How long can Marner or Laine hold out and their club can still expect to make the playoffs?

[shortfuze]

I don't understand what you are saying at all. I made no reference to last season.

No, I don't feel they are as good as last year on paper.

My bad. I responded to the wrong person.

 

[Saitama]

I don't think we'll get to find out, because I think that both players will be signed before the season starts. But if they aren't, both teams have enough talent to see them through to the playoffs.

 

[Srsly]

Last season the Leafs were only 4 pts ahead of the Habs who missed the playoffs. Take Marner off their team and they lose more than 4 pts which would had left them out of a playoff spot last season.

The Leafs should have a properly conditioned Nylander(for 82 games), and have replaced an injured Gardiner with a healthy Barrie.Ideally Matthews will also play a full season. It’s not as black and white as removing Marner from the roster and calling it a loss.

 

[Baksfamous112]

The real question is for how long will Winnipeg have enough cap space to sign Connor/Laine after the season started?

Same for Toronto.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Leafs defence is significantly better than last years......

Plus if Marner doesn't sign all year they still have something like 10 or 11 million in LTIR contracts they can sue to exceed the cap, so they can get 2-3 good players for the year instead + build up depth.

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

 

[Voight]

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

I don't think Gardiner is better than Barrie tbh.

As for Hainsey, if Lilligren or Sandin have a solid TC, they could be his replacement and both have some good potential, especially Lilligren.

 

[Kelly]

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

Gardiner is better than Barrie now?

Hilarious

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I love how much Toronto fans have started downplaying Marner after pumping his tires endlessly since he was drafted.

He's a great player.
What are we suppose to do? Act like the world is crumbling around us because he wants a redic contract.
We have a good club sans mitch....it isnt his team and he's finding that out super fast

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

Gardiner isnt better than Barrie, at all

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Toronto will miss Marner more than they think they will. They might still make the playoffs without him but then depends on how Montreal and Florida perform. If they both take a step forward I think Toronto is the odd one out without Marner. I know he wasn't great in the playoffs (besides the first couple games) but from what I've seen he really drives that team. I know Leafs fans aren't keen on him right now but I think he is their best player - if not best definitely most dynamic.

The Jets aren't a lock to begin with and could easily miss even with Laine he plays like last season. I think they probably make it with or without him but I am really unsure of where they end up next season.

Florida's goalies had a save % of under .900 last year, adding Bobrovsky will be huge for them. Also with a healthy Trochek, adding Stralman and a depth scorer like Connolly I won't be surprised to see them 3rd behind Tampa/Boston.

 

[bukwas]

I think both teams have the depth to survive those players missing the entire season. Key players in other positions on those particular teams could pose a more serious problem but i have a feeling that if you held a gun to Chevy and Dubas's heads and demand they both surrender an important player, they would both, begrudgingly, offer up a winger.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't think Gardiner is better than Barrie tbh.

As for Hainsey, if Lilligren or Sandin have a solid TC, they could be his replacement and both have some good potential, especially Lilligren.

Those rookies have promise, but Hainsey has proven he can (barely) tread water playing top competition at the NHL level. Until any of those rookies do it, he’s a much better option.

Gardiner is better than Barrie now?

Hilarious

Gardiner isnt better than Barrie, at all

Barrie is better at scoring points, and largely due to the difference in their power play production.

Gardiner is way better at everything else.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Barrie is better at scoring points, and largely due to the difference in their power play production.

Gardiner is way better at everything else.

I'm worried about what we got in Barrie then..... Cause everything else of Gardiner is scared of corners, pressure, skating hard etc. He basically is a very good non contact 3on3 offenseman that has a bad back.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I'm worried about what we got in Barrie then..... Cause everything else of Gardiner is scared of corners, pressure, skating hard etc. He basically is a very good non contact 3on3 offenseman

I understand the journey to his results weren’t always pretty, but Gardiner’s results have always been very good on the offensive and defensive side of things. The same can’t be said for Barrie.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I understand the journey to his results weren’t always pretty, but Gardiner’s results have always been very good on the offensive and defensive side of things. The same can’t be said for Barrie.

Has Barrie smoke and mirrored his way through the NHL?
Cause I know Gardiner from the very first game he played in pros... haven't missed one. And after the last few... I'm more than fine trying any other player in that position... he doesnt have IT, and never will.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Has Barrie smoke and mirrored his way through the NHL?
Cause I know Gardiner from the very first game he played in pros... haven't missed one. And after the last few... I'm more than fine trying any other player in that position... he doesnt have IT, and never will.

