How Mike Ilitch passing away was our Organizational turning point.

[Henkka]

Mike Ilitch passed away on February 10 th 2017.

Ken Holland was a loyal GM for his owner. Holland completed his owner's vision for 20 years. It was "never surrender"-mentality, always fight for a win and build for winning.

Actions after Mike Ilitch died on 10th February 2017:

- Sold Tomas Jurco 2 weeks after for a 3rd pick (24th February 2017)
- Sold Brendan Smith 4 days later for 2nd+3rd (28th February)
- Sold Tomas Vanek for 3rd + Dylan McIrath (1st March 2017)
- Sold Steve Ott for 6th pick (1st March 2017)
- Sold Tom McCollum in the summer for conditional 7th (July 2017)
- Sold Ryan Sproul for Matt Puempel (October 2017)
- Sold Riley Sheahan +pick for Scott Wilson + pick (October 2017)
- Sold Scott Wilson 6 weeks later for a pick. (December 2017)
- Sold Petr Mrazek for 3rd+4th (February 2018)
- Sold Tomas Tatar for 1st+2nd+3rd (February 2018)
- Sold Robbie Russo for conditional 7th (June 2018)
- Re-signed Mike Green as UFA
- Signed Tomas Vanek as UFA
- Acquired Jacob de la Rose from waivers for free (October 2018)

This is kind of 100% perfect asset management, team future in sight. Free players in, and players who go out go only for futures (pick) or meaningless AHL level trades for AHL help.

***

Last 4-season action when Mike Ilitch was still alive:

- Sold retiring Pavel Datsyuk's caphit + #18 overall to Arizona for LTIRretiring Joe Vitale + #20 overall (Dennis Cholowski) + #58 overall (Filip Hronek). (June 2016)
- Acquired Dylan Sadowy for 3rd (May 2016)
- Sold Jakub Kindl for 6th (Februay 2016)
- Acquired Marek Zidlicky for 3rd (March 2015)
- Acquired Eric Cole + 3rd for Mattias Janmark + Mattias Bäckman + 2nd (March 2015)
- Acquired David Legwand for Calle Järnkrok + Patrick Eaves + 3rd (March 2014)
- Sold Kent Huskins for conditional 7th (March 2013, conditions were never met)
- Sold Brad Stuart's rights for conditional 7th (Alexander Kadeykin) + Andrew Murray. (June 2012)
- Acquired Mike Commodore for conditional 7th (February 2012, conditions never met)
- Acquired Kyle Quincey for 1st + Sebastian Piche (February 2012)

So, when Mike Ilitch was alive and Ken Holland was this "GM who doesn't care about future and throws picks away for useless veterans" he did:

Trade away:
2012 1st (Quincey-Downie)
2016 1st (Datsyuk-Vitale)
2015 2nd (Cole)
2015 3rd (Legwand)
2016 3rd (Zidlicky)
2017 3rd (Sadowy)

Traded in:
2016 1st (Datsyuk-Vitale)
2016 2nd (Datsyuk-Vitale)
2015 3rd (Cole)
2016 6th (Kindl)
2014 7th (Stuart)

So when Holland was a "buyer", he almost got in same amount of picks as he threw out. Lost in overall value because of higher picks, but all in all, 5 lower picks in and 6 higher picks out during 4 seasons.

After Mike Ilitch passed away, the pick-trades look like this:

Traded away:
5th 2018 (Sheahan-Wilson)

Traded in:
1st 2018 (Tatar)
2nd 2018 (Smith)
2nd 2019 (Tatar)
3rd 2017 (Jurco)
3rd 2017 (Vanek)
3rd 2017 (Smith)
3rd 2018 (Sheahan-Wilson)
3rd 2019 (Mrazek)
3rd 2021 (Tatar)
4th 2018 (Mrazek)
5th 2019 (Wilson)
6th 2018 (Ott)

As a rebuilder, Holland has traded 1 pick out and 12 picks in. This has happened only in 2 years.

He has more than double-fixed the hole, after he got a different signal from Chris Ilitch for team-building.

And we know there's more to come. It will be fun to look that record afterwards.

Click to read more...

 

[Claypool]

You're reading too much into things. Mike Illitch's death just coincided with the downturn of the team. It's purely coincidental. I pretty sure he wasn't involved much the day-to-day after the 2013 season.

When you have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall, and you're good enough to make the playoffs, you keep trying to win. In 2012 the Red Wings went on a 23-game home winning streak. Pretty sure they were at the top of the league by the trade deadline. To not trade draft picks for roster players would be idiotic.

 

[Heaton]

Coincidentally, the core was old, retired and past their prime. Not like Holland had much of a choice.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Coincidentally, the core was old, retired and past their prime. Not like Holland had much of a choice.

Yeah that is far more likely.

 

[Ulysses31]

think its prolly a bit of both

 

[kliq]

I've always suspected this, obviously you can't prove it, but all signs point towards this. I'm not sure how much pull Illitch had near the end, but the guy was a winner through and through, and I dont think he accepted the "rebuild" mentality. On the positive side, that never give up attitude/do anything to win mentality is likely what made him so successful in life.

