.

To be honest I dont think we'd get all that much worse. Say we kept Rielly, Bernier, JVR, Kadri, Komarov, Gardiner, Robidas, Polak, Holland, Panik, got two young NHLers back in the packages for Phaneuf/Kessel (along with picks/prospects), and then used up that freed capspace on some free agent signings... We could easily match this groups consistent bottom 10 finishing. I doubt we'd be bottom 3.

Maybe finish 4th-6th last, but we've averaged finishing 9th last in the league (assumes 8th last finish this season) over the past 6, and thats even lower if you put less weight on the 48 game season. Not a huge difference.
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,647
Toronto
We'd be terrible. IMO the only players we should keep are:

Kessel
Bernier
Rielly
Kadri
JvR
Komarov
Polak

Everyone else should be available. Move guys with value for other pieces. Gardiner, Franson, Reimer, Bozak, Lupul, Phaneuf, Santorelli and Winnik all have value to other teams. Even though I'd like to see Santorelli and Winnik back in the off-season, they could get us something in return to end this meaningless season.
 

pcruz

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
6,404
4,541
Vaughan
If JvR and Kadri are your main offensive threats, and the defensive corps were at best what we have tonight, this team would be Buffalo.

50 points would be an over achievement!
 

Christ

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
12,134
476
Canada
With this guy as our coach I don't think having stars or not having stars really matters. No one scores.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
78,723
53,265
Many of our star players are merely paid like star players, but are actually not star players.
 

ITM

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Jan 26, 2012
4,552
2,523
It'll be the '80's all over again. I'm ready:laugh:

We're there, but it's worse now. The club. The league. The CBC. The state of trade and FA....Yeah..."Go Leafs Go".
 

gabeliscious

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
7,574
257
lupul-bozak-clarkson
komorov-kadri-santorelli
leivo-holland-panik
bodie-carrick-winnik

rielly-franson
percy-polak
gardiner-robidas/holzer/granberg

bernier
reimer

id say this team would be in contention for mcdavid/eichel. its basically a glorified ahl team. taking away kessel, jvr, and phaneuf would make a big difference. kessel and jvr might be on the ice for a lot of goals but they play against the other teams top lines. if you remove that, the team that replaces them wont necessarily be able to produce as much (factoring in potentially letting in less goals). it would also cripple our pp.


now that i see it, i might be for trading kessel, jvr, and phaneuf. i would have to think we would get a mint for the 3 and would definitely help kickstart a rebuild.
 

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