How much of a disappointment will it be if Flames miss the Playoffs?

[Volica]

If we miss the playoffs, I want a complete shuffle. At all levels.
Tells me this team isn't a real competitor. With the team they have, they should not only be a playoff team; they should be a top team in the Pacific.

Trade off anything not nailed down, make changes up and down the lineup and to management.

I'd be irate. Because we'd definitely do that 'not good enough to actually improve the roster, not good enough to make the playoffs' type season.

 

[super6646]

I'd want everybody but Hanifin, Monahan, and Tkachuk gone (I love johnny hockey, but I'd rather get a good return now than waste his value when he has a great contract). Build around these 3 players and try again. Of course if its like a couple point miss, then alright give the core another year. But if we are out of it weeks in advance, then I wouldn't mind seeing a fire sale.

 

[InfinityIggy]

If we miss, Gio has to go.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Only excuse for this team to miss the playoffs with the makeover it's gotten is extended injuries to multiple key players.

Pretty sure I just realized I made the same argument last year on why we would make the playoffs, since Treliving practically upgraded every position Gulutzan could have asked for.

That's put a serious blow to my optimism for this coming year. I still think we have what it takes, but I'm far more cautious in my optimism now.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Bolt for Holtz sounds better.

 

[Anglesmith]

Pretty sure I just realized I made the same argument last year on why we would make the playoffs, since Treliving practically upgraded every position Gulutzan could have asked for.

That's put a serious blow to my optimism for this coming year. I still think we have what it takes, but I'm far more cautious in my optimism now.
I realized reflecting back, I'm pretty sure I made the same argument on why we should have made the playoffs last year. Treliving practically upgraded every spot on the roster Gulutzan could have complained about and we still didn't make it.

That's put a damper on enthusiasm.
I realized reflecting back, I'm pretty sure I made the same argument on why we should have made the playoffs last year. Treliving practically upgraded every spot on the roster Gulutzan could have complained about and we still didn't make it.

That's put a damper on enthusiasm.

Well, not exactly. Last season, they did not address the right wing/top 6 scoring problem at all. And lo and behold, we didn't end up having enough scoring depth.

The slotting looks way better this year up front. And we still have the fixes on defence and in goal from last year. And beyond that, we got rid of some attitude problems.

The one thing that can trip us up is if we go through another painful adjustment period like we did with Gulutzan, though I would think the system changes are going to be minor enough that it's not so bad (and besides, we made the playoffs in that adjustment year somehow).

 

[Dack]

If we don't make at least the 3rd round in the next two years. I'd have to consider moving on from this core and starting fresh.

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

Goaltending is the only major question mark for me. Last season we were not even close to a playoff caliber team without Smith and as of today our backup situation is unchanged. However the upgrades up front (on paper) were so significant that we just might be able to score our way into the playoffs.

So yes I would be disappointed to see the team miss the playoffs but I can definitely see a very realistic scenario where that happens (early injury to Smith).

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Well, not exactly. Last season, they did not address the right wing/top 6 scoring problem at all. And lo and behold, we didn't end up having enough scoring depth.

The slotting looks way better this year up front. And we still have the fixes on defence and in goal from last year. And beyond that, we got rid of some attitude problems.

The one thing that can trip us up is if we go through another painful adjustment period like we did with Gulutzan, though I would think the system changes are going to be minor enough that it's not so bad (and besides, we made the playoffs in that adjustment year somehow).

Pretty much this. Honestly I think under a different coach our roster last season would have been a playoff team. Think of increased offence from Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Brouwer, Dougie, Gio, Brodie, under a different coaching staff and an improvement in Goals For, we probably get in last season.

This season we have no excuses, a coach Treliving has wanted since het met him, the attitude issues are out the window, the holes up front have been filled and we have depth. Our defence is very mobile and can skate, we also have youth all throughout the system pushing the vets. IMO, this team is poised to win the division.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Well, not exactly. Last season, they did not address the right wing/top 6 scoring problem at all. And lo and behold, we didn't end up having enough scoring depth.

The slotting looks way better this year up front. And we still have the fixes on defence and in goal from last year. And beyond that, we got rid of some attitude problems.

