How many cups do the Johnny-Matty era Leafs win?

How many cups do the Johnny/Matty era Leafs win?

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X66

114-110
Aug 18, 2008
13,549
7,413
I think more then bad goaltending it was a terrible defensive system. Everybody looked like a chicken with their head cut off in the defensive zone so it's hard blaming the goalies only. Hopefully Tortz can shore that part of the system up and what they lose in risky high end offensive plays, they will make up in time spent in the offensive zone

It's exactly this, the Islanders goaltending didn't help, but watching the team system you knew the problems were deeper than just goaltending.

They were a bad team overall. Elite offensively, no doubt, but that came at a price.
 

boredmale

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Jul 13, 2005
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It's exactly this, the Islanders goaltending didn't help, but watching the team system you knew the problems were deeper than just goaltending.

They were a bad team overall. Elite offensively, no doubt, but that came at a price.

Halak or Greiss are my picks for comeback player of the year for 208/19. lol

As for the Islanders I think they could have come up with a better defensive system without sacrificing any of their offensive system by just being more organized in the defensive zone. Now that wouldn't have made the Islander a top defensive team but it would have cut down alot of goals. Like I said it was like nobody knew where to play and got caught out of position and once one goes down the other 4 are running around like chickens with their head cut off. I don't blame any 1 player specifically, that is all on the coach
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
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You just watched Draft +2 year McAvoy play well for the Bruins and you think it’s unrealistic to expect a defenseman to be ready by draft +3?
Mcavoy was a stud. He is the exception that I was referring to. The leafs don't have defenders who will become key top4 in their draft plus 1,2 or 3 season like mcavoy is now.
 
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Riseonfire

Josh Bailey! GAME ONE, TO THE ISLAND!!!
Nov 8, 2009
11,303
5,281
The ultimate Jinx thread, nice.

I look forward to seeing Toronto become a Washington/SJ 2.0 and flaming out season after season while the pressure mounts.
 
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dukeofjive

Registered User
Jul 7, 2013
5,564
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whistler b.c
This thread is full of funny people, the stanley cup is one of the hardest throphies in the world of sporst to win.

Id love to see toronto win the cup so there millions of fans can rejoice after such a long drought. But please take a deep breath and relax with the haters comments, this is not a 4 chan page.
 

GeeoffBrown

Registered User
Jul 6, 2007
6,052
3,992
The Leafs are a fun team to watch but threads like this really make it hard to root for them.

The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win in sports. You can't just start counting "how many"
 
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The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,846
10,014
Toronto
None with that defense.

Rielly is really good.
Gardiner is okay but can elevate his play at times.
Zaitsev is meh
Hainsey can have stretched but he wears out.
The rest is meh.

Rielly will get even better
Zaitsev can get better.
Gardiner is gone after his contract I think.

Sandin and Liljegren look promising but are at least 2 to 3 years away.

I don't know who else is in the pipe.

My guess is they have to bring in someone from the outside via trade or FA but how much space are they going to have once everyone is paid?

They probably have the top center depth in the league though. I think they will be a beast in the regular season but things tighten up quick in the playoffs and you need to have guys that can shut the door.

Good post. I think some people are sleeping on Dermott though. Rielly, Dermott and hopefully Zaitsev rebounds, will be 3 of the top 4 long term.
 
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The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
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None with that defense.

Rielly is really good.
Gardiner is okay but can elevate his play at times.
Zaitsev is meh
Hainsey can have stretched but he wears out.
The rest is meh.

Rielly will get even better
Zaitsev can get better.
Gardiner is gone after his contract I think.

Sandin and Liljegren look promising but are at least 2 to 3 years away.

I don't know who else is in the pipe.

My guess is they have to bring in someone from the outside via trade or FA but how much space are they going to have once everyone is paid?

They probably have the top center depth in the league though. I think they will be a beast in the regular season but things tighten up quick in the playoffs and you need to have guys that can shut the door.
They also have a very soft group of players. When you look at the make up of the teams that did well in the playoffs(the final 4) yes they all had skill, but they all had sandpaper also. They are not built to win 4 rds in the playoffs. So yes I agree zero cups with their present line up of lack of D and being much softer team compared to the final 4 teams that made as far as they did last year.
 
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X66

114-110
Aug 18, 2008
13,549
7,413
They also have a very soft group of players. When you look at the make up of the teams that did well in the playoffs(the final 4) yes they all had skill, but they all had sandpaper also. They are not built to win 4 rds in the playoffs. So yes I agree zero cups with their present line up of lack of D and being much softer team compared to the final 4 teams that made as far as they did last year.

Again, I know you're very upset that Tavares is on the Leafs so you're trying to find whatever you can to last the summer(we'll see way less of you during the season).

