How many years has Sidney Crosby been the best player?

[Empoleon8771]

There have been players clearly better than Crosby, including Ovi. Consistency is great, but don’t get it confused with overall dominance. Crosby has been in the running a majority of his career but still couldn’t be proclaimed as the best within the same time frame.

There have been 2 players that fit this, Ovechkin for 3 years and McDavid since 2016-2017. That's it. Neither of those guys have long track records of being clearly and consistently better than Crosby, in McDavid's case, it's just because he hasn't been in the NHL for long enough. I also think it's BS to say that Ovi was "clearly better" than Crosby. No, when Ovechkin was the best player in hockey, Crosby was #2 and the difference wasn't that big. The difference between Crosby and Ovechkin since 2010 is WAY bigger than the difference between the two from 2007-2010.

Here's what it comes down to for me. I'll just talk about from 2005-2006 to 2015-2016 (because McDavid is hurt by not being in the league long enough), if Crosby isn't the best player, who is? Ovechkin has multiple sub-PPG seasons and fell off a cliff after 2010, when Crosby maintained his high level until 2014. Malkin has been extremely inconsistent his entire career. Kane has like 2 seasons on par with what Crosby has been able to consistently do. If not Crosby, who is it? Since Crosby has entered the league, there has not been 1 player who has been better than him consistently, so he's the best. It doesn't matter if he's not being the best player for 8 years in a row, because he doesn't have to do that to be the best. He's the best until someone else has been collectively better than him, not just better for a season or 2.

 

[GreatGonzo]

There have been 2 players that fit this, Ovechkin for 3 years and McDavid since 2016-2017. That's it. Neither of those guys have long track records of being clearly and consistently better than Crosby, in McDavid's case, it's just because he hasn't been in the NHL for long enough. I also think it's BS to say that Ovi was "clearly better" than Crosby. No, when Ovechkin was the best player in hockey, Crosby was #2 and the difference wasn't that big. The difference between Crosby and Ovechkin since 2010 is WAY bigger than the difference between the two from 2007-2010.

Here's what it comes down to for me. I'll just talk about from 2005-2006 to 2015-2016 (because McDavid is hurt by not being in the league long enough), if Crosby isn't the best player, who is? Ovechkin has multiple sub-PPG seasons and fell off a cliff after 2010, when Crosby maintained his high level until 2014. Malkin has been extremely inconsistent his entire career. Kane has like 2 seasons on par with what Crosby has been able to consistently do. If not Crosby, who is it? Since Crosby has entered the league, there has not been 1 player who has been better than him consistently, so he's the best. It doesn't matter if he's not being the best player for 8 years in a row, because he doesn't have to do that to be the best. He's the best until someone else has been collectively better than him, not just better for a season or 2.

By “clearly”, I mean that Ovechkin was the number one player in the world for a 3 year span. As in Crosby wasn’t, but him being number 2 is fine....but that really doesn’t take away the fact that Ovechkin was still number one.

Like I’ve said before. Calling Crosby the overall best player since entering the league is fine by me. The only debate lies in the gap between him, Malkin, and Ovechkin. The gap between them is hardly worth noting. Crosby’s 2011 did leave a lot of unanswered questions.....but Ovechkin was just as dominant the previous year at the half way mark. The difference is never saw Crosby even out and play out the entire season.

Crosby’s consistency is the main reason why many consider him the best player. Malkins injuries and Ovechkins drop in play various times do affect how people view them. But that shouldn’t excuse that Ovechkin had a better peak, while Malkin has arguably the better single season peak while still maintaining a great PPG Average overall that is second to Crosby. He has also been just as amazing in the playoffs. I mean he has 2 scoring titles like Crosby with a Hart and Lindsay. Injuries most likely did cost him when we do these comparisons. And now that Ovechkin has had some playoff glory, the gap is now much smaller. The ONE thing people always bring up when comparing Crosby and Ovechkin is Ovechkins lack of playoff success. That is no longer an issue.

