how long does brendan smith have?

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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I'm getting tired of waiting for Smith. Once in a while he pulls off a "very good game" which for him tends to just mean nothing much bad happened while he was on the ice. That's the standard he's held to. He's terrible defensively, and has 0 points this season. Yes, Quincey is part of that. He's bad too. But if Smith was as good as he has always been made out to be, he'd find a way to prove it.

I'm about ready to trade him for whatever we can get.
 

detredWINgs

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I'm getting tired of waiting for Smith. Once in a while he pulls off a "very good game" which for him tends to just mean nothing much bad happened while he was on the ice. That's the standard he's held to. He's terrible defensively, and has 0 points this season. Yes, Quincey is part of that. He's bad too. But if Smith was as good as he has always been made out to be, he'd find a way to prove it.

I'm about ready to trade him for whatever we can get.

55 career NHL games. What patience you have.
 

Hckytwn

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Jul 9, 2010
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Smith hasn't played well, but he's been set up to fail paired with Quincey. KQ hangs his partner out to dry over and over again. Smith can't pinch in without it blowing up in his face. Even tonight against Ottawa Quincey screwed Dekeyser over a few times--and I know DD isn't bad defensively.

Bottom line is that Quincey has been on the ice for 15 of the 30 goals against for the Wings, he's tied for most PIMs and he provides no offensive support. There's is absolutely no reason to keep him around. Trade him for whatever you can get and bring in Quellete or Almquist. At least they have some upside potential, unlike Quincey. See how Smith does then, without this anvil tied around his neck.
 

detredWINgs

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Smith hasn't played well, but he's been set up to fail paired with Quincey. KQ hangs his partner out to dry over and over again. Smith can't pinch in without it blowing up in his face. Even tonight against Ottawa Quincey screwed Dekeyser over a few times--and I know DD isn't bad defensively.

Bottom line is that Quincey has been on the ice for 15 of the 30 goals against for the Wings, he's tied for most PIMs and he provides no offensive support. There's is absolutely no reason to keep him around. Trade him for whatever you can get and bring in Quellete or Almquist. At least they have some upside potential, unlike Quincey. See how Smith does then, without this anvil tied around his neck.

Quincey is also 28. He's at the age where many defenders are peaking - not nose-diving.

I'd just as soon have Lashoff instead of Quincey at this point, if it meant solving our salary cap woes.
 

Brandel*

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yup trade him for future considerations :sarcasm: (or maybe not :sarcasm:) :shakehead

offensive only player, lots of skill but not nearly smart enough to play in the nhl. that is that, he'll look like he plays well some night when he isnt put in tough situations.
 

RedWingsNow*

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I know Jiri Fischer was much younger when he started in Detroit... but it's funny the way people are writing off Smith after 55 games.
That would be like writing off Fischer in 2000-01
He was brutal in 52 games in 99-00. He was brutal in 00-01.
He was still pretty raw in 01-02, but had a really solid playoffs next to Chelios.
He got hurt in 02-03. He struggled quite a bit in 03-04. I mean, 360 games into his career, people were still pretty disappointed in him.
He started to show some skill in 05-06... and he was on an 11-goal 30-point pace when he got hurt... at the ripe old age of 25.

It takes time and patience to develop a defenseman.

The amazing thing is how patient Detroit was with Fischer at the NHL level. Even more so, because Bowman was notoriously impatient with prospects.

Yet here's Fischer who had 187 regular season games plus 27 playoff games and cup and he was still 21.

Kindl is 26 and has fewer games to his name.
Smith is 24 and has 55 + 14 to his name.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Brendan Smith update:
-9, 0 pts this season.

Quincey 1 assist -8.

I think Smith was abit asleep at the wheel on the Spezza goal today (Datsyuk deserves blame, too, but he probably thought there'd be a defenseman backing him up.)

But I can't blame Smith on the second minus he took today.
 

