How many points

[HoweFan]

I was worried we were about to set a record for least points in a season. Apparently the 2007-08 Washington Capitols had 21 points. We cruised by that marker a month ago lol how many points do you think we will end up with? My guess is 38. I don’t see us getting any better with Martha gone

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[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I was worried we were about to set a record for least points in a season. Apparently the 2007-08 Washington Capitols had 21 points. We cruised by that marker a month ago lol how many points do you think we will end up with? My guess is 38. I don’t see us getting any better with Martha gone

The '08 Capitals had 43 Wins and 94 points. Maybe you were thinking of '07?

The Caps only had 28 wins that year but still managed 70 points.

The Wings this year will very likely end up historically bad.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'd be shocked if we eclipsed 50 points. My guess is somewhere around 45 or so. The wildcard is Bernier, who could steal us some loser points. Howard is good for 4+ goals against per game and we don't have the offense to win with Howard in net.

 

[nhlisawesome]

I'd be shocked if we eclipsed 50 points. My guess is somewhere around 45 or so. The wildcard is Bernier, who could steal us some loser points. Howard is good for 4+ goals against per game and we don't have the offense to win with Howard in net.

Jimmy Howard is so terrible it isn't even funny.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Jimmy Howard is so terrible it isn't even funny.

Its a little funny

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jimmy Howard is so terrible it isn't even funny.

The Wings defense is so terrible. Howard is bad, but as evidenced by the last week plus, he's not completely worthless. Guys like Biega and Bowey and Lashoff tho?

 

[lilidk]

From bad to ok
Coaches
Defense
Goaltenders
Forwards
Prospects

 

[Retire91]

In all honesty it doesn't matter to me. The marker for me is playoffs or not and if you are not making the playoffs then the best odds at the highest pick is the best outcome. And if your team is getting worse every year and you have no chance for the cup you shouldn't gun for the playoffs. Pretty much my two philosophies in a nutshell. All this sensationalism about wings worst team ever means nothing to me, we knew we were going to be bad, how bad doesn't matter. What matters is what we do from here with the opportunity.

 

[redwings8831]

The '08 Capitals had 43 Wins and 94 points. Maybe you were thinking of '07?

The Caps only had 28 wins that year but still managed 70 points.

The Wings this year will very likely end up historically bad.

They went 8-67-5 with a -265 goal difference in 1974-75 as an expansion team. They had a nice improvement in year 2, finishing with 32 points.

 

[MBH]

The Wings defense is so terrible. Howard is bad, but as evidenced by the last week plus, he's not completely worthless. Guys like Biega and Bowey and Lashoff tho?

LOL.
In what might be his best week of the year Howard goes;
0-4 .908 3.54.

Howard is completely worthless, like Biega and Lashoff.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

LOL.
In what might be his best week of the year Howard goes;
0-4 .908 3.54.

Howard is completely worthless, like Biega and Lashoff.

Did you actually watch those games or are you going to just drop a stat and leave. I have a pretty strong inkling as to which you're doing.
Howard was great in those games. He was giving up goals on ridiculously dangerous chances. Colorado was just ****ing all over Detroit. Can't speak to Minnesota, but in this stretch that you're belittling him for, Howard was absolutely a huge plus player.

What I'm saying is that if the Wings had even an average defense, Howard wouldn't be 2-20. He's still bad to be sure, but the Wings are giving up grade A scoring chances by the bundle. The problem with this team is NOT the goaltending. Or at least it's not the majority problem. The Wings this year have had so many, in the games I watch, goals where Howard or Bernier are set up where the puck will go and the defender reaches out a hand or stick and deflects it. Or inadvertently screens them. Or it takes a wonky bounce off a skate.

There have been far too many consistencies in the broadcast of "that's how it goes when you're not going right". That's what most of their 7-2 losses are. They get down 3-0 and that turns into 7 because the whole team shuts down and that's when weird bounce goals happen.

I know it's the popular thing to just jump on them sucking, but you could put ANY goalie on this Red Wings team and they'd suck. Like really bad. The difference last year was DDK was around more, Kronwall was around, and you just had some veterans that played with structure. Even guys like Ericsson and Jensen who were no great shakes were at least in good places some of the time and not acting as glorified turnstiles that pass pucks to the other team.

