How is Blake Wheeler doing?

[Jormungandr]

The reason for picking Wheeler as early as they did is simple. The scouts apparently were upset with the rest of management for not taking a guy they were high on the year before (I am forgetting who, perhaps another Coyotes' fan can help me out). If the Coyotes were to have traded down, sure they may have picked up another 3rd round pick (in a shallow draft, mind you) but if they ended up missing out on Wheeler (a possibility, as the Coyotes surely weren't the only team willing to go off the board), then the scouting team would have been extremely miffed, perhaps miffed enough to leave. And upsetting a proven asset like Dave Draper is a bad idea.

PhoPhan, wasn't it Konstantin Pushkarev? He went before we had our first pick that year but I remember reading somewhere that the scouts wanted him badly and asked management to try and trade up and draft him. Instead we drafted Redenbach with our first pick 77th overall , a pick that i'm more than happy with, but having your first pick in the third round is never a good thing.

 

[PhoPhan]

PhoPhan, wasn't it Konstantin Pushkarev? He went before we had our first pick that year but I remember reading somewhere that the scouts wanted him badly and asked management to try and trade up and draft him. Instead we drafted Redenbach with our first pick 77th overall , a pick that i'm more than happy with, but having your first pick in the third round is never a good thing.

Bullseye. Konstantin Pushkarev.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

The reason I suggested they might have coddled to Draper's request is due to the fact that they had pissed him off before, and he was practically threatening to leave. They had just seen Benoit Allaire, one of the best goalie coaches in the league, skip town, and they didn't want to lose another important part of the front office.

Out of curiosity, were there particular reasons for Allaire's departure? Was he at odds with management?

Thanks!

 

[hbk]

Out of curiosity, were there particular reasons for Allaire's departure? Was he at odds with management?

Thanks!

Allaire and Boucher had a very public falling out after Allaire felt that Boucher didn't praise his influence enough after his shutout streak.

I don't think anyone in Phoenix management was too upset at his decsion to leave. Good coach but he rubbed a number of people in the organization the wrong way.

 

[Legionnaire]

Allaire and Boucher had a very public falling out after Allaire felt that Boucher didn't praise his influence enough after his shutout streak.

I don't think anyone in Phoenix management was too upset at his decsion to leave. Good coach but he rubbed a number of people in the organization the wrong way.

Wasn't it also the fact that Boucher decided that after the streak he could play his own game, and basically ignored Allaire's teachings-the same teachings that got him there?

 

[Russian_fanatic]

I expected the guy to be picked around 20th overall, and by the Canucks

 

[hbk]

Wasn't it also the fact that Boucher decided that after the streak he could play his own game, and basically ignored Allaire's teachings-the same teachings that got him there?

Boucher had a bad period and Allaire instructed Ric Bowness to pull him. Boucher was not happy with the call and they had a very public arguement in the hall between periods. Bowness instructed management to send Allaire down to the farm to prevent him from upsetting his goalie. Allaire pouted on the farm and refused to travel with the team as he had reservations regarding particular modes of transportation. This didn't sit well with management and the other members of the coaching staff(s).

 

[MS]

Maybe you dont realise how bad their drafting was before Draper. Focht, DesRochers, Kelman, Safronov.. these are the guys who carried franchise tags! A shocking record. In five years, they've had just two unqualified successes in Ossi Vaananen and Trevor Letowski (gee). Esche and Briere were more headaches for years than successes and that's pretty much it. We're not saying Draper is the best scout in the NHL but its patently obvious clear to every Coyote fan here that he has improved their drafting and development considerably. He's helped the team get more NHLers in his first four years than they got in the five years before it and most likely will double or treble that output when all is said and done. Its possible he will end up having drafted 5 NHLers from the 2002 class, a truly outstanding record in a terrible year and several late picks are showing surprising progress (ie/ Lewandowski dominating Germany, Gelech top scorer for Memorial Cup winners)

I agree with you in your other points though, I dont think they lick his boots or anything. I think they just rolled the dice with a big time project because the last time they were in a draft of such poor quality.. they played safe and drafted Koreis and Eager. Those guys will be OK 3rd liners in the NHL but they dont need more 3rd liners.. they have too many as it is.. they need prospects with real upside.. someone like Wheeler.

