How much did Gretzky benefit from expansion teams?

[Vanzig]

Weird then how once Gretzky left Edmonton a 23 year old Lemieux had 35 more goals and the same amount of assists as a 27/28 year old Gretzky in 2 less games. The point is, competition matters and Lemieux was simply a more skilled hockey player who hit his peak after the diluted period of the NHL while also dealing with a ton of injuries. It's not exactly an outrageous argument to make.

Age doesn’t matter, some guys peak early and some peak later, It’s what you do in your career.

Gretzky never padded his goal stats on the power play like MARIO LEMIEUX did, MARIO had 30+ Power-Play Goals in a single season 2 times, Gretzky highest was 20 Power-Play Goals (Only Hit 20 Once), Even more impressive was Gretzky Having More SHORTHANDED Goals than PowerPlay Goals in a single season.

Is it even possible that a Player (#99) can Score 70+ Goals
(He Scored 73) & have ONLY “8 Power-Play” Goals??? (Nope).
That’s insane when you think about it.
I’m not knocking Mario, He was 1 of the Best Players (TOP 5) Ever.

3 out of every 5 Goals scored by #66 was Powerplay.
1 out of every 5 Goals scored by #99 was Powerplay.

But I Love BOTH Players, Debate’s will alway’s happen but I’m glad I saw BOTH Players play on the same Line for roughly 4 Games in 1987 “WORLD/Canada CUP” which was incredible the way they both dominated. Of the Best of 3 FINAL’s every Game was 6-5 and Team Canada Won with the 2 Best Forwards in Hockey History playin together.

 

[authentic]

Age doesn’t matter, some guys peak early and some peak later, It’s what you do in your career.

Gretzky never padded his goal stats on the power play like MARIO LEMIEUX did, MARIO had 30+ Power-Play Goals in a single season 2 times, Gretzky highest was 20 Power-Play Goals (Only Hit 20 Once), Even more impressive was Gretzky Having More SHORTHANDED Goals than PowerPlay Goals in a single season.

Is it even possible that a Player (#99) can Score 70+ Goals
(He Scored 73) & have ONLY “8 Power-Play” Goals??? (Nope).
That’s insane when you think about it.
I’m not knocking Mario, He was 1 of the Best Players (TOP 5) Ever.

3 out of every 5 Goals scored by #66 was Powerplay.
1 out of every 5 Goals scored by #99 was Powerplay.

But I Love BOTH Players, Debate’s will alway’s happen but I’m glad I saw BOTH Players play on the same Line for roughly 4 Games in 1987 “WORLD/Canada CUP” which was incredible the way they both dominated. Of the Best of 3 FINAL’s every Game was 6-5 and Team Canada Won with the 2 Best Forwards in Hockey History playin together.

3 out of every 5? He didn't score 60% of his goals on the powerplay, especially not in his prime.

Yeah I own the Canada Cup DVD and have watched every game several times, it's pretty fun hockey to watch that's for sure.

 

[Vanzig]

3 out of every 5? He didn't score 60% of his goals on the powerplay, especially not in his prime.

Yeah I own the Canada Cup DVD and have watched every game several times, it's pretty fun hockey to watch that's for sure.

Hey man, I’m not arguing with ya, 236 of lemieux’s 690 career goals which is 34% mathematically. I’m just saying, Mario was more a shooter on Powerplay where gretzky was more a playmaker.

Ya the Canada Cup dvd’s Are awesome eh, Look at my photo for my pic, its the 1984 team Canada DVD, Did u get that 1??
All 8 games of the 1984 Canada cup plus 1 game from the 1981 where Russia smoked canada in final, such an awesome DVD, I wish the 1991 team canada DVD box set would come out, they have the 1972, 1976, 1984, 1987 but no 1981 and no 1991, i can see why the 1981 one wouldn’t sell cuz they lost but I’d buy it, but the 1991 was killer, they went UNDEFEATED.

I have both GRETZ/LEMIEUX jerseys, I’m, a vhs/DVD collector. I have 400+ games from late 1950’s - 2000’ish from tape trading and stuff, i got a lot of Mario pens stuff. I Met Mario, He wasn’t overly nice but he signed. Never met Wayne. But ya, I’m just talkin about CAREER numbers via Powerplay,

When people don’t include MARIO in the TOP 5 all time or even TOP 3 FORWARDS all time i shake my head eh, cheers

 

[Big Phil]

Does he score 200+ today? You'd have to say no, although don't ever bet against a prime Gretzky. However, none of that matters. Every other player in the NHL whether it was Guy Lafleur or Marcel Dionne or Mike Bossy or Bryan Trottier or Peter Stastny, they all played against the same teams.

Put it this way, the top scorer in the NHL right now is Mikko Rantanen. He is on pace for 136 points. MacKinnon is right there with him and Kucherov and McDavid are there too. I think most of us figure McDavid overtakes him by the end of the year. It took him about 60 games to do it to Kucherov last year. But either way is it safe to say the NHL's top scorer gets 125 points this year? Probably. So explain to me how Gretzky isn't hitting 180 in today's game? Mikko Rantanen didn't have the year to year consistency of Mike Bossy and probably never will and Gretzky routinely had more assists than Bossy had points.

So at the end of the day, does it really matter who Gretzky was scoring on? It was an even playing field and as always Gretzky lapped the field.

 

[Minar]

It is hard speculation, would is super precise slap shot has good has a weapon in 95-96 ?

He could still score hattricks in the playoff with it:



In 96-97 against an all star type of goaltender, seem that he would still be able to beat goaltender of the era with it, would he have has much time to launch it is an other question ?