RedWingzz

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Quincey 1 assist -8.

I think Smith was abit asleep at the wheel on the Spezza goal today (Datsyuk deserves blame, too, but he probably thought there'd be a defenseman backing him up.)

But I can't blame Smith on the second minus he took today.

Smith gets caught out of position more than any Defenseman I have ever seen. Half of the time in the defensive zone, Smith is at the blueline for some reason. He plays D not forward. He should have been a forward growing up, maybe then he'd be a solid NHLer. As a D, he isn't. I'm not entirely ready to give up on him yet, but he is extremely frustrating to watch. The speed is there, the hockey sense is not.
 

sully6one

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Aug 6, 2011
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Smith gets caught out of position more than any Defenseman I have ever seen. Half of the time in the defensive zone, Smith is at the blueline for some reason. He plays D not forward. He should have been a forward growing up, maybe then he'd be a solid NHLer. As a D, he isn't. I'm not entirely ready to give up on him yet, but he is extremely frustrating to watch. The speed is there, the hockey sense is not.

Smith does not have speed. He just looks good skating, but not speed. His skating actually is below average I'd say. Fluent, pretty effective, but not fast or quick.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Smith is fast and has great quickness that he uses well, especially when he's playing with confidence. Few guys step into gap and make plays with Smith's quickness.
He's our fastest and quickest defenseman.
 

sully6one

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Aug 6, 2011
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Smith is fast and has great quickness that he uses well, especially when he's playing with confidence. Few guys step into gap and make plays with Smith's quickness.
He's our fastest and quickest defenseman.

Actually pay attention to it one game, it's deceiving. Kronwall and DeKeyser are light years faster than him though for sure.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Actually pay attention to it one game, it's deceiving. Kronwall and DeKeyser are light years faster than him though for sure.

He has them on first step quickness, especially in terms of finding seems and things like that, which RWN is talking about.

The problem is his mind is too locked up, but you will see it when he makes decisive offensive moves, he explodes into them. Think he has lost a little of his top gear with the 15 lbs he has put on since moving up from college, but that first step is still lightening quick especially in the offensive zone.

Might be part of his problem, he may have been a guy that was always a beat slow making a decision and it had little counter productivity at the lower levels.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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55 career NHL games. What patience you have.

Okay I guess I didn't realize it has been that few. It feels like he has been around for much longer. Regardless, I don't see anything worth waiting for and wish he would show something soon. Shouldn't an offensive specialist be able to at least pot a few garbage goals against 4th liners? I mean I'm willing to grit my teeth while he sticks it out for another season... but if we did look for the trade route I wouldn't miss him.
 

DatsyukToZetterberg

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Okay I guess I didn't realize it has been that few. It feels like he has been around for much longer. Regardless, I don't see anything worth waiting for and wish he would show something soon. Shouldn't an offensive specialist be able to at least pot a few garbage goals against 4th liners? I mean I'm willing to grit my teeth while he sticks it out for another season... but if we did look for the trade route I wouldn't miss him.

He hasn't been giving the opportunity to produce offensively. Yes you'd expect him to have a goal or 2 by now but it's not like it really matters when he's not being asked or put into a role to produce offense. Last year he was a rookie that was playing the 3rd hardst minutes on the team & recieved little PP time, no defenceman on our besides Kronwall producs at 5v5. You won't get many points or goals playing those minutes, especially as a rookie.

The fact that DeKeyser gets to play on the #2 PP unit over Smith should be enough for us to see how Babcock views Smith. Smith in Babcock's eyes is going to be a defensive dman an the NHL, though there is the chance that Babcock refuses to play Smith on the PP until he irons out most of his defensive faults.

The bigger problem here is not that Smith isn't producing offense it's the fact that nobody on the backend is besides Kronwall. Outside of Kronwall & Ericsson no other defenceman on this team has above a 2 GF/60, the next highest is DeKeyser at 1.88 GF/60. Our supposed next best offensive defencman in Kindl has a paltry 1.11 GF/60.