I don't see Phoenix's drafting as being any better since Draper's arrival. It just looks better because the picks are more recent and still have potential. Take a snapshot of the Phoenix organization in 2001, and Kolanos, Abid, Fabus, Safronov, Ralph, Jaspers, Westrum, Blackburn, etc. all look like solid picks. Likewise, most of the players who seem to have potential now will have flopped out in 3-4 years.

2001 was a mediocre draft. Sjostrom is ok, but not as good as the players taken immediately after him. Spiller an OK #2 pick, the rest are rubbish.

2002 the first-round picks are brutal. Eager and Koreis over guys like Babchuk, Steen, Ward, and Toivonen. Ouch. Leneveu is a good #2 pick, a few college guys (Jones, Zeiler) are developing solidly. Overall a weak draft given the two lousy #1 picks. How you can say this is an outstanding draft is completely beyond me ... they'll be lucky to get 1 or 2 NHL players out of this group, never mind 5.

2003 is hard to evaluate because of the lack of top picks ... Gelech was a nice find, but there isn't much else. Lewandowski's numbers look nice, but his league is sub-AHL calibre, and several minor-pro castoffs on his team are scoring at the same rate. Redenbach was a reach where he was taken.

2004 they fly off the map and take Wheeler. Lisin and Porter might be some good skill forward picks (finally).

Sorry, but this is brutal. No-one with any offensive upside up front (save Wheeler), no defenders with any real upside (Spiller should be a good third-pairing guy but that's it), and one decent goaltending prospect in Leneveu. The best of the bunch up front are 3rd-line types like Sjostrom, Eager, Gelech. Yes, they sucked before 2001, but this is just as bad. At least they hit a few home runs in Vaananen, Briere, and Esche, and Kolanos was looking great before his concussion problems.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I don't see Phoenix's drafting as being any better since Draper's arrival. It just looks better because the picks are more recent and still have potential.

I'm afraid you may be right. I'll give them some time but share your concerns. They ignore good players and make what looks like weird selections IMO.

 

[dafranchz]

I'm afraid you may be right. I'll give them some time but share your concerns. They ignore good players and make what looks like weird selections IMO.

Then the true question is...does management feel competent with Vaughn Karpan and his staff or not? It seems that they undermind the scouting staff and have someother "outside" influence. The draft is and should be Vaughn's baby.

I have a really good idea that all this lies with the uppers, but I have no official comment on that.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Out of curiosity, were there particular reasons for Allaire's departure? Was he at odds with management?

Thanks!

The official reason is that they couldnt deny him the opportunity to be an Assistant GM at New York, rather than stay as a technical goalie coach. Better job, better money, better prospects.. etc.

I'm inclined to believe that was the biggest reason. The arguments might have factored in, but IMO only insofar as they werent interested in giving him a similar position to the AGM that New York dangled.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Thanks for the clarification! I think your assumption is more than reasonable.

 

[rt]

2001. Sjostrom is ok, but not as good as the players taken immediately after him.

We'll see about that.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

I don't see Phoenix's drafting as being any better since Draper's arrival. It just looks better because the picks are more recent and still have potential. Take a snapshot of the Phoenix organization in 2001, and Kolanos, Abid, Fabus, Safronov, Ralph, Jaspers, Westrum, Blackburn, etc. all look like solid picks. Likewise, most of the players who seem to have potential now will have flopped out in 3-4 years.

It doesnt just "look" better - it is already equal since Draper has produced as many NHLers in 4 years as the previous 5 years did. These guys with potential are actually above and beyond this - so if as likely, a few make it through, they are extra.

Also Abid was actually originally a Draper pick at Colorado!

2001 was a mediocre draft. Sjostrom is ok, but not as good as the players taken immediately after him. Spiller an OK #2 pick, the rest are rubbish.

Actually Sjostrom is pretty good when you look at the rubbish forwards taken after him. Only Hemsky stands out.

I dont think you know anything about Podlesak to describe him as rubbish. He was a fantastic prospect and in 2002 was rated Phoenix's best prospect and one of the top 50 by NHL GM's. Three successive severe concussions have put his career in jeopardy.. its amazing he's even playing hockey again.