Over the past 3 years, the Leafs have scored 58.53% of the goals with Gardiner on the ice, and 51.05% of the goals with him off the ice. I will take those types of results over whatever “IT” is.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Over the past 3 years, the Leafs have scored 58.53% of the goals with Gardiner on the ice, and 51.05% of the goals with him off the ice. I will take those types of results over whatever “IT” is.

You know what IT is.
Biting down on your mouthguard and doing what needs to be done in the most important games of the year.

But you keep going back to these stats and not actually watch him.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

OP with the massive swing and miss on this take lol.

 

[Andy6]

I would say Winnipeg is equally or even more likely to make the playoffs without Laine than with him. That doesn’t mean the team wouldn’t be harmed, in the long run, by his missing a season of development, though.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You know what IT is.
Biting down on your mouthguard and doing what needs to be done in the most important games of the year.

But you keep going back to these stats and not actually watch him.

I have watched plenty of Gardiner, and he has generally looked excellent.

I can understand the frustration with his performances in game 7s. But you are literally looking at a 3-game sample size and placing more emphasis on that than hundreds of games where the team was miles better with him on the ice.

And in this thread, we are talking about whether or not Toronto would make the playoffs in the first place. I think they still would, but it’s not the slam dunk that people are making it out to be, and I think the reason that they would make it would not be because they’ve improved their defense. They haven’t really done that at all.

 

[member 298589]

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

It's probably closer than most people think outside of Game 7 history. But you neglect the fact that Toronto needed a RHD.

It also astounds me how often you show up in TML threads, claiming more knowledge of the team than Leafs fans themselves. And all to constantly denigrate the team?

Be better than that.

 

[LaTenderness]

Marner will play he’s a good Canadian boy

 

[Martin Skoula]

I have watched plenty of Gardiner, and he has generally looked excellent.

I can understand the frustration with his performances in game 7s. But you are literally looking at a 3-game sample size and placing more emphasis on that than hundreds of games where the team was miles better with him on the ice.

And in this thread, we are talking about whether or not Toronto would make the playoffs in the first place. I think they still would, but it’s not the slam dunk that people are making it out to be, and I think the reason that they would make it would not be because they’ve improved their defense. They haven’t really done that at all.

Compared to the team we had down the stretch/in the playoffs, the defense has improved.

Gardiner had a very steep decline in the back half of the year with his (at the time) undiagnosed back injuries. Nobody knows how well he's recovered. Imagine Gardiner's existing game, but now with (somehow) less upper body strength, less speed/agility, and an increased mental fear of injury.

Gardiner from years past might be better than Barrie on a macro scale, but that player likely no longer exists. He'll probably put up strong possession stats in Carolina regardless of his recovery, but as soon as the playoffs hit, teams will know to target him for easy turnovers.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I feel like people have just said this enough that now we all feel it’s been spoken into existence.

Gardiner>Barrie
Zaitsev<Ceci
Hainsey>Schmaltz or Harpur

Barrie is no defensive stalwart, but he's better than Gardiner.

The others I'll agree with

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

It's probably closer than most people think outside of Game 7 history. But you neglect the fact that Toronto needed a RHD.

It also astounds me how often you show up in TML threads, claiming more knowledge of the team than Leafs fans themselves. And all to constantly denigrate the team?

Be better than that.

Yes, they did improve the handedness thing on their blue line which did appear to be an issue although Muzzin-Rielly as a pair had good results together IIRC. But I don’t believe the handedness was enough for that to be an upgrade to their blue line.

I’m not constantly denigrating the team whatsoever. I just respond to things I disagree with.

Compared to the team we had down the stretch/in the playoffs, the defense has improved.

Gardiner had a very steep decline in the back half of the year with his (at the time) undiagnosed back injuries. Nobody knows how well he's recovered. Imagine Gardiner's existing game, but now with (somehow) less upper body strength, less speed/agility, and an increased mental fear of injury.

Gardiner from years past might be better than Barrie on a macro scale, but that player likely no longer exists. He'll probably put up strong possession stats in Carolina regardless of his recovery, but as soon as the playoffs hit, teams will know to target him for easy turnovers.

That’s fair, but the fact is that according to all of the numbers, Gardiner still was that good player for the ~60 games of the season that he played in. I’m also not convinced that Gardiner won’t return to form but we’ll see.