How many years has Sidney Crosby been the best player?

[USAUSA1]

People love to use numbers but if you ask players, former players, coaches and other experts, they would say Crosby and they have been saying Crosby. He is the last person they want to see in the playoffs. He is quietly having another great season.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Is he now? He has been outplayed by Crosby in three of their four Cups runs...

That is an odd claim to make seeing as how Malkin was 1 point behind and 1 point above Crosby for two of those three.

 

[Midnight Judges]

People love to use numbers but if you ask players, former players, coaches and other experts, they would say Crosby and they have been saying Crosby. He is the last person they want to see in the playoffs. He is quietly having another great season.

Indeed Crosby might even creep back into the top 20 players this year (as opposed to last season).

 

[Turin]

Indeed Crosby might even creep back into the top 20 players this year (as opposed to last season).

Everything you post is pure cringe.

 

[bobholly39]

In any other sport an injury riddled season and a missed playoffs would be considered a valley.

In hockey 37 points with a $9M cap hit is fancied a neutral event.

It's as if the guys who show up every night do so for nothing.

Semantics. We're just looking at 2 different things.

You're looking at who was more useful that year im looking at who was the better player at that point in time. Obviously 22 games isn't the most useful and no one claims it is.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Everything you post is pure cringe.

That's odd, I don't recall anyone getting outraged that Crosby was a non-consideration for the Hart last season. Nobody even tried to make a case.

Already history revision seems to be working for him:

2017-18 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Midnight Judges]

Semantics. We're just looking at 2 different things.

You're looking at who was more useful that year im looking at who was the better player at that point in time. Obviously 22 games isn't the most useful and no one claims it is.

It's not semantics.

You think a guy can be the best player from the press box for 75% of the season.

I think the best player has to play hockey and be the best player to be called the best player.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The entire purpose of being a better player is to be more valuable to your team.

This desire to extricate those two is nothing more than to provide flexibility for homerism (when it suits).

 

[bobholly39]

It's not semantics.

You think a guy can be the best player from the press box for 75% of the season.

I think the best player has to play hockey and be the best player to be called the best player.

Of course it's semantics, we're just looking at 2 different things.

Who is the best player in the world in 2018 according to you? I assume you'll say McDavid based on previous posts. Let's pretend you say McDavid even if you don't think so to make this analogy simple.

If he gets injured tomorrow morning and misses the rest of the year - isn't he still the best hockey player in the world? He won't have the best season obviously - but he doesn't "suck" because he gets injured. Maybe if MacKinnon scores 140 points by end of year you change your mind and decide he's the best - but assuming nothing crazy like that happens, McDavid remains the best.

But he won't have had the best season.

See? Semantics. We're looking at two different things.

 

[bobholly39]

The entire purpose of being a better player is to be more valuable to your team.

This desire to extricate those two is nothing more than to provide flexibility for homerism (when it suits).

You're just extremely insecure about it tbh.

I'm certainly not a Pitt homer (even though i'm a Crosby fan). I just love discussing who the best player is, which is why I get caught up in those types of threads.

It's posters like you who get so upset about this that's the problem. If you don't like these types of discussions don't participate.

If you only want to talk about which players had the best seasons at any given time specifically - then sure, start a topic about that. To me - this isn't what this thread is about though.

Crosby can pretty easily be argued to be the best player in the world (co-best some years) from 2007 to 2017.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Of course it's semantics, we're just looking at 2 different things.

Who is the best player in the world in 2018 according to you? I assume you'll say McDavid based on previous posts. Let's pretend you say McDavid even if you don't think so to make this analogy simple.

If he gets injured tomorrow morning and misses the rest of the year - isn't he still the best hockey player in the world? He won't have the best season obviously - but he doesn't "suck" because he gets injured. Maybe if MacKinnon scores 140 points by end of year you change your mind and decide he's the best - but assuming nothing crazy like that happens, McDavid remains the best.

But he won't have had the best season.

See? Semantics. We're looking at two different things.

In that scenario McDavid is not the best player anymore.

Staying healthy and being durable is a virtue in all professional sports. It is a necessary characteristic. If McDavid can't do that, then the title passes on.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby can pretty easily be argued to be the best player in the world (co-best some years) from 2007 to 2017.

There is absolutely no case for Crosby from 2008-2010.

A player cannot be outscored by 16 points and 21 goals per season for three seasons straight, while being bested in GPG, PPG, +/-, hits, etc. and still be the best or co-best.

You'll pretend it anyway though.

 

[GreatGonzo]

To the bolded - it really depends what is being asked for. I know I personally have a pretty loose definition of the term best player in the world - and i'm fine with a cpl of guys sharing the top where it makes sense. If you're asking specifically for who had the best season/play in each year - than yes, Crosby falls off a lot.

Crosby isn't Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux where he was leaps and bounds over the competition each year. In fact he's almost the exact opposite - where he does barely just enough to squeak by and manage to maintain the title of best player in the world (or co-best), each year. His consistency helps - as he's never fallen off enough in play. The years where he didn't have the clear best season - he was usually very, very close to it, and often his playoffs outdid the guy who outdid him in the season so it's a tradeoff.

To me using that definition and criteria - Sidney Crosby best in the world since 2007 probably until this past year. Depending on how his current season or playoffs pan out - he could add this year to his streak (season is still early, and he's one among many dark horse candidates for a Ross/Hart run, so you never know).