2002 the first-round picks are brutal. Eager and Koreis over guys like Babchuk, Steen, Ward, and Toivonen. Ouch. Leneveu is a good #2 pick, a few college guys (Jones, Zeiler) are developing solidly. Overall a weak draft given the two lousy #1 picks. How you can say this is an outstanding draft is completely beyond me ... they'll be lucky to get 1 or 2 NHL players out of this group, never mind 5.

Oh really.. Toivonen? And you talk about remembering to rate people how they used to be seen? Koreis was ranked WAY higher than Toivonen at the time.

2002 was a terrible draft year, surely you know this. Its easy to play games and build a "superdraft" three years later. Considering this, Leneveu was a GREAT pick at #45.. a top 10 goalie prospect out of all recent drafts. Zeiler is not that great a prospect.. I am guessing you dont really know these guys because Callahan is a significantly better prospect than Zeiler and probably Jones too. Leneveu is getting ready to enter the NHL and Koreis and Eager look like solid bets to play as well. Just because they have limited upsides of third liners doesnt make them bad picks, actually if they reach it, they'll be better picks than half the first round. I believe I said 4 or 5 of these guys will at least play in the NHL rather than all of them becoming career NHLers. That would still be an excellent draft class in a terrible year, on a par with virtually any other NHL team.

2003 is hard to evaluate because of the lack of top picks ... Gelech was a nice find, but there isn't much else. Lewandowski's numbers look nice, but his league is sub-AHL calibre, and several minor-pro castoffs on his team are scoring at the same rate. Redenbach was a reach where he was taken.

A reach? This is a bad thing? Isnt that what a 'steal' is? Considering he went on to become the WHL scoring leader, this is one reach that looks like a good pick with hindsight.

2004 they fly off the map and take Wheeler. Lisin and Porter might be some good skill forward picks (finally).

Sorry, but this is brutal. No-one with any offensive upside up front (save Wheeler), no defenders with any real upside (Spiller should be a good third-pairing guy but that's it), and one decent goaltending prospect in Leneveu. The best of the bunch up front are 3rd-line types like Sjostrom, Eager, Gelech. Yes, they sucked before 2001, but this is just as bad. At least they hit a few home runs in Vaananen, Briere, and Esche, and Kolanos was looking great before his concussion problems.

Sorry but your analysis is brutal. Leneveu is "decent" ? Try top 10 goaltender prospect.

Briere and Esche were not really home runs that they may appear. Briere caused problems for 95% of his time here and Esche never played well for us. Regardless, Draper has gotten us just as many NHLers already and its highly likely late bloomers will start adding to the numbers.

It was *terrible* before Draper, now its merely average. Go back and look at Focht, Safronov, KELMAN and you'll start appreciating guys like Sjostrom and Leneveu a little better.

 

[Joe d]

Gwyd, you're right, the track record wasn't anything great pre-Draper.

I just question the comments that Dave Draper would be so good that you have to cuddle him as an organization. The job he is doing right now seems to be average, so you'd think others could do that.

Having said that, it's still early and maybe Dave's reputed magic will come out from late picks the way it sometimes did in Colorado. Or maybe guys like Koreis and Eager will not even make it to the NHL. Both possibilities are very real.

I just think (and hope) the Coyotes took the guy because it sounds good, not to please Dave Draper because he might leave otherwise.

No matter how we cut it, Blake Wheeler is going to be a selection that makes people talk, which is kind of fun. I can't wait to see what happens in College!

Vlad...Here's a great quote from the Coach himself. Maybe this helps understand where Blake is at, and "How he is doing"
Posted Jan. 20, 2005

Junior hockey: RoughRiders turn back the Gamblers


Press-Gazette

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa — The Cedar Rapids RoughRiders turned back a rally by the Green Bay Gamblers to post a 4-3 victory in a United States Hockey League game on Wednesday night.

The RoughRiders — the top team in the East Division and with the best record in the league — improved to 27-4-3. The Gamblers, in fifth place in the East, are 12-22-1. The teams meet again Friday night at the Resch Center in Ashwaubenon.

Gamblers coach Mark Mazzoleni said although his team played well after a slow start, the close loss was tough to take.

“We had some exceptional chances to tie the game†in the third period, Mazzoleni said, “but we came up on the short end, and that’s not acceptable.â€

Cedar Rapids bolted to a 2-0 lead in the first 3 minutes, 25 seconds of the game.

