How many points would a prime Paul Kariya put up in todays NHL?

How many points would a prime Paul Kariya put up in todays NHL?


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Makaveli

Killuminati
Jan 15, 2008
4,625
1,894
Toronto
He was my favourite player growing up, it's a shame his career was slowed down by injuries. How many points do you think he would put up in todays NHL if he was in his prime? I feel like his skill set would be perfect for how the game is played now.
 
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Video Nasty

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
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With health, the sky's the limit.

He did just fine post-lockout as a shell of his former self at age 31 and 32 with 85 and 76 points while not missing a game in either season.

He didn't miss a game during his age 33 season either and managed 65 points on a St. Louis team that was 27th in scoring with 205 goals.

He had 99 points in 69 games in 1996-1997 that was a similar scoring environment to today.

I think he would routinely score 110+ today and possibly flirt with 130 like Kucherov did. Minus concussions, injuries, and holding out after his third season which might have been what altered his career potential to begin with.
 
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The Abusement Park

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Jan 18, 2016
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I think he’d be comparable to someone like Drai. Consistently around the 90-110 point range and couple peak around 120+.
 

BKarchitect

Registered User
Oct 12, 2017
7,019
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Kansas City, MO
With good health? Drai/Kucherov numbers. But even more dynamic. That skating...the combination of explosive acceleration and precision agility with while maintaining the puck at unbelievable speed was out of this world. I just remember him destroying everybody year after year the ASG in puck control relays. And of course the full arsenal of offensive skills, unbelievable hockey sense...he was about as close to Gretzky in skill set as your gonna find. Please don’t take that out of context of course he wasn’t Gretzky but the skill+skating was insane.
 
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SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
8,489
6,402
He would definitely benefit from today's rules. Plenty more goals per game in today's game. And he already cracked 100pts twice in an era where it was tougher to score in. Especially for a guy his size and skill set. Pretty lethal combination of speed and shooting ability. Also an example of what would happen to a lot of today's danglers if they played back then. It was not a good idea to skate the puck up like that.

Kariya could be the best player today, but he didn't crack top 10 in his own era because you needed a little more grit, strength and size back then.
 

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
9,408
4,357
Kariya in his prime scored 108 points on a team where the 2nd leading scorer had 44 points.

Remove the clutching, grabbing and red-line offside ... I don't see any reason why he couldn't score 100 points today.
Well a big factor is defenseman could keep up with him today
 

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,271
4,639
Sweden
Well a big factor is defenseman could keep up with him today

I've always feared the day when I would be discussing 90's or 2000's hockey with a new generation of hockey fans, who were too young (or perhaps not even born) to remember those times. Not saying that's nessecarely the case here, but seeing your sign up date makes we wonder if the day has finally come.

I mean, just how much faster do you think defenseman have gotten in ten years? Because ten years ago Teemu Selanne, at the age of 40, was still flying. Thus I'm pretty confident a 25 year old Teemu would would be flying in today's league, and so would a 25 year old Kariya.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
24,540
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Vancouver
I've always feared the day when I would be discussing 90's or 2000's hockey with a new generation of hockey fans, who were too young (or perhaps not even born) to remember those times. Not saying that's nessecarely the case here, but seeing your sign up date makes we wonder if the day has finally come.

I mean, just how much faster do you think defenseman have gotten in ten years? Because ten years ago Teemu Selanne, at the age of 40, was still flying. Thus I'm pretty confident a 25 year old Teemu would would be flying in today's league, and so would a 25 year old Kariya.

I don't think the comment was about the evolution of player abilities but the style of the game. There were fast players then just as there is now. But when you talk about hooking, holding and grabbing, that was largely from the huge, slow stay at home defensemen who were more prominent in the game back then. Today, there's less of that stuff, as well as the less physicality, and that would benefit a smaller, fast player like Kariya. But Kariya also had the benefit of burning those slow defensemen with his speed regularly. Today, we see more defensemen whose strength is in their skating rather than size and physicality who could better keep up with Kariya's skating. So some of the advantages he would have in today's style of game are also somewhat offset by that same style.
 
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SotasicA

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Aug 25, 2014
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Well a big factor is defenseman could keep up with him today
It would really help him if he got to play against today's defensemen instead of the bad boys patrolling the blue lines back then.

Ask any forward if they'd rather play against a Roman Josi or a Bryan Marchment.
 
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Elvs

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Jul 3, 2006
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I don't think the comment was about the evolution of player abilities but the style of the game. There were fast players then just as there is now. But when you talk about hooking, holding and grabbing, that was largely from the huge, slow stay at home defensemen who were more prominent in the game back then. Today, there's less of that stuff, as well as the less physicality, and that would benefit a smaller, fast player like Kariya. But Kariya also had the benefit of burning those slow defensemen with his speed regularly. Today, we see more defensemen whose strength is in their skating rather than size and physicality who could better keep up with Kariya's skating. So some of the advantages he would have in today's style of game are also somewhat offset by that same style.

Yet we see more small and skilled forwards flourish in the NHL now than ever. I get the point you're trying to make about the average skater being faster (and certainly more mobile), but I've never in my life before seen anyone make the argument that small and skilled players somehow had an easier time back in the day.
 

stopclickbait

Registered User
Aug 28, 2018
750
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How many games would Suter get for doing what he did to Kariya to a Mcdavid or Kane in a league today.

Pre Suter cheapshot Kariya would put up 100+ points easy in my mind and it would be fun to watch.
 

BlueMed

Registered User
Jul 18, 2019
2,804
3,328
Kariya in his prime scored 108 points on a team where the 2nd leading scorer had 44 points.

Remove the clutching, grabbing and red-line offside ... I don't see any reason why he couldn't score 100 points today.

The NHL today is also much faster. Point totals tend to deflate over time and not inflate.
 