@Henkka On a side note, you flipped the Tom McCollum trade. We traded for him in 2017, not that it makes a difference in the grand scheme of things as we never actually gave up anything for him since he didnt play enough NHL games.

 

[Henkka]

@Henkka On a side note, you flipped the Tom McCollum trade. We traded for him in 2017, not that it makes a difference in the grand scheme of things as we never actually gave up anything for him since he didnt play enough NHL games.

I just didn't write that "conditions were never met".

There's no extra 7th on calculations.

Only 7th we ever got was from Brad Stuart trade back to California.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Coincidentally, the core was old, retired and past their prime. Not like Holland had much of a choice.

And he tried his absolute hardest to not rebuild for years.

 

[BinCookin]

Regardless of what the turning point was. (Coincidences seems likely)..

Holland has done a good job the last 2 years collecting draft picks.
Hope he keeps it up ... until Yzerman arrives

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Regardless of what the turning point was. (Coincidences seems likely)..

Holland has done a good job the last 2 years collecting draft picks.
Hope he keeps it up ... until Yzerman arrives

Yeah but he still making a lot of mistakes making those picks. I don't want him picking many more

 

[BinCookin]

Yeah but he still making a lot of mistakes making those picks. I don't want him picking many more

"Mistakes making the picks" is something we can blame ANY GM for doing. As there is never an "obvious" one.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah but he still making a lot of mistakes making those picks. I don't want him picking many more

If they are such obvious mistakes, please enlighten us?

Keep in mind that guys in the third round and later basically turn into a crapshoot to make the NHL.

You can like Vilardi or whoever over Rasmussen. Way too early to make the call that it’s a mistake

The two extra picks in prime draft location in the 18 draft (Veleno and Berggren) both look great. They looked at the time like they could be steals.

Most of the rest of the guys are super far off and again, are in draft spots where if you remotely play in the NHL, you’re a big success.

Hell prior to this “inflection point” we are talking about, Holland traded and got an extra pick in the Mantha draft (Bertuzzi), and the Cholowski draft (Hronek). All four of those guys look like LEGIT NHL players or in Hronek’s case that he will be very soon.

Even Svechnikov was actually looking like a good player who has just been bitten by the injury bug.

But yeah, he’s made obvious mistakes and we should force him to jump off the RenCen in penance.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

If they are such obvious mistakes, please enlighten us?

Keep in mind that guys in the third round and later basically turn into a crapshoot to make the NHL.

You can like Vilardi or whoever over Rasmussen. Way too early to make the call that it’s a mistake

The two extra picks in prime draft location in the 18 draft (Veleno and Berggren) both look great. They looked at the time like they could be steals.

Most of the rest of the guys are super far off and again, are in draft spots where if you remotely play in the NHL, you’re a big success.

Hell prior to this “inflection point” we are talking about, Holland traded and got an extra pick in the Mantha draft (Bertuzzi), and the Cholowski draft (Hronek). All four of those guys look like LEGIT NHL players or in Hronek’s case that he will be very soon.

Even Svechnikov was actually looking like a good player who has just been bitten by the injury bug.

But yeah, he’s made obvious mistakes and we should force him to jump off the RenCen in penance.

Is Svechnikov better than Boesner and Aho? Givani Smith > Carter Hart (we have no G depth) etc etc etc (i dont feel like even writing the 1000's of other examples )don't quote me just to argue man it's getting annoying now.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

"Mistakes making the picks" is something we can blame ANY GM for doing. As there is never an "obvious" one.

You want Holland picking "until Yzerman comes" why do you need Yzerman here if Holland is making good picks? Holland is in rebuild mode so he isn't trading picks and youth for old vets or handing out horrible contracts like he did a few years ago anymore. So why are you waiting for Yzerman because it's the popular thing to say? Or because I am right that Holland needs to go asap and you are just disagreeing with me cuz it's fun?

 

[Claypool]

Is Svechnikov better than Boesner and Aho? Givani Smith > Carter Hart (we have no G depth) etc etc etc (i dont feel like even writing the 1000's of other examples )don't quote me just to argue man it's getting annoying now.

No GM has a perfect drafting record. It's a complete waste of time to go back through drafts and say, "They should have drafted THIS guy instead!"

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

No GM has a perfect drafting record. It's a complete waste of time to go back through drafts and say, "They should have drafted THIS guy instead!"

Never said any GM has a perfect record. All the great euro picks we've had are because of Hakkan anyway. Name an all-star besides Larkin Holland drafted ? And Ras looks like a bust so far btw.( which was a local Michigan boy that fell on his lap because Nill is a moron btw)

 

[Frk It]

I think Holland and Ilitch shared a lot of the same values, which is why the streak ran as long as it did and they shared a lot of success together.

If we are implying that Holland was itching to rebuild but couldn’t because of Mr. I, sorry I don’t but that for literally a second.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I want Holland gone for:
1)Bad contracts
2)Mediocre trades (the recent ones have been better)
3)Mediocre draft picks
For historically doing these three things. It's time for someone like Yzerman ( knows how to manage the cap) to take over.

