How much higher should have Suzuki and Caufield been drafted?

[Prairie Habs]

I'd have Caufield maybe 5th in a 2019 redraft. But not much certainty with that - there's several guys that could easily jump back ahead of him and he could end up 10th. For now I'm only confident in Hughes, Seider, and Zegras ahead of him.

Suzuki goes maybe 6th through 8th. Behind Necas, Robertson, Makar, Pettersson, Heiskanen, and not sure about Norris or Hischier.



Jack Hughes started in the NHL too young, he's younger than Caufield and still filling out. He's actually younger now than Caufield was when Caufield made his NHL debut. And their scoring paces are pretty similar this year, so I don't know why Caufield would go ahead. Hughes' finishing is his weakest part of the game, outside of that he makes a much bigger impact than Caufield.

You make that sound like its some major difference. Caufield debuted less than 2 months ago. He's about 4 months older than Hughes, I wouldn't read too much into it.

Suzuki's also at worst tied with Necas, Robertson, and maybe even Heiskanen too now after a softer season from him. Realistically he goes 4-6 after Makar, Petterson, Heiskanen in that order.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Players that go deep in the playoffs always get this treatment. "Oh, they are better than so and so, certainly!" One playoff doesn't make someone better than someone else who is currently rated higher than them. Lots of players in league history had amazing one off runs in the post season only to come nowhere close afterwards.

Exactly this. I remember the Matt Murray threads during his back-to-back cups with Pittsburgh.

There is a bigger chance that these guys turn out to be flashes in pans than perennial all stars. Gonna be funny when the fans eventually turn on them.

 

[ole ole]

Is it just me or Caufield look like a better player than Jack Hughes??

Suzuki skills/instincts are also very advanced

Montreal gm is very annoying... everything coming together nicely, like a perfect storm

Where's that poster that claimed that Caufield wouldn't get 20 goals during his whole career if he was even lucky enough to have a career.

 

[ole ole]

The bigger question is whether or not they should've traded Pacioretty for Suzuki.

Oh the Habs did right. The question why did the Knights do it.

 

[MessierII]

Caufeild was always the steal of the draft. I had him as a top 5 prospect that year.

 

[HBK27]

Maybe others

But already enough sample size of Jack Hughes

Enough of a sample size on Jack Hughes...to determine who is going to have a better career?

This makes no sense. Hughes gets penalized for actually playing in the NHL while most of his peers haven't and as a result, they get the benefit of the doubt for having a "small sample size"?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

VGK really should have allowed Habs to have Glass in the Patches trade. That's who they desperately wanted but in the end they got their second choice Suzuki which has turned out to be an outstanding choice

 

[HockeyWooot]

They should have gone higher. Suzuki is easily top6 with the potential to go higher.

If I have tiers of 2017 draftees it would be something as follows. Obviously it’s early days and they can move up. Suzuki’s 200 ft game is great I like the Bergeron comparison.

Makar/Pettersson/Heiskanen
Suzuki/Necas/Robertson
Norris/Batherson/Thomas/Comtois

There are still 2017 draftees who are just breaking into the NHL now that might end up in this range. Some promising young players out there.

2019 is just too early to be ranking, but I’d be surprised it there are 14 better players than Caufield when all is said and done. Having said that I think it’s far premature to say he’s a slam dunk to be a top 5 player in the draft.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Caufield will have the same impact as a Patrick Kane have with the hawks for the habs so I don't see why he couldn't be first now. Kid is playing playoff hockey right now and other kids are playing golf IMO

IMO it is not reasonable to expect a 2019 draft pick to carry a team to the conference finals

 

[ole ole]

Caufeild was always the steal of the draft. I had him as a top 5 prospect that year.

Yes Caufield was a steal at 15 and the trade for Suzuki was another friggin steal.

 

[General Disarray]

While Vegas was dumb for trading him away, who is the GM that was equally dumb for trading that pick to Vegas in the first place? They deserve some flack too.

 

[beowulf]

Suzuki was a top ten pick, so I don't think it's out of line where he was selected. Cole was widely regarded going into his draft as a top 5 talent, and he and Kaliyev had the best shots, but his lack of size meant he fell to 15. Hard to say where he goes if Montreal didn't take him.

Edit: oops. Thought Nick went top ten. Fair to say that Pettersson, Makar, Suzuki and Necas are the best out of the top 15 so far.

Ya Vegas even picked Glass over him with their first pick of that draft though Cody still could turn into a great player, just taking a little more time to develop.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

#1 OA for both obviously

 

[OKR]

It’s just awfully funny how most people had Caufield dropping in Draft ranking at this point last year, and now he is certain top 5, just tells you how much can and will change...

If someone like Boldy starts out on fire next season and Caufield or Seider struggle even a bit at start of the next season Boldy will be talked about in the same way as Caufield and Seider are now, and Seider and Caufield will drop in hfboards rankings.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

While Vegas was dumb for trading him away, who is the GM that was equally dumb for trading that pick to Vegas in the first place? They deserve some flack too.