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,271
4,639
Sweden
The NHL today is also much faster. Point totals tend to deflate over time and not inflate.

Is it much faster than 2005-2007? Because Kariya was still a PPG player then, while being way past his prime and playing on a Nashville team with no other offensive stars (except an injury prone Steve Sullivan, if you could call him a star).

Or is it much faster than 10/11 when Martin St. Louis scored 99 points at the age of 35 (and pushing 36 towards the end)?
 

Video Nasty

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
4,544
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Is it much faster than 2005-2007? Because Kariya was still a PPG player then, while being way past his prime and playing on a Nashville team with no other offensive stars (except an injury prone Steve Sullivan, if you could call him a star).

Or is it much faster than 10/11 when Martin St. Louis scored 99 points at the age of 35 (and pushing 36 towards the end)?

I don't think I've ever seen the opposition to this idea reply to a post like this. They simply go quiet and disappear.

Any time people bring up good examples like you did or any of the other examples that I'm going to list, they have nothing to say.

Jagr getting 67 points in 82 games at age 41 in 2013-2014 and 66 points in 79 games at age 43 in 2015-2016 (interesting fact: he got enough Hart votes to finish 7th)

Sakic putting up 100 points at age 37 in 2006-2007 which was good enough for 6th in the Art Ross when Crosby won it with 120 points in his sophomore season at age 19.

Thornton, Marleau, and Chara who all made their debuts in the 1997-1998 season are still good enough to earn roster spots to this day. You can argue their overall effectiveness, but Thornton was able to finish tied for 4th in the scoring race at age 36 in 2015-2016.

Gretzky retired after those three's sophomore seasons. Think about that folks. It's really not a long time.

Mario's comeback in 2000-2001 at age 35 where he ripped the league apart as if he never left with 76 points in 43 games and kicked Jagr in the butt to win his 4th consecutive Art Ross. His lesser talked 2002-2003 season at age 37 where he had 68 points in his first 40 games and led the league in scoring by 15-25 points over the final top 3 scorers, but fell back to 9th place after injuries and being on a shell of a team had its effects. These seasons were 3-5 seasons before Crosby and Ovechkin showed up on the scene. He eventually retired again after a scattered third of a season playing with rookie Crosby at age 40.

What about Crosby himself? Made his debut in 2005-2006 (just 6.5 years after Gretzky played his last game). 14 years later in 2018-2019, he still managed to put up 100 points, finish 5th in scoring at age 31. If he retires in 5 years, are we going to be listening to naysayers 10 years from now say that he couldn't hack it in the oh-so-advanced NHL of 2030-2031?

Iginla could still pot 30 goals 17 and 18 seasons deep into his career at age 36 and 37 (2013-2014 and 2014-2015) and he made his debut in 1996-1997.

Just because games were not broadcast in HD until the mid-late 2000s doesn't mean hockey players evolved in physique and agility 1000x overnight.

Makes me wonder if people who watch a movie in black and white think that the world wasn't in color back then.

We're just not talking about a lot of time here. It's foolishness to act like any of the noteworthy stars and superstars wouldn't get it done across any era.
 
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Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,271
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Sweden
I don't think I've ever seen the opposition to this idea reply to a post like this. They simply go quiet and disappear.

Any time people bring up good examples like you did or any of the other examples that I'm going to list, they have nothing to say.

Jagr getting 67 points in 82 games at age 41 in 2013-2014 and 66 points in 79 games at age 43 in 2015-2016 (interesting fact: he got enough Hart votes to finish 7th)

Sakic putting up 100 points at age 37 in 2006-2007 which was good enough for 6th in the Art Ross when Crosby won it with 120 points in his sophomore season at age 19.

Thornton, Marleau, and Chara who all made their debuts in the 1997-1998 season are still good enough to earn roster spots to this day. You can argue their overall effectiveness, but Thornton was able to finish tied for 4th in the scoring race at age 36 in 2015-2016.

Gretzky retired after those three's sophomore seasons. Think about that folks. It's really not a long time.

Mario's comeback in 2000-2001 at age 35 where he ripped the league apart as if he never left with 76 points in 43 games and kicked Jagr in the butt to win his 4th consecutive Art Ross. His lesser talked 2002-2003 season at age 37 where he had 68 points in his first 40 games and led the league in scoring by 15-25 points over the final top 3 scorers, but fell back to 9th place after injuries and being on a shell of a team had its effects. These seasons were 3-5 seasons before Crosby and Ovechkin showed up on the scene. He eventually retired again after a scattered third of a season playing with rookie Crosby at age 40.

What about Crosby himself? Made his debut in 2005-2006 (just 6.5 years after Gretzky played his last game). 14 years later in 2018-2019, he still managed to put up 100 points, finish 5th in scoring at age 31. If he retires in 5 years, are we going to be listening to naysayers 10 years from now say that he couldn't hack it in the oh-so-advanced NHL of 2030-2031?

Iginla could still pot 30 goals 17 and 18 seasons deep into his career at age 36 and 37 (2013-2014 and 2014-2015) and he made his debut in 1996-1997.

Just because games were not broadcast in HD until the mid-late 2000s doesn't mean hockey players evolved in physique and agility 1000x overnight.

Makes me wonder if people who watch a movie in black and white think that the world wasn't in color back then.

We're just not talking about a lot of time here. It's foolishness to act like any of the noteworthy stars and superstars wouldn't get it done across any era.

Or Mark Giordano. If a defenseman, who only scored over 50 points once in his career, can score at nearly a PPG and win the Norris Trophy at 35, no one's gonna convince me that a prime Paul Kariya couldn't score 100 points today.
 
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Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
31,162
13,178
He would average in the high 90s/early 100s assuming he’s healthy. Similar production to Kane.
 

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