The question is, how many years was Crosby THE best player. Being one of the best isn’t the same as that question, because out of the last 13 years, he has only been considered the best 2-3 times. His overall body of work most likely makes him the best if your talking of this generation, but he still hasn’t been consistently THE best from season to season.

At their best, Malkin, Ovechkin, and Crosby are pretty much interchangeable. Crosbys consistency has been the main difference, but even then...I’ve always said, especially with Malkin....who IMO is just as, if not arguably better than Crosby when they are both healthy.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think a player who is on his way to his 14th consecutive 30 goal season is pretty consistent, but eh, what do I know?

 

[kmart]

Uh.....you're really going to bring up Stanley Cups in a Crosby vs Ovi discussion? Just want to be sure that's a route you want to go down. Like did you only become a hockey fan last season?

at least i was able to acknowledge him even with the massive support he got during that time as best because its hard to argue against 3 cups... at this point in time ovechkin bested crosby though and no cups from the past can dimish that achievement... so yeah u can post pics from past years and show that he was the best ( which i do not argue against ) however is he the best now ? big fat no. taking in account the last decade i have to say that no one dominated over long streches to be considered clear cut best... both had/have or going to have stretches of dominance which is a good thing i guess.

 

[Empoleon8771]

at least i was able to acknowledge him even with the massive support he got during that time as best because its hard to argue against 3 cups... at this point in time ovechkin bested crosby though and no cups from the past can dimish that achievement... so yeah u can post pics from past years and show that he was the best ( which i do not argue against ) however is he the best now ? big fat no. taking in account the last decade i have to say that no one dominated over long streches to be considered clear cut best... both had/have or going to have stretches of dominance which is a good thing i guess.

What kind of rambling are you going on about? I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.

Crosby vs Ovechkin hasn't been a legitimate debate since 2013. Ovechkin winning a cup last season doesn't mean the debate is magically back alive. I never said Crosby is the best player today, McDavid is the best now, but Ovechkin still isn't better than Crosby today. 1 cup doesn't magically change that.

 

[kmart]

i dont care if ao vs sid was a "debate" before 2013 or after. ovechkin is on his way to beat crosby in 2018 and 2019 i am sorry for u if u dont understand that he needs to update his resume... u need to prove that a cupless crosby (about even in regular season points vs ao) bested cup leading ovi... the amount of cognitive dissonance u must be on is astonishing. this is a year to year evaluation... if u have to count past achievements to prove that a player is better today u are doing it wrong.

 

[Randyne]

Primary points per season:

	Ovechkin	Crosby
2005-2006	88	83
2006-2007	78	85
2007-2008	101	57
2008-2009	88	84
2009-2010	88	87
2010-2011	62	52
2011-2012	52	24
2012-2013	45	43
2013-2014	68	70
2014-2015	74	59
2015-2016	56	64
2016-2017	53	72
2017-2018	69	62
2018-2019	32	29

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ovechkin 10 seasons out of 14. Crosby's best record 87 (like his number). Ovechkin's best 88, 88, 88 (Great 8) and 101. Last time a player scored more than 100 primary points in a season was Lemieux in 1995-96.

 

[Turin]

Primary points per season:

	Ovechkin	Crosby
2005-2006	88	83
2006-2007	78	85
2007-2008	101	57
2008-2009	88	84
2009-2010	88	87
2010-2011	62	52
2011-2012	52	24
2012-2013	45	43
2013-2014	68	70
2014-2015	74	59
2015-2016	56	64
2016-2017	53	72
2017-2018	69	62
2018-2019	32	29

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ovechkin 10 seasons out of 14. Crosby's best record 87 (like his number). Ovechkin's best 88, 88, 88 (Great 8) and 101. Last time a player scored more than 100 primary points in a season was Lemieux in 1995-96.