The one thing that can trip us up is if we go through another painful adjustment period like we did with Gulutzan, though I would think the system changes are going to be minor enough that it's not so bad (and besides, we made the playoffs in that adjustment year somehow).

Sorry, should have phrased it better. We were a playoff team, and Brad arguably dealt with two of our biggest needs, a new top four option for Brodie, and goaltending. Despite that, we still stepped backwards.

Upgrading Ferland would have been nice, but that was number 3 on my list personally. Arguably upgrading defensive depth was #4 on the list and Stone did that too.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I see it that:
Ferland = Neal
Lindholm was the addition to the top 6
Hanifin = Dougie

 

[Anglesmith]

I see it that:
Ferland = Neal
Lindholm was the addition to the top 6
Hanifin = Dougie

Ferland = Neal at the absolute best of times, which isn't often.

 

[super6646]

Pretty much this. Honestly I think under a different coach our roster last season would have been a playoff team. Think of increased offence from Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Brouwer, Dougie, Gio, Brodie, under a different coaching staff and an improvement in Goals For, we probably get in last season.

This season we have no excuses, a coach Treliving has wanted since het met him, the attitude issues are out the window, the holes up front have been filled and we have depth. Our defence is very mobile and can skate, we also have youth all throughout the system pushing the vets. IMO, this team is poised to win the division.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves until this team starts playing. Also, no playoff team should've had hathway has a 3rd line rw, and ferland shouldn't have been on our top line either.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Ferland = Neal at the absolute best of times, which isn't often.

At this stage of their careers, they are very much comparable players.

 

[Bounces R Way]

At this stage of their careers, they are very much comparable players.

James Neal has 10 straight 20 goal seasons, Ferland has one at the age of 26. Not really all that comparable. There's good reason one will be making 5.75 next year and the other will be making 4 million less.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

James Neal has 10 straight 20 goal seasons, Ferland has one at the age of 26. Not really all that comparable. There's good reason one will be making 5.75 next year and the other will be making 4 million less.

The key point there is Neal has played 10 seasons, I was not trying to compare careers. Going forward as of today there’s really not much difference between both players. It’s not a slight on Neal either but he’s clearly on the back 9 at this point. We should all be happy if Neal gets over 50pts the next 2 years (30 goals + 20 assists). I also expect Ferland to get 40-45pts, so I have them in the same tier.

 

[Bounces R Way]

The key point there is Neal has played 10 seasons, I was not trying to compare careers. Going forward as of today there’s really not much difference between both players. It’s not a slight on Neal either but he’s clearly on the back 9 at this point. We should all be happy if Neal gets over 50pts the next 2 years (30 goals + 20 assists). I also expect Ferland to get 40-45pts, so I have them in the same tier.

I like Ferland and all but would not be surprised at all if last season stands as his career high. Shot at nearly 15% playing with Gaudreau and Monahan. Don't think they are at all in the same tier and that Neal is much better, but I guess that's more of a personal opinion. Guess we'll see how effective he'll be on that back 9, as long as he doesn't lose his ability to rip it I think he'll be a fairly productive player.

 

[Anglesmith]

The key point there is Neal has played 10 seasons, I was not trying to compare careers. Going forward as of today there’s really not much difference between both players. It’s not a slight on Neal either but he’s clearly on the back 9 at this point. We should all be happy if Neal gets over 50pts the next 2 years (30 goals + 20 assists). I also expect Ferland to get 40-45pts, so I have them in the same tier.

I don't think there's any real justification for the statement that Neal is "clearly on the back 9" at 30 years old. Kopitar just put up a career year at this age, for comparison. 30 isn't old, and Neal hasn't done anything to show him slowing down in any way. He plays a style that ages well and doesn't rely on speed anyway. Just looking at his career 'arc,' he was a PPG guy with Pittsburgh, which you can chalk up to his ridiculous 30+ powerplay points per season pace with Sid, Malkin and Letang. Since then he's been up and down each season hovering around 45-55 points, but that seems to mostly follow who he gets to play with. Encouragingly, he probably had the weakest linemates of his entire career last season and improved his totals nonetheless. I think you can look for Neal to be a 50-point guy at least with an upgrade in linemates this year and top offensive opportunities as our best right-winger.