I am all on board for a goalie like Askarov if he's a superstud... but just getting a better goalie is going to do damn near nothing on this current roster.

 

[jkutswings]

I don’t see us getting any better with Martha gone.

I'm not sure how much she could help, but if she can throw on some skates and play either defense or goaltender when she returns, it's worth a try.

 

[kliq]

I'm not sure how much she could help, but if she can throw on some skates and play either defense or goaltender when she returns, it's worth a try.

She's close with Snoop, I'd pay to see a Martha-Larkin-Snoop line.

 

[MBH]

Did you actually watch those games or are you going to just drop a stat and leave. I have a pretty strong inkling as to which you're doing.
Howard was great in those games. He was giving up goals on ridiculously dangerous chances. Colorado was just ****ing all over Detroit. Can't speak to Minnesota, but in this stretch that you're belittling him for, Howard was absolutely a huge plus player.

What I'm saying is that if the Wings had even an average defense, Howard wouldn't be 2-20. He's still bad to be sure, but the Wings are giving up grade A scoring chances by the bundle. The problem with this team is NOT the goaltending. Or at least it's not the majority problem. The Wings this year have had so many, in the games I watch, goals where Howard or Bernier are set up where the puck will go and the defender reaches out a hand or stick and deflects it. Or inadvertently screens them. Or it takes a wonky bounce off a skate.

There have been far too many consistencies in the broadcast of "that's how it goes when you're not going right". That's what most of their 7-2 losses are. They get down 3-0 and that turns into 7 because the whole team shuts down and that's when weird bounce goals happen.

I know it's the popular thing to just jump on them sucking, but you could put ANY goalie on this Red Wings team and they'd suck. Like really bad. The difference last year was DDK was around more, Kronwall was around, and you just had some veterans that played with structure. Even guys like Ericsson and Jensen who were no great shakes were at least in good places some of the time and not acting as glorified turnstiles that pass pucks to the other team.

I am all on board for a goalie like Askarov if he's a superstud... but just getting a better goalie is going to do damn near nothing on this current roster.

My goodness, that's a lot of words to flat out ignore facts.
How is that Bernier's stats have improved while Howard's have fallen off the map?

How many games did Howard singlehandledly kill himself with 2-3 weak to soft goals?

Face it. Howard went from being mediocre to absolute trash.

Defending his performance this year? Save your breath. It's been 30 years since the Red Wings had a goalie this bad start this many games.

 

[Borlag]

Again, it's also been 30 years since the Red Wings have had a defense this bad...

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

The Wings defense is so terrible. Howard is bad, but as evidenced by the last week plus, he's not completely worthless. Guys like Biega and Bowey and Lashoff tho?

I trust Biega and Lashoff more than anyone else but maybe Nemeth in their own end. Even more than Hronik defensively.

 

[Red Stanley]

Did you actually watch those games or are you going to just drop a stat and leave. I have a pretty strong inkling as to which you're doing.
Howard was great in those games. He was giving up goals on ridiculously dangerous chances. Colorado was just ****ing all over Detroit. Can't speak to Minnesota, but in this stretch that you're belittling him for, Howard was absolutely a huge plus player.

What I'm saying is that if the Wings had even an average defense, Howard wouldn't be 2-20. He's still bad to be sure, but the Wings are giving up grade A scoring chances by the bundle. The problem with this team is NOT the goaltending. Or at least it's not the majority problem. The Wings this year have had so many, in the games I watch, goals where Howard or Bernier are set up where the puck will go and the defender reaches out a hand or stick and deflects it. Or inadvertently screens them. Or it takes a wonky bounce off a skate.

There have been far too many consistencies in the broadcast of "that's how it goes when you're not going right". That's what most of their 7-2 losses are. They get down 3-0 and that turns into 7 because the whole team shuts down and that's when weird bounce goals happen.

I know it's the popular thing to just jump on them sucking, but you could put ANY goalie on this Red Wings team and they'd suck. Like really bad. The difference last year was DDK was around more, Kronwall was around, and you just had some veterans that played with structure. Even guys like Ericsson and Jensen who were no great shakes were at least in good places some of the time and not acting as glorified turnstiles that pass pucks to the other team.