Given games played, this chart isn’t very flattering for your position.

 

[daver]

I think a player who is on his way to his 14th consecutive 30 goal season is pretty consistent, but eh, what do I know?

Consistent at what? Being a Top 3 player year in and year out?

 

[Randyne]

Given games played, this chart isn’t very flattering for your position.

For full seasons it's still Ovechkin (6 out of 10)

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

He has 2 Harts and 3 Lindsays, so 2 to 3. Though he has been in the conversation every year since the getgo and there are a couple years you can argue he was the best in spite of not winning MVP.

 

[bobholly39]

By “clearly”, I mean that Ovechkin was the number one player in the world for a 3 year span. As in Crosby wasn’t, but him being number 2 is fine....but that really doesn’t take away the fact that Ovechkin was still number one.

Like I’ve said before. Calling Crosby the overall best player since entering the league is fine by me. The only debate lies in the gap between him, Malkin, and Ovechkin. The gap between them is hardly worth noting. Crosby’s 2011 did leave a lot of unanswered questions.....but Ovechkin was just as dominant the previous year at the half way mark. The difference is never saw Crosby even out and play out the entire season.

Crosby’s consistency is the main reason why many consider him the best player. Malkins injuries and Ovechkins drop in play various times do affect how people view them. But that shouldn’t excuse that Ovechkin had a better peak, while Malkin has arguably the better single season peak while still maintaining a great PPG Average overall that is second to Crosby. He has also been just as amazing in the playoffs. I mean he has 2 scoring titles like Crosby with a Hart and Lindsay. Injuries most likely did cost him when we do these comparisons. And now that Ovechkin has had some playoff glory, the gap is now much smaller. The ONE thing people always bring up when comparing Crosby and Ovechkin is Ovechkins lack of playoff success. That is no longer an issue.

The question is, how many years was Crosby THE best player. Being one of the best isn’t the same as that question, because out of the last 13 years, he has only been considered the best 2-3 times. His overall body of work most likely makes him the best if your talking of this generation, but he still hasn’t been consistently THE best from season to season.

At their best, Malkin, Ovechkin, and Crosby are pretty much interchangeable. Crosbys consistency has been the main difference, but even then...I’ve always said, especially with Malkin....who IMO is just as, if not arguably better than Crosby when they are both healthy.

To the bolded - it really depends what is being asked for. I know I personally have a pretty loose definition of the term best player in the world - and i'm fine with a cpl of guys sharing the top where it makes sense. If you're asking specifically for who had the best season/play in each year - than yes, Crosby falls off a lot.

Crosby isn't Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux where he was leaps and bounds over the competition each year. In fact he's almost the exact opposite - where he does barely just enough to squeak by and manage to maintain the title of best player in the world (or co-best), each year. His consistency helps - as he's never fallen off enough in play. The years where he didn't have the clear best season - he was usually very, very close to it, and often his playoffs outdid the guy who outdid him in the season so it's a tradeoff.

To me using that definition and criteria - Sidney Crosby best in the world since 2007 probably until this past year. Depending on how his current season or playoffs pan out - he could add this year to his streak (season is still early, and he's one among many dark horse candidates for a Ross/Hart run, so you never know).

 

[bobholly39]

i dont care if ao vs sid was a "debate" before 2013 or after. ovechkin is on his way to beat crosby in 2018 and 2019 i am sorry for u if u dont understand that he needs to update his resume... u need to prove that a cupless crosby (about even in regular season points vs ao) bested cup leading ovi... the amount of cognitive dissonance u must be on is astonishing. this is a year to year evaluation... if u have to count past achievements to prove that a player is better today u are doing it wrong.

No doubt Ovi gets the edge for last year. I think Crosby held a lot of energy back for the playoffs and was on his way to have one of his best playoff performances ever - but obviously it didn't pay off as his team lost. I don't know that i'd say that in terms of "ability" Crosby was behind Ovechkin (or anyone) last year - but definitely Ovi gets the edge based on results.