Meanwhile, it would be hard to argue that Ferland could land a better assignment in Raleigh than what he had in Calgary this past season, and he was still barely able to break 40 points. Does Ferland really have more room to grow? I'm not sure, to be honest. It could happen, but I think it's more likely at his age that he is what he is, and will only ever be effective in bursts. This current season, I think it would be a huge shock for Ferland to be at Neal's level offensively. If you want to make the argument that his physicality makes up the difference, go ahead, but even that part of his game isn't ever-present, frustratingly.

 

[Lunatik]

Neal > Ferland. Not an opinion, a fact.

Neal has shown with high end linemates, he can score with the best in the NHL. He has also shown that when used in a depth role he can score at a 25+ pace.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't think there's any real justification for the statement that Neal is "clearly on the back 9" at 30 years old. Kopitar just put up a career year at this age, for comparison. 30 isn't old, and Neal hasn't done anything to show him slowing down in any way. He plays a style that ages well and doesn't rely on speed anyway. Just looking at his career 'arc,' he was a PPG guy with Pittsburgh, which you can chalk up to his ridiculous 30+ powerplay points per season pace with Sid, Malkin and Letang. Since then he's been up and down each season hovering around 45-55 points, but that seems to mostly follow who he gets to play with. Encouragingly, he probably had the weakest linemates of his entire career last season and improved his totals nonetheless. I think you can look for Neal to be a 50-point guy at least with an upgrade in linemates this year and top offensive opportunities as our best right-winger.

Meanwhile, it would be hard to argue that Ferland could land a better assignment in Raleigh than what he had in Calgary this past season, and he was still barely able to break 40 points. Does Ferland really have more room to grow? I'm not sure, to be honest. It could happen, but I think it's more likely at his age that he is what he is, and will only ever be effective in bursts. This current season, I think it would be a huge shock for Ferland to be at Neal's level offensively. If you want to make the argument that his physicality makes up the difference, go ahead, but even that part of his game isn't ever-present, frustratingly.

Neal is "declining" in the eyes of HF because he he isn't a point per game player anymore. They completely ignore that no longer plays for the Pens and isn't being fed by Malkin or Crosby and reverted back to the same numbers he had in Dallas.

 

[InfinityIggy]

At this stage of their careers, they are very much comparable players.

Don't think so fam. Ferland just had a career year (quote me I ain't afraid of no ghost). Neal still should have a couple more good years in the tank.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Is Neal more physical than Ferland, nope. Is Neal a better skater than Ferland, nope. Is Neal better defensively, its arguable but I'd say they are about par. If Neal scores 10 more points than Ferly, maybe its just me but I don't really categorize that as him being in another tier of player.

My guess is that they are within 5-10 points of each other by the end of next season. Anyways my argument was that Neal is going to basically replace what Ferland did last year, I standby that.

 

[Anglesmith]

Is Neal more physical than Ferland, nope. Is Neal a better skater than Ferland, nope. Is Neal better defensively, its arguable but I'd say they are about par. If Neal scores 10 more points than Ferly, maybe its just me but I don't really categorize that as him being in another tier of player.

My guess is that they are within 5-10 points of each other by the end of next season. Anyways my argument was that Neal is going to basically replace what Ferland did last year, I standby that.

Maybe 5-on-5, but don't you think Neal will be able to help the powerplay (one of our major, major issues from last season) in a way that Ferland couldn't?

 

[BigRangy]

I see it that:
Ferland = Neal
Lindholm was the addition to the top 6
Hanifin = Dougie

Just lol at the bolded

Maybe in a few years time, but Hanifin is half the player Doug is right now, imo. I could be wrong and selfishly I want to be wrong, but the Flames subtracted a huge amount going from Hamilton to Hanifin

 

[Lunatik]

Just lol at the bolded

Maybe in a few years time, but Hanifin is half the player Doug is right now, imo. I could be wrong and selfishly I want to be wrong, but the Flames subtracted a huge amount going from Hamilton to Hanifin

Hanifin is what Dougie was when he arrived with the Flames.

People can debate it if they want, but I'm willing to bet that Hamilton takes a major step backwards without Giordano. While Dougie improved during his time here, it wasn't so much that Hanifin and Gio propping up Brodie can't replace