I am all on board for a goalie like Askarov if he's a superstud... but just getting a better goalie is going to do damn near nothing on this current roster.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

It makes a statement and honesty if that’s the embarrassment is what the franchise needs for ownership to wake up then, good

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Did you actually watch those games or are you going to just drop a stat and leave. I have a pretty strong inkling as to which you're doing.
Howard was great in those games. He was giving up goals on ridiculously dangerous chances. Colorado was just ****ing all over Detroit. Can't speak to Minnesota, but in this stretch that you're belittling him for, Howard was absolutely a huge plus player.

What I'm saying is that if the Wings had even an average defense, Howard wouldn't be 2-20. He's still bad to be sure, but the Wings are giving up grade A scoring chances by the bundle. The problem with this team is NOT the goaltending. Or at least it's not the majority problem. The Wings this year have had so many, in the games I watch, goals where Howard or Bernier are set up where the puck will go and the defender reaches out a hand or stick and deflects it. Or inadvertently screens them. Or it takes a wonky bounce off a skate.

There have been far too many consistencies in the broadcast of "that's how it goes when you're not going right". That's what most of their 7-2 losses are. They get down 3-0 and that turns into 7 because the whole team shuts down and that's when weird bounce goals happen.

I know it's the popular thing to just jump on them sucking, but you could put ANY goalie on this Red Wings team and they'd suck. Like really bad. The difference last year was DDK was around more, Kronwall was around, and you just had some veterans that played with structure. Even guys like Ericsson and Jensen who were no great shakes were at least in good places some of the time and not acting as glorified turnstiles that pass pucks to the other team.

I am all on board for a goalie like Askarov if he's a superstud... but just getting a better goalie is going to do damn near nothing on this current roster.

Cant argue with this

Howard is and still would be bad but his sats this year are a product of the lineup in front of him and the defense that leaves our goaltending on their own

Not to mention the fact that we have nobody scoring goals on a regular basis to even it out

 

[kliq]

It makes a statement and honesty if that’s the embarrassment is what the franchise needs for ownership to wake up then, good

What is it you want ownership to wake up and do? Fire Yzerman? Start being more hands on? The old regime is out, other then firing Yzerman I'm not sure what else you could mean by this.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

What is it you want ownership to wake up and do? Fire Yzerman? Start being more hands on? The old regime is out, other then firing Yzerman I'm not sure what else you could mean by this.

Yes, it’s a start, but should that be the end of it? No.

I really don’t get what’s so confusing...

 

[kliq]

Yes, it’s a start, but should that be the end of it? No.

I really don’t get what’s so confusing...

Never said I was confused, I was asking for clarification as I didnt want to assume what you meant and put words in your mouth. I'm sorry you didnt get that.

 

[jkutswings]

Yes, it’s a start, but should that be the end of it? No.

I really don’t get what’s so confusing...

So within one year of a regime change, hiring a widely-regarded top-five GM, and at the very start of finally turning over the roster in a long rebuild...

You want to blow up the front office?

To what end?

And what on Earth did you EXPECT was going to happen with no talent? Detroit would show pictures of puppies and rainbows on the Jumbo Tron at each game, and with a can-do attitude and a pocket full of dreams, they'd WISH their way to a spectacular season?

C'mon now. 80 percent of this roster belongs in either retirement or the AHL. Buckle up; this is exactly how a rebuild looks when it hits bottom before the overhaul begins.

If it's still a disaster in another 1-2 years, then ok, let's have that discussion. But now? No way.

 

[The Zermanator]

Re: Defence vs. goaltending:

It's kind of a chicken vs. egg argument ultimately. Howard's stats wouldn't be as bad if the D were better, but the D also wouldn't allow as many goals if the goalies were better. Not every goal allowed has been a grade A chance, plenty of examples of stinkers that shouldn't have been goals to choose from this season. But MBH brings up a very good point with Bernier. In more GP, Bernier has managed to keep his GAA below 3.00 and his Sv% above .900. Howard is well below .900 and over 4.00 GA/P average. Both playing behind the same defence.