“Their first two goals, they just beat us up the ice,’’ Mazzoleni said. “After that, we responded very well.â€

The Gamblers rallied to tie it in the first half of the second period. Blake Wheeler scored on the power play at 8:36, and Brian Roloff scored less than a minute later to tie it.

The RoughRiders retook the lead at 16:03 of the second period on a goal by Jon Grabarek, and made it 4-2 just 17 seconds into the third period on Rob Ricci’s second goal of the game.

Wheeler scored his second goal of the game — and team-high 13th of the season — at 4:22 of the third.

“Blake Wheeler was exceptional,†Mazzoleni said. “He had two goals for us, and has really stepped his game up. He’s a young man who has a tremendous amount of talent and ability, and he’s making a great amount of progress.â€

SCOREBOARD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Green Bay 0 2 1 — 3
Cedar Rapids 2 1 1 — 4

First period: 1, CR, Purcell (Abdelkader, Miskovec), 2:43; 2, CR, Ricci (Collins, Lovdahl), 3:25.

Second period: 3, GB, Wheeler (Stansik, Miller), 8:36 (pp); 4, GB, Roloff (Suter), 9:40; 5, CR, Grabarek (Felde), 16:03.

Third period: 6, CR, Ricci (Svendsen, Collins), 0:17; 7, GB, Wheeler (Stockdale), 4:22.

Shots on goal: GB 7-17-7 — 31; CR 13-9-12 — 34.

Goalies: GB, Kalemba (34 shots-30 saves); CR, Stalock (31 shots-28 saves).

Power-play opportunities: GB, 1-for-5; CR, 0-for-3.

Attendance: 1,495.

 

[rt]

Wheeler scored his second goal of the game — and team-high 13th of the season — at 4:22 of the third.

“Blake Wheeler was exceptional,†Mazzoleni said. “He had two goals for us, and has really stepped his game up. He’s a young man who has a tremendous amount of talent and ability, and he’s making a great amount of progress."

 

[Joe d]

Gamblers update: Coach Mark Mazzoleni has received multiple trade offers for his top player, forward Blake Wheeler.

Mazzoleni said every program in the West Division has approached him in the last three weeks about trading for Wheeler, the No. 5 overall NHL draft pick in 2005. He’s the highest NHL draft pick to play in the United States Hockey League.

“I’ve had as many as four guys being (offered) for him,†said Mazzoleni, whose team is 12-22-1 and in fifth place in the East Division. “There were commitments made to myself and Blake and his family. He’s lived up to everything and more. He’s very happy to be in Green Bay, and we’re really happy to have him to build around and have him as one of our alumni one day. I never entertained the thought of trading him.â€

Wheeler, who is headed to the University of Minnesota next season, leads the team with 13 goals and 27 points.

Mazzoleni said he also didn’t want to trade Wheeler because he feels his team has a shot at the playoffs, being just four points behind the fourth-place team.

“There’s a lot of kids in the locker room that have (worked hard) for the present,†Mazzoleni said. “It wouldn’t be fair to them and would kind of signal that (I’m) just posiioning (myself) for the future.â€

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Wheeler = Bust.

 

[Diaboli]

Sorry but your analysis is brutal. Leneveu is "decent" ? Try top 10 goaltender prospect.

Now that's a bit of a reach...

 

[PhoPhan]

Wheeler = Bust.

...based on what?

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Wheeler = Bust.

Well that's stupid enough of a statement to make me immediately put you on my ignore list.

NO player should be considered a bust that soon after being drafted. Especially one who is highly regarded.

That was just a moronic statement.

 

[Joe d]

Well that's stupid enough of a statement to make me immediately put you on my ignore list.

NO player should be considered a bust that soon after being drafted. Especially one who is highly regarded.

That was just a moronic statement.

Flames Draft Watcher....Moronic is an under statement.....but i put him on the same list that you have him on !!!!

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Now that's a bit of a reach...

I'm fascinated to hear what personal insight you have to make this statement about Leneveu. Regardless, I doubt it invalidates my point that describing him and especially that pick as merely "decent" was a total misnomer.

 

[hbk]

Now that's a bit of a reach...

McKeens has him as the 6th best goaltending prospect.

 

[rt]

McKeens has him as the 6th best goaltending prospect.

Snap.