The real difference between the Leafs and those other teams in the final four is that the very best/most important players on their teams aren't 21 and younger.

The most fun thing about the Tavares signing on these boards is how distraught its made you.
 
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Isaac Nootin

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
7,540
11,815
The Leafs are a fun team to watch but threads like this really make it hard to root for them.

The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win in sports. You can't just start counting "how many"

Good thing OP isn't a Leafs fan. Seems to be that way most of the time with main board threads.
 
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The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
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Again, I know you're very upset that Tavares is on the Leafs so you're trying to find whatever you can to last the summer(we'll see way less of you during the season).

The real difference between the Leafs and those other teams in the final four is that the very best/most important players on their teams aren't 21 and younger.

The most fun thing about the Tavares signing on these boards is how distraught its made you.

If anyone sounds upset, it is you. Nevertheless, The Leafs have a very soft roster. Something I believe will become more a topic as the year goes in the Toronto media. You may disagree this matters or not in winning playoffs rds. But I believe it does matter by the final 1, 2 and 4 teams left standing last year in the playoffs. Smurf hockey will only get a team so far. You do not win a cup in the regular season. Playoffs are an entirely different challenge.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
21,006
Oh...maybe Sundin/Gilmour era Leafs...
I would like to give some more respect to Mats and Dougie who are hall of famers.

Mats had a 114 pts season, Dougie 127 and 111 pts in back to back seasons.

Calling Tavares and Matthews franchise Centers with a career high of 86 and 69 points should know they are Not in the same league.
 
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Tad Mikowsky

Only Droods
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Jun 30, 2008
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I've been saying he's a top 5 since before he signed with the Leafs. You can go back and check if you like.

On that list you provided, he's better than all those guys minus McDavid, Crosby and Malkin.

He's been top 3 for GAR(Goals above Replacement) since 2015. *Note this is all forwards.

He's been top 10 for DGAR(Defensive Goals above Replacement since last year. *Note this is all forwards

In the last two seasons, Tavares is in the 95th percentile for controlled zone entries, zone exits, shot assists.

From TheAthletic: Here’s a list of players who finished in the 70th percentile of shot rate and 95th percentile in shot assist rate since 2016:
  • Artemi Panarin
  • Connor McDavid
  • Jack Eichel
  • John Tavares
  • Nikita Kucherov
  • Patrick Kane
He's been right there with Crosby the last few years as well

Crosby-vs-Tavares-1024x502.png


Not saying he's better than Crosby but he's been amazing on a team that gave him nothing to work with all these years.

WOWY-1.png


WOWY-2.png


So yeah, definitely a top 5 center IMO, and it'll be more apparent this year.

He's going to have more help now than he's ever had, and that should scare the league.

While I disagree with some of the stat usage used (Goals above Replacement is very sketchy right now, as it has way too many variables to be a reliable statistic IMO), I do appreciate the amount of work you put into the post and I respect that.
 
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Riseonfire

Josh Bailey! GAME ONE, TO THE ISLAND!!!
Nov 8, 2009
11,303
5,281
Psst... Washington just won the cup

Psssst.... You know full well Washington's reputation for years, I even included San Jose just so you couldn't cherry pick Washington's recent season.

The comparison was being a good/great team that can't/hasn't gotten it done. Is that clear enough for you now or should I further differentiate?
 

Nizdizzle

Offseason Is The Worst Season
Jul 7, 2007
13,861
6,874
Windsor, Ontario
twitter.com
Psssst.... You know full well Washington's reputation for years, I even included San Jose just so you couldn't cherry pick Washington's recent season.

The comparison was being a good/great team that can't/hasn't gotten it done. Is that clear enough for you now or should I further differentiate?
Was only ribbing you, my friend. My apologies if that was a sore spot.
 
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PatriceBergeronFan

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
59,139
36,522
USA
10% think 3+... optimistic.

Islanders have terrible goaltending, bad coach and a bad team overall?

Tavares is joining a 100+ point team.

Don't forget that he played in a true, offense only system last year. Going to a system may offset the improved roster benefit.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,518
46,235
The "crappy Leaf D" myth is getting tiresome. They were 12th overall in GA. Meaning nearly 20 teams were worse, including Pittsburgh, Tampa and Washington. That D worked out okay for the Caps.

The lazy analysis of using GA and only GA to determine the strength of a defense is getting tiresome. The Leafs D was also bottom third in pretty much every shots against/scoring chance against metric as well.

Having to rely on 1st star performances by your goalie to cover up shortcomings for your defense results in what happened in the playoffs when the defense kept leaking shots against/scoring chances against, but Andersen's play didn't cover for it.
 

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