I believe that was the Jets GM.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they trade that pick to Vegas along with a scrub for a pick 10 spots lower (Kristian Vesalainen) just so Vegas wouldn't pick Toby Enstrom (who I think played one more playoff game before retiring)? If that's what went down, holy shit what a bad move.

 

[BLNY]

Ya Vegas even picked Glass over him with their first pick of that draft though Cody still could turn into a great player, just taking a little more time to develop.

Yes. I think I had them backwards in order in my head when I posted in the wee hours.

 

[rocketdan9]

It’s just awfully funny how most people had Caufield dropping in Draft ranking at this point last year, and now he is certain top 5, just tells you how much can and will change...

If someone like Boldy starts out on fire next season and Caufield or Seider struggle even a bit at start of the next season Boldy will be talked about in the same way as Caufield and Seider are now, and Seider and Caufield will drop in hfboards rankings.

Its due to height

The height concerns is legit... especially for D prospects

But I would say for forwards not as much. On the condition that, the player is an above average skater, has a strong lower base and knows how to avoid getting killed on the ice

There are some good ones "shortys" for the 2021 draft.

 

[MXD]

I didn't even know about this

reminds me of a young Gionta

I get the comparison, because both are small, but...
Caufield plays absolutely nothing like Gionta.
But there is a comparison to be made with ex small Hab Cammalleri though (albeit less selfish).

 

[rocketdan9]

I get the comparison, because both are small, but...
Caufield plays absolutely nothing like Gionta.
But there is a comparison to be made with ex small Hab Cammalleri though (albeit less selfish).

why not? Gionta in his 2nd or 3rd year scored 48 goals and 80 something points

He had several other 60 point seasons

Now Gionta was a little more fiestier?

But he had better hands than people credit him for. Very good instincts

Both are not the fastest skaters but above average

Cammelleri was a FAST skater. And also a sniper

Caufield has a good shot. But he is not flashy like Cammelleri. Not as fast either

 

[WesMcCauley]

Suzuki firmly #4 in a redraft

1. Makar/Pettersson
3. Heiskanen
4. Suzuki

2019 is harder to say, give it two more years and it's as clear as 2017

Right now you have

Hughes
Dach
Caufield
Zegras
Knight
Seider

I probably go with Dach just because his floor is already a top 6 center. Then you have Zegras Hughes center potential and Knight as the best G prospect since Vasilevskiy.

There is no winger I take above Caufield and only Pettersson as a fwd I take above Suzuki

Jason Robertson should probably be above Suzuki imo. 46 points in 54 games.

 

[MXD]

why not? Gionta in his 2nd or 3rd year scored 48 goals and 80 something points

He had several other 60 point seasons

Now Gionta was a little more fiestier?

But he had better hands than people credit him for. Very good instincts

Both are not the fastest skaters but above average

Cammelleri was a FAST skater. And also a sniper

Caufield has a good shot. But he is not flashy like Cammelleri. Not as fast either

How they played and how they scored. Caufield is really nothing like Gionta (who played and scored much more like Gallagher, albeit with more skill).

 

[rocketdan9]

Jason Robertson should probably be above Suzuki imo. 46 points in 54 games.

Thats regular season hockey.... no clue if he could do the same in the playoffs or "fold"

Even those perceived special players...lack that extra gear for the playoffs/able to excel at the next pace

 

[rocketdan9]

How they played and how they scored. Caufield is really nothing like Gionta (who played and scored much more like Gallagher, albeit with more skill).

yes but Caufield and Gionta share more in common than Caufield and Cammelleri

take out the "grit" of Gionta.... then would be easier to digest the comparison

 

[General Disarray]

I believe that was the Jets GM.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they trade that pick to Vegas along with a scrub for a pick 10 spots lower (Kristian Vesalainen) just so Vegas wouldn't pick Toby Enstrom (who I think played one more playoff game before retiring)? If that's what went down, holy shit what a bad move.

Oh wow. Jets GM has really dropped the ball the last few years after a promising start.

 

[WaW]

Looks like a very fair trade

Tatar basically put up the same numbers as Pacioretty since the trade, Suzuki was the other piece lol.

Considering Vegas chose to keep Glass over Suzuki, it looks even worse.

Think of it like this...just a few months before that trade, Vegas traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar, a second line winger they tried to force into a 3rd line role from the start. Shocked that pounding a square peg into a circle wasnt working, they then packaged Tatar with one of their top 2 prospects for a player who produces at around the same rate, or just a bit better, than Tatar has (until these playoffs really where hes been injured/scratched out of the blue) in a similar role on a worse team.

They pretty much traded Suzuki, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for a one-dimensional goal scoring winger. A useful player, no doubt, but surely there were cheaper ways of acquiring one.

I know popular opinion drives the narrative, and on hockey discussion communities, Bergevin is seen as a weaker GM and McPhee/McCrimmon are viewed more positively (and overall, I'd even tend to agree), but this doesn't mean Bergevin can't do good/McPhee and McCrimmon can't do bad. On overall value, Montreal definitely got the better of this trade. For Vegas, it just won't matter if they manage to win a cup at any point over the Pacioretty contract.