how much better was 03's top 10 compaired to this years?

[monster_bertuzzi]

When Zach Parise falls to #17, you know your draft class is elite

Or some of the GM's are brain-dead for taking Jessiman, Brown, nilsson etc. ahead of him.

 

[Traitor8]

You'll see monster_bertuzzi...

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Aside from Alexander Ovechkin, nobody in the 2004 Draft stacks up to any of the top 3 forwards taken in 2003 most likely (Staal, Horton, Zherdev), Marc-Andre Fleury blows out any goaltender in the 2004 draft by a long margin, and Suter, Coburn, and Phaneuf are all probobly better than Cam Barker.

Basically, Ovechkin would have gone #1 in either draft, but aside from that, things fall way, way down.

Of your list there, only Malkin would be a sure bet to go top 10.

Thank you for posting that, I find it quite humorous seeing Malkin, Barker, Ladd, Wolski, Radulov ect so high. Aside from Ovechkin 11-20 from last year is probably stronger then 2 - 11 this year.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

You'll see monster_bertuzzi...

Just like you will see Komisarek will be a Stevens with offense in the end.

 

[db23]

Thank you for posting that, I find it quite humorous seeing Malkin, Barker, Ladd, Wolski, Radulov ect so high. Aside from Ovechkin 11-20 from last year is probably stronger then 2 - 11 this year.

That is sheer lunacy. Malkin had much better RSL numbers this year than Kastitsyn had this year or last. Malkin is a lot bigger and is a year and a half younger. The same holds true if you compare Thelen and Suter. Thelen is over a year younger, a lot bigger and had a much more productive season against the same competition. If anything, MSU played a tougher schedule than Wisconsin.

There is no way you can make any sort of case that Kastitsyn is a better prospect than Malkin or that Suter is a better prospect than Thelen. For that matter, I have great difficulty in seeing Coburn as being a better prospect than Barker. I am willing to bet that given the choice of building their team around Barker or Coburn, about 90% of WHL coaches would choose Cam.

Zherdev is nearly 2 years older than Malkin. Malkin scored 12 points in 34 RSL games to Zherdev's 4 points in 20 RSL games this season.

 

[Sammy*]

That is sheer lunacy. Malkin had much better RSL numbers this year than Kastitsyn had this year or last. Malkin is a lot bigger and is a year and a half younger. The same holds true if you compare Thelen and Suter. Thelen is over a year younger, a lot bigger and had a much more productive season against the same competition. If anything, MSU played a tougher schedule than Wisconsin.

There is no way you can make any sort of case that Kastitsyn is a better prospect than Malkin or that Suter is a better prospect than Thelen. For that matter, I have great difficulty in seeing Coburn as being a better prospect than Barker. I am willing to bet that given the choice of building their team around Barker or Coburn, about 90% of WHL coaches would choose Cam.

Why didnt Thelen make Team USA?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

That is sheer lunacy. Malkin had much better RSL numbers this year than Kastitsyn had this year or last. Malkin is a lot bigger and is a year and a half younger. The same holds true if you compare Thelen and Suter. Thelen is over a year younger, a lot bigger and had a much more productive season against the same competition. If anything, MSU played a tougher schedule than Wisconsin.

There is no way you can make any sort of case that Kastitsyn is a better prospect than Malkin or that Suter is a better prospect than Thelen. For that matter, I have great difficulty in seeing Coburn as being a better prospect than Barker. I am willing to bet that given the choice of building their team around Barker or Coburn, about 90% of WHL coaches would choose Cam.

Zherdev is nearly 2 years older than Malkin. Malkin scored 12 points in 34 RSL games to Zherdev's 4 points in 20 RSL games this season.

Why are you rambling on, I was talking about overall skill an potential. Not player vs player.

 

[Epsilon]

Why are you rambling on, I was talking about overall skill an potential. Not player vs player.

To be fair to him your post is a bit ambivalent. I interpreted it the same way he did on first read. Now that you've clarified what you meant it makes more sense.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Kostsitsyn=Kovalev with better work ethic

:lol

 

[Rabid Ranger]

:lol

It just kills me how homer posters throw around accomplished NHLers' names and say their prospects are going to be that much superior. It's a joke.

 

[Habsaku]

Komisarek8 and db23 are polar opposites that really sound alike in the end. both of them havent even seen Kastitsyn play yet they talk about him like they knew him more then pro scouts. anyways, db23 has contributed to nothing to this board up to now so take his comments with a grain of salt(or a lot of cocain).



btw Hainsey=a more talented Paul Coffey!!!!!

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

i really wished kastisyn fell down to the kings, but, honestly, he did nothing to prove this year he should have been drafted earlier then the #10 spot in the 2003 draft. i still think he's going to be good, but i think redline may have overhyped him too much.

on the other hand, i'm fairly happy with the brown pick. i duno why anyone would pick parise over brown. brown made the team right out of camp. parise got 6 points less then last year in the NCAA. brown has size, parise is small. we already picked up a small skilled forward in brady murray (a freshman who ended up playing on the same line with parise). i'd rather have brown anyday ofthe year.

 

[Herby]

The same people calling Brown a disappointment because he didn't score much in the NHL as an 18/19 year old were saying the same thing about Joe Thornton and Rick DiPietro when they sturggled as 18/19 year olds.

If Brown had gone back to Guelph and scored 45 goals and lead his team to the Memorial Cup and had a big WJC he would be hyped to death.

But making the NHL as an 18 year old and winning a Bronze Medal at the WC's as a 19 year old proves well for Brown's development.

 

[Riggins]

Look around before you make a statement, or you just end up sounding ridiculous.

Kind of like the way you did spelling Kastsitsyn's name differently on three separate occasions in this thread. I guess you have the real inside scoop on him.