It’s not about being Gretzky or Lemieux, it’s more about consistency on that level. Crosby has consistently been an overall top 3 player through out a majority of his career. But a lot of those seasons falls under being 2nd or 3rd best. Some of those years he was clearly 2nd, he was injured a majority of his peak, yet since 2014, he hasn’t been THE best player in the world, but his new playoff success somehow pushed him back to tht status.

If anything, 2011, and 2013-2016 is more realistic considering how much back and forth went on between him, Malkin, and Ovechkin from 2006-2010, 2012. I don’t think many can honestly say Crosby was the best player in the world those first 7 years in general. 2007 was the only year.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Is he now? He has been outplayed by Crosby in three of their four Cups runs, in three of their SCFs, has a clearly higher PPG and two Smythes.

But if you are saying Malkin is the answer to the question, you are wrong.

What are you talking about? Malkin led the Pens in production 2/4 of those cup runs, including one of the best post seasons ever. He was one point behind Crosby in 2016(while injured). Crosby has never lead his team in production in any of their cup victories, the one he did was ‘08.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

It’s not about being Gretzky or Lemieux, it’s more about consistency on that level. Crosby has consistently been an overall top 3 player through out a majority of his career. But a lot of those seasons falls under being 2nd or 3rd best. Some of those years he was clearly 2nd, he was injured a majority of his peak, yet since 2014, he hasn’t been THE best player in the world, but his new playoff success somehow pushed him back to tht status.

If anything, 2011, and 2013-2016 is more realistic considering how much back and forth went on between him, Malkin, and Ovechkin from 2006-2010, 2012. I don’t think many can honestly say Crosby was the best player in the world those first 7 years in general. 2007 was the only year.

Crosby has more points than any player since 2014 in both the RS and the playoffs

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby has more points than any player since 2014 in both the RS and the playoffs

Which is why I stated that going from 2013 and on was more realistic.

 

[CapnZin]

Weird how all we see is “X player had more points than Y” like that justifies who is better.

Crosby has been the best player for a long long time now. It’s seems as if McDavid passes Crosby/or has already passed. It really depends who you ask.

The thing that amazes me about Crosby is his ability to make nobodies into somebodies. He turned Kunitz, Sheary, Vitale, and more into bonafide wingers with him. That’s honestly crazy. They’re not that good, but when they’re with him their play elevated. I haven’t seen a ton of EDM games so I don’t know if McDavid has that archetype. That’s just the thing that amazes me about Crosby the most.

 

[Randyne]

Kunitz, Sheary, Vitale, and more into bonafide wingers with him. That’s honestly crazy.

Vitale has only two points with Crosby. Is it really crazy achievement for you?

 

[Bonzo111]

i wanna know why its so hard to get him a winger

 

[Midnight Judges]

The thing that amazes me about Crosby is his ability to make nobodies into somebodies. He turned Kunitz, Sheary, Vitale, and more into bonafide wingers with him. That’s honestly crazy.

Huh?

Kunitz was a 60 point player before he ever put on a Pens jersey.

Who is Vitale?

 

[Bonesy9]

When I think about this, I think, how many times would I have picked him as my captain for one season.

I would have picked him every year, excluding his rookie year, up until this season.

I personally strive for winning, some people believe this is a team game. If you watch the penguins play, you know that Crosby can will his team to victory, to me, that is what made him the best.

McDavid is definitely more skilled, no question, and maybe some of these young guys are too. But Crosby still has that will to win and is the reason most people believe the Penguins will make the playoffs and be a tough out in the playoffs.

He is the best leader in my opinion and the best at adapting his game to fit the needs of his team.

It is impressive to watch him grow, even when he is being considered old by today's NHL.

 

[Bonesy9]

i wanna know why its so hard to get him a winger

The team only has so much money. They have always tried to use the 3 center model, this limits the ability to bring in elite wingers.

They added Kessel at a great price from the Leafs (working out for both organizations) and the team does better with him on Malkin's wing (until lately).

Why pay 6-10 mil for a winger for Crosby when you can have Letang, Malkin & Fleury for so many years. People have to remember that the cap was not this high at the start of the salary cap. Hornqvist has played with him a lot and I think is perfect for him. Speed and grit (until lately).

 

[Bonesy9]

Weird how all we see is “X player had more points than Y” like that justifies who is better.

It is a weird concept, more or less means that a defenseman or goalie can never be the best in the world.

 

[Fixxer]

Crosby is the kind of guy you think is starting to decline bad... but then he switches it up.
His motivation and hard work are ELITE!
How many years he was the best..hard to tell. Maybe 3-4 times.

 

[CapnZin]

Vitale has only two points with Crosby. Is it really crazy achievement for you?

It was a wonder how Vitale stayed in the NHL... its even scarier that he managed to find his way into the lineup and play with Crosby on the first line. It’s a crazy accomplishment that the coaches thought Crosby could turn him around lol.

Huh?

Kunitz was a 60 point player before he ever put on a Pens jersey.

Who is Vitale?

Kunitz had 1 60 point season previous to PIT. He’s not a 60 point player during that time you speak of. He got 60 points even 1 time and didn’t touch it again.

*Not calling you out or anything, but that seems to be a pet peeve of mine.*

During his time with ANH and ATL before going to PIT he averaged 32 points a year. That’s not really a 1st line mainstay.

After coming to PIT and playing with Crosby: he averaged 56 points a season which is close to 58% better playing with Crosby. At this time you can consider him a 60 point player since he averaged close to 60 points and eclipsed it more than once.


Joey Vitale is an AHL level player. Really bad at fighting and tenacity, but played with heart! His career was devistated with concussions. Not a player that should’ve played in the NHL.