Obviously it's not just Smith who isn't scoring our whole team outside of the top line & top PP unit can't put the puck in the net.
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Hes been bad with Quincey (which is entirely on Babcock, other pairs work much better) hes young give him time away from Quincey hes been a lot better without him the last 2 games.

People are even trying to blame him for that Spezza goal last night which is on Datsyuk. Smith had the third man coming down the wing anyone who knows hockey knows thats the right play, you dont just dumpp your man and double team with Datsyuk (who should be able to handle himself fine) and leave another guy wide open. And we've even gotten to the point where we say his skating is below average? Come on some of you are getting worse than when everyone hated on Ericcson.

For the record Smith is already playing tougher minutes than Kindl who is getting a lot of love this year and isnt playing SH
 
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I mean, what is location, really
The thing with Smith is just that I can't find a reason for why he's on the roster. He's not creating offense for other players, he's not scoring himself, he's not keeping the puck out of the net. What is he adding? Toughness? because we haven't seen that either.

At minimum, he cannot play the role Babcock wants to use him in right now.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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The thing with Smith is just that I can't find a reason for why he's on the roster. He's not creating offense for other players, he's not scoring himself, he's not keeping the puck out of the net. What is he adding? Toughness? because we haven't seen that either.

At minimum, he cannot play the role Babcock wants to use him in right now.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. What's he good for? You all say he's being played in a defensive role but what does that even mean? He's not hanging out in our crease all game. I see him on the O side of the opposing blue line. I see him making passes to forwards, I even see him taking shots and getting open for passes. Some plays he makes are decent. But he has 0 points. He doesn't score when he has the opportunity to. His pass recipients don't score. What does that mean? That Babcock is telling him he better not show up in the points column or else? Is he missing the net on purpose so he has more time to play defense? He plays 18 minutes a night. So he doesn't have PP time, big deal. A lot of people score points at even strength. Why can't he?

He's terrible defensively, I don't think anyone around here would argue that. So he needs a redeeming quality. If he has to learn NHL quality defense starting from scratch all while producing 0 points and allowing 3 breakaways per game against, then I have no patience for him. If he allows 3 breakaways per game while slowly improving and burying some slapshots once in a while, then I'll give him some more time.
 

Lord Stan 2020

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I got back to Jensen injury.

I think Jensen was gonna make the team. I think him and smith would have worked out decently. I am not too sold on smith think ouellet winds up better for sure.

Problem is Ouellet is 20 and worry on hurting him by calling up full time.

I really think trading Quincey might be best for the team. Might be the guy we can actually move. Wish his stats were not so terrible is just ugly with his pay scale.

At this point I bring up ouellet I cut quincey instead of tootoo and eat the difference.

I am seriously out of patience. Will say this at one point said smith would be here in 3 years. I am not sure anymore. He had a shot and put it in the bread basket. I mean at least hit towards the corners down stick it into the exact stomach of the goalie everytime.

I am unsure what his scoring capabilities are just not impressed. Seeing a 20 year old already have more skills is very frustrating.
 

Soft Rock Renegade

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May 17, 2012
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I know Jiri Fischer was much younger when he started in Detroit... but it's funny the way people are writing off Smith after 55 games.
That would be like writing off Fischer in 2000-01
He was brutal in 52 games in 99-00. He was brutal in 00-01.
He was still pretty raw in 01-02, but had a really solid playoffs next to Chelios.
He got hurt in 02-03. He struggled quite a bit in 03-04. I mean, 360 games into his career, people were still pretty disappointed in him.
He started to show some skill in 05-06... and he was on an 11-goal 30-point pace when he got hurt... at the ripe old age of 25.

It takes time and patience to develop a defenseman.

The amazing thing is how patient Detroit was with Fischer at the NHL level. Even more so, because Bowman was notoriously impatient with prospects.