 

[db23]

Why didnt Thelen make Team USA?

Age, mostly. The Americans always go with mainly 19 year olds and a few 18 year olds. Thelen was 17. He still has 2 years of eligibility remaining. The U.S. tries to give many different players participate in the WJC, rather than have players attend three or four years.

 

[db23]

Why are you rambling on, I was talking about overall skill an potential. Not player vs player.

What is the difference? If Malkin, Barker and Thelen are outperforming Kastitsyn, Coburn and Suter now, even though they are all over a year younger, why couldn't they do that in the future?
You said that outside of Ovechkin, no 2004 eligible draftee would crack the top ten in a joint 2003/2004 draft. In order to test that hypothesis obviously you have to compare players from each year who are playing the same postion against the same competition. It is easy just to make a blanket presumption, but if it doesn't stand up under examination it is worthless.

 

[db23]

Kind of like the way you did spelling Kastsitsyn's name differently on three separate occasions in this thread. I guess you have the real inside scoop on him.

Well, his name is spelled several different ways wherever you look. In Russia it is Kosticyn, which is probably the way it should be spelled.

 

[Sammy*]

Age, mostly. The Americans always go with mainly 19 year olds and a few 18 year olds. Thelen was 17. He still has 2 years of eligibility remaining. The U.S. tries to give many different players participate in the WJC, rather than have players attend three or four years.

What a bunch of BS. They try to ice the best possible team. Thats why Suter made it when he was in his draft year (same age as Thelen was this year).So why didnt Thelen?
Your argumement is disingenuous. Like Team USA wouldnt put a D-man on ther team (ie. Thelen) if he was better than arguably Team USA's #1 or at worse #2 D-man.

 

[AJ1982]

What a bunch of BS. They try to ice the best possible team. Thats why Suter made it when he was in his draft year (same age as Thelen was this year).So why didnt Thelen?
Your argumement is disingenuous. Like Team USA wouldnt put a D-man on ther team (ie. Thelen) if he was better than arguably Team USA's #1 or at worse #2 D-man.

They try to ice the best team they can while maintaining team chemistry. This year they went with the Parise crew, which includes Suter and other's from the gold medal U-17 team a few years back. Thelen was as qualified, if not more qualified, to be on that team as half the defenders on the US team. The same goes for Schremp, who didn't make it due to politics more than anything else. It really isn't far fetched to say that Thelen would have been a top 3 d-man on this years u-20 team and that Schremp could have been a top two line player. they are both talented enough but it was politics and trying to keep the same guys together as previous national teams that kept those guys off the roster, nothing more.

 

[Sammy*]

They try to ice the best team they can while maintaining team chemistry. .

Wont argue with that. I think maintaining team chemistry is part & parcel of
icing the best team .
However, I think its BS that if Thelen was better than Suter as db states (or for matter, if it was even close) , given that Suter was the US #1 or or at worst, #2 d-man. Common sense tells you he would have easily made the team if that were the case.

 

[Traitor8]

I did see Kostsitsyn play so please get your facts straight "habsaku" before speaking. Second of all, I am not saying Kovalev doesn't have work ethic, I am saying his work ethic is less then Kostsitsyn's. That said. Malkin, IMO, I would draft him any day over Nikolai Zherdev. And for someone who said just like u said

Komisarek = Stevens...

Just give him time..you will see...he already started this playoffs and once he gets 20 min a game..look out..he got 19 min in game 7 against Boston.

That said ..here's my top 20:

1)Ovechkin
2)Malkin
3)Fleury
4)Horton
5)Staal
6)Zherdev
7)Kostsitsyn
8)Olesz
9)Michalek
10)Phaneuf

 

[Herby]

That said ..here's my top 20:

1)Ovechkin
2)Malkin
3)Fleury
4)Horton
5)Staal
6)Zherdev
7)Kostsitsyn
8)Olesz
9)Michalek
10)Phaneuf

How on Earth with the season he had does Kostitsyn RISE on your list, rise not only above guys from his draft class who played better than he did like Phaneuf, Vanek, Suter, Parise, Brown and Fehr but also ahead 04 guys like Cam Barker and AJ Thelen who had excellent seasons.

It's just amazing to me how anyone could say with the season he had that Kostitsyn's stock went up as you are suggesting. Or is is homerism?

 

[Sammy*]

How on Earth with the season he had does Kostitsyn RISE on your list, rise not only above guys from his draft class who played better than he did like Phaneuf, Vanek, Suter, Parise, Brown and Fehr but also ahead 04 guys like Cam Barker and AJ Thelen who had excellent seasons.

To ask the question is to know the answer.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I did see Kostsitsyn play so please get your facts straight "habsaku" before speaking. Second of all, I am not saying Kovalev doesn't have work ethic, I am saying his work ethic is less then Kostsitsyn's. That said. Malkin, IMO, I would draft him any day over Nikolai Zherdev. And for someone who said just like u said

Komisarek = Stevens...

Just give him time..you will see...he already started this playoffs and once he gets 20 min a game..look out..he got 19 min in game 7 against Boston.

Stuff like this makes your thread where you asked how to become a GM all the more hilarious.

 

[db23]

Wont argue with that. I think maintaining team chemistry is part & parcel of
icing the best team .
However, I think its BS that if Thelen was better than Suter as db states (or for matter, if it was even close) , given that Suter was the US #1 or or at worst, #2 d-man. Common sense tells you he would have easily made the team if that were the case.

An NCAA watcher on another thread said that Thelen was invited, but turned it down because he had a heavy exam schedule to contend with around the time of the tournament. He still has two WJC's to look forward to in his future, so it makes sense.