The jury is still very much out on this season though. I expect Sidney to burn villages and stuff before season/playoffs are over, so we'll see.

And Crosby in that whole comparison is extremely boring. He's not changed much. 2015, 16, 17, 18, 19....very consistent, a bit high a bit low, etc.

The real story here is Ovechkin's resurgence. Which is great for him and for the sport. Although he's been winning rockets pretty steadily - , 2016 wasn't a good season for him, and 2017 was even worst. He really came back and played very strong last year (not just playoffs - regular season too). And is well on his way to the same this year.

Ovechkin = Peaks and Valleys. His peaks can rival anyone in the league - but his valleys happen too. Crosby hasn't really had any valleys since the start of his career.

 

[daver]

For full seasons it's still Ovechkin (6 out of 10)

If you are trying to convince us that OV is the better goalscorer, congrats!

If you are trying convince us that OV is the better overall player offensively, try again. Or don't try at all.

There are a handful of players in NHL history who have lead both the regular season and the playoffs in points, or goals or assists.

Guess who is one of them.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Lol at the people saying Crosby was the game’s best player in consecutive years where Ovechkin beat him in both Hart AND Pearson voting.

Mario being a Hart runner-up in a year he played in only 43 games proves you can still be the best player in the league for half a season, and get the ackowledgment from the PHWA.

To answer the OP’s question:

2007
2013
2014
2016

 

[Randyne]

Guess who is one of them.

Malkin the greatest playoff performer since 1993.

 

[ottawa]

How many years was Einstein the smartest man? I'd assume all of them. Are we to suppose he had years he wasn't smart????

Can you explain why you believe the human mind and the physical body are comparable in this situation?

 

[daver]

Malkin the greatest playoff performer since 1993.

Is he now? He has been outplayed by Crosby in three of their four Cups runs, in three of their SCFs, has a clearly higher PPG and two Smythes.

But if you are saying Malkin is the answer to the question, you are wrong.

 

[daver]

Can you explain why you believe the human mind and the physical body are comparable in this situation?

Einstein would understand the comparison.

 

[Randyne]

Is he now? He has been outplayed by Crosby in three of their four Cups runs, in three of their SCFs, has a clearly higher PPG and two Smythes.

But if you are saying Malkin is the answer to the question, you are wrong.

Yes Malkin is the answer to your question. Corsby never had 'art ross' both in RS and PO.

 

[daver]

Yes Malkin is the answer to your question. Corsby never had 'art ross' both in RS and PO.

I meant over the course of his career Crosby has won six of those scoring titles,; most goals, most assists, most points, not necessarily in the same season.

It shows how much more of an all offensive threat Crosby is and why eliminating 2nd assists makes no sense when OV has had the opportunity to accumulate them as Crosby.

 

[Randyne]

I meant over the course of his career Crosby has won six of those scoring titles,; most goals, most assists, most points, not necessarily in the same season.

He never lead playoff in points, tied once but scoring less goals (first tie-breaker for regular season).
upd playing more games

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Consistent at what? Being a Top 3 player year in and year out?

I'd say more consistent to stay healthy and on the ice unlike a certain other top 3 player since 2005-2006.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin = Peaks and Valleys. His peaks can rival anyone in the league - but his valleys happen too. Crosby hasn't really had any valleys since the start of his career.

In any other sport an injury riddled season and a missed playoffs would be considered a valley.

In hockey 37 points with a $9M cap hit is fancied a neutral event.

It's as if the guys who show up every night do so for nothing.

 

[daver]

I'd say more consistent to stay healthy and on the ice unlike a certain other top 3 player since 2005-2006.

The reference was specifically to level of play when on the ice. Until last season, Crosby has been Top 3 in points and/or PPG since his rookie season.

OV has multiple seasons of being outside the Top 3 -5 players in any given season.