Yet here's Fischer who had 187 regular season games plus 27 playoff games and cup and he was still 21.

Kindl is 26 and has fewer games to his name.
Smith is 24 and has 55 + 14 to his name.

fischer had just tunred 19 before his debut. you're talking about his age 19, 20 and 21 seasons
 

DatsyukToZetterberg

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That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. What's he good for? You all say he's being played in a defensive role but what does that even mean? He's not hanging out in our crease all game. I see him on the O side of the opposing blue line. I see him making passes to forwards, I even see him taking shots and getting open for passes. Some plays he makes are decent. But he has 0 points. He doesn't score when he has the opportunity to. His pass recipients don't score. What does that mean? That Babcock is telling him he better not show up in the points column or else? Is he missing the net on purpose so he has more time to play defense? He plays 18 minutes a night. So he doesn't have PP time, big deal. A lot of people score points at even strength. Why can't he?

Nobody else on the defence scores besides Kronwall. If you're going to critique Smith for not producing why not bring up Kindl, DeKeyser or Quincey? As I've pointed out before every defenceman besides Kronwall & Ericsson average below 2 GF/60 ES TOI, if you take out DeKeyser then the remaining players are all below 1.3 GF/60.

Smith may not score himself but he has hit a couple of posts this year & has looked ok when shooting the puck. You seriously can't blame him for his teammates not burying the puck, once he has made a pass he has no control over what they do with it. Smith's 4 most common linemates this year are: Quincey, Cleary, Andersson & Bertuzzi. Combined those 4 players have 6 ES points, I'm not sure how Smith is going to be able to produce any significant ES numbers playing with them.

He's terrible defensively, I don't think anyone around here would argue that. So he needs a redeeming quality. If he has to learn NHL quality defense starting from scratch all while producing 0 points and allowing 3 breakaways per game against, then I have no patience for him. If he allows 3 breakaways per game while slowly improving and burying some slapshots once in a while, then I'll give him some more time.

I'd venture to say that Smith isn't the worst defensive player on the Wings. I'd say thus far he's been better than Lashoff & around the same as Quincey. He has the 2nd most hits on the team, 3rd most takeaways & he's tied for the 2nd most giveaways. I'd like to see him play better but he's still young, if he's making the same mistakes next year & the year after that it'll be time to start worrying about him.

Kindl was horrible defensively for 2 years before he became "adequate" he wasn't forced to play the hardest minutes his rookie year & he still doesn't get the 2nd hardest assignments, they still go to Smith & Quincey. Ericsson had that great playoff run but was lackluster for the next 2 years. It takes defenceman time to adjust to the NHL & trading away ones with the upside that Smith has is a losing venture.
 

TheOtherOne

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Nobody else on the defence scores besides Kronwall. If you're going to critique Smith for not producing why not bring up Kindl, DeKeyser or Quincey?

Because Kindl and Dekeyser aren't train wrecks on defense. Generally if I don't notice a defenseman much, they're fine by me. I don't require that defensemen get points. But if I notice a defenseman making stupid mistakes and giving up unnecessary scoring chance after unnecessary scoring chance, game after game, then he'd better be scoring points to make up for it otherwise I see no use for him.

And I'm willing to throw Quincey and Lashoff under the bus so don't bother using them as examples.

Like I said before, I'm willing (though reluctant) to give Smith the rest of the season to turn it around. But every game he's making my patience wear thinner.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Smith gets caught out of position more than any Defenseman I have ever seen. Half of the time in the defensive zone, Smith is at the blueline for some reason. He plays D not forward. He should have been a forward growing up, maybe then he'd be a solid NHLer. As a D, he isn't. I'm not entirely ready to give up on him yet, but he is extremely frustrating to watch. The speed is there, the hockey sense is not.

Feast your eyes on Quincey who, without a doubt in my mind, is the worst positional hockey player on the Red Wings.
 

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