 

[Claypool]

Never said any GM has a perfect record. All the great euro picks we've had are because of Hakkan anyway. Name an all-star besides Larkin Holland drafted ? And Ras looks like a bust so far btw.( which was a local Michigan boy that fell on his lap because Nill is a moron btw)

No, this argument is tiring. "Ken Holland had the luckiest 30+ year career, every decision he made was luck, the people he hired made all the right decisions, any good decision he made was because someone else screwed up it, etc." I get it.

 

[Kyleftlx]

I love the path Holland has taken for the past couple seasons, and I do understand how handcuffed he was for half a decade due to the streak, aging vets, etc.

My biggest complaint about Holland for the entirety of the post lockout era, he has displayed zero evidence of creativity on the trade market. Every deal he makes is a pick for player deal. The team could have really used him in the 2009-2012 range especially making a ballsy move for a difference making defenseman.

Detroit has a lot of picks, and likely will get even more picks to utilize in the draft. There’s only a specific number of open spots on the organizational depth chart. I would be so much more confident in the rebuild effort if I felt as though the GM was utilizing every possible avenue to make the team better. Maybe this year or next year isn’t the time to make a blockbuster deal, but it has been so long since Holland was part of a blockbuster that it feels like he wouldn’t even know how to make one happen!

I trust Holland’s ability to stockpile talent through the draft these last couple years, and he is unafraid to work hard in free agency to bring guys in, but I’d really like a GM that is active on all fronts.

 

[PullHard]

Thanks for compiling all of that, Henkka

Holland has definitely done an admirable job of collecting picks since that point in time, I hope it continues this season

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I think Holland and Ilitch shared a lot of the same values, which is why the streak ran as long as it did and they shared a lot of success together.

If we are implying that Holland was itching to rebuild but couldn’t because of Mr. I, sorry I don’t but that for literally a second.

Neither do I. He started rebuilding because the streak ended. 15-16 is the last year they made it and that’s the time when they started holding onto picks and trying to get more.

 

[Frk It]

I love the path Holland has taken for the past couple seasons, and I do understand how handcuffed he was for half a decade due to the streak, aging vets, etc.

My biggest complaint about Holland for the entirety of the post lockout era, he has displayed zero evidence of creativity on the trade market. Every deal he makes is a pick for player deal. The team could have really used him in the 2009-2012 range especially making a ballsy move for a difference making defenseman.

Detroit has a lot of picks, and likely will get even more picks to utilize in the draft. There’s only a specific number of open spots on the organizational depth chart. I would be so much more confident in the rebuild effort if I felt as though the GM was utilizing every possible avenue to make the team better. Maybe this year or next year isn’t the time to make a blockbuster deal, but it has been so long since Holland was part of a blockbuster that it feels like he wouldn’t even know how to make one happen!

I trust Holland’s ability to stockpile talent through the draft these last couple years, and he is unafraid to work hard in free agency to bring guys in, but I’d really like a GM that is active on all fronts.

I almost feel like he has so much faith in his drafting ability, he doesn’t want to do player for player deals because he feels like he will get burned.

He only really trades players or moves on from them when it’s pretty clear what they are (Tatar, Smith, Sheahan, etc)

Kind of makes sense when you are the guy who drafted Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, etc... but it feels like that is a factor and he probably overvalues his players to a fault.

 

[Frk It]

I want Holland gone for:
1)Bad contracts
2)Mediocre trades (the recent ones have been better)
3)Mediocre draft picks
For historically doing these three things. It's time for someone like Yzerman ( knows how to manage the cap) to take over.

I think Yzerman would be an improvement at this point, but understand he has committed some of the same sins you list above and is not infallible himself.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I love the path Holland has taken for the past couple seasons, and I do understand how handcuffed he was for half a decade due to the streak, aging vets, etc.

My biggest complaint about Holland for the entirety of the post lockout era, he has displayed zero evidence of creativity on the trade market. Every deal he makes is a pick for player deal. The team could have really used him in the 2009-2012 range especially making a ballsy move for a difference making defenseman.

Detroit has a lot of picks, and likely will get even more picks to utilize in the draft. There’s only a specific number of open spots on the organizational depth chart. I would be so much more confident in the rebuild effort if I felt as though the GM was utilizing every possible avenue to make the team better. Maybe this year or next year isn’t the time to make a blockbuster deal, but it has been so long since Holland was part of a blockbuster that it feels like he wouldn’t even know how to make one happen!

I trust Holland’s ability to stockpile talent through the draft these last couple years, and he is unafraid to work hard in free agency to bring guys in, but I’d really like a GM that is active on all fronts.

I agree to a point, but you have to have someone play ball with you. For a long time the only players the Wings had with excess value of their contracts were guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, etc.

They had a bunch of okay players who were at best earning their contract and at worst were untradeable.

Maybe Nyquist + Tatar for Bouwmeester was a deal that could have been done but that seems like a trade you would have regretted in a year.