How I'd fix this team..

[Frk It]

Nothing against you and please understand I'm not attacking you but I believe Backman is just too undersized (for his frame he is like 180lbs he would get worked in the nhl atm) to play in the nhl right now. There is also no room for him atm for a lh defensive positions. I wouldn't be suprised if the comments by Babs and Holland where to get his name out there to potentially move him as a asset. Granted he could really be something to watch for but the games I saw in GR this year he didn't seem like a worldbreaker either. Didn't seem bad but didn't stand out either.

I like Marchenko being on the club though. I believe him and XO are the most ready as far as are d playing prospects go.

I don't