[QUOTE="MadLuke, post: 153898783, member: 1156t is hard speculation, would is super precise slap shot has good has a weapon in 95-96 ?

He could still score hattricks in the playoff with it:



In 96-97 against an all star type of goaltender, seem that he would still be able to beat goaltender of the era with it, would he have has much time to launch it is an other question ?


Didn't Peterson score just the other night on a slapper off the wing no traffic ala gretzky? Didnt ovechkin just score the other night with a slapper at es off the wing no traffic? (not a one timer). Why couldn't 99 be successful with his slapper today on these goalies? With that shot and accuracy? A prime 99 im convinced would be just as dangerous.

 

[Minar]

Didnt ovechkin just score the other night with a slapper at es off the wing no traffic? (not a one timer). Didn't Peterson score on a slapper from the wing no traffic ala gretzky the other night? I'm convinced 99 in his prime with that accuracy and shot would be dangerous today.

 

[MadLuke]

Didnt ovechkin just score the other night with a slapper at es off the wing no traffic? (not a one timer). Didn't Peterson score on a slapper from the wing no traffic ala gretzky the other night? I'm convinced 99 in his prime with that accuracy and shot would be dangerous today.

Like I said, he would be able to score with it when he would be able to launch it, would he be leading the league with a 350+ shots players like he was in is peak in this league ? Maybe, but that not enough shot to be a goal a game players nowaday I would say.

Gretzky was already more a 40-50 goal scorer before Suter injury than a 70+, just age or a sign ?

 

[shazariahl]

Like I said, he would be able to score with it when he would be able to launch it, would he be leading the league with a 350+ shots players like he was in is peak in this league ? Maybe, but that not enough shot to be a goal a game players nowaday I would say.

Gretzky was already more a 40-50 goal scorer before Suter injury than a 70+, just age or a sign ?

Gretzky was slowing down before the hit, but that's to be expected by then. The guy still won 5 Richards and has the league records for most 40 goal seasons, most 50 (tied with Bossy), most 60, most 70, most 80, and the only 90 goal season ever. When people act like Gretzky didn't have longevity as a goal scorer, they forget how good he was how early. He was a 50 goal scorer as a rookie. His 2nd season he breaks single season records for points and assists. By his 3rd season had already broken Richard's 50 in 50 (with 50 in 39), and Espo's single season record. He was then on pace to beat his own 92 goals the year of his shoulder injury (ended with 87 goal in 74 games, or 1.18 GPG the highest in the modern era), while also breaking his own points and assists records.

In Gretzky's case he just seemed to peak on the early side of his career, while Lemieux peaked late, which is what causes some of the perception that Gretzky lacked longevity, IMO. He didn't, we just tend to forget that by his 3rd season, the only records left to break were career records or his own.

 

[The Panther]

Gretzky was already more a 40-50 goal scorer before Suter injury than a 70+, just age or a sign ?

I don't think Gretzky had lost anything prior to the Suter injury (and his father's aneurysm, the two being almost simultaneous), other than a bit of bravery to go to the front of the net.

When he was having his 70+ goal seasons for four years in a row, he was putting 350 shots on net per 80 games. But in 1990-91 (immediately prior the Suter-ing) he has 212 shots on net. His shooting percentage that season is his highest since 1986-87, and is virtually the same as in 1984-85 and 1982-83 when he scored 73 and 71 goals. After age 26 or so, he simply wasn't putting as much rubber on the net.

Still, I'll maintain that 1990-91 -- the final season of his '12 year prime', if you will -- is one of his very finest. To start with, there's nothing less than outstanding about a playmaking center scoring 41 goals in 78 games. Okay, he was only 13th in goals-scored that season, but he wasn't even in the top-35 players in shots on net. In fact, in the second half of the season, he put only 97 shots on net (not in the top-50 players). Clearly there was nothing wrong with his goal-scoring ability in 1990-91, other than he wasn't concentrating on shooting as much as he had in the early/mid-80s. He also scored 33 goals at even strength, which tied him with Yzerman and Sakic for third most in the League.

He won the scoring title by 32 points, the highest margin since... himself in 1987. He led his team in scoring by 72 points (over a Hall of Famer).

He also had the 4th-best plus/minus of all NHL forwards (7th overall), and his team finished 1st in the division for the first time ever and had the best goal-differential in the NHL.

The average team that season scored 276 goals, versus a pace of 253 for this season (so far). It isn't some drastically different scoring environment in 1991 than today, other than teams probably having more power-play opportunities then.

1990-91 is one of Gretzky's greatest seasons, and his best in L.A.


Then... Suter.

 

[Big Phil]

Like I said, he would be able to score with it when he would be able to launch it, would he be leading the league with a 350+ shots players like he was in is peak in this league ? Maybe, but that not enough shot to be a goal a game players nowaday I would say.

Gretzky was already more a 40-50 goal scorer before Suter injury than a 70+, just age or a sign ?

Why did Gretzky have so much time to do it in his prime? Easy............hockey sense. When you can anticipate a play better than anyone else on the ice you can see the ice better and you have more room.

Before the Suter injury Gretzky still nearly had more assists in 1991 than anyone else had points. He "only" had 41 goals, but like almost every other player in NHL history his goal scoring started declining in his later 20s. Some of it I wonder if Gretzky just purposely focused more on assists than goals, but either way he was head and shoulders above the rest of the NHL at that time outside of a healthy Lemieux. Watch him in the 1991 Canada Cup. He was still like a slippery waterbug out there, lots of quickness and shiftiness still. He definitely lost much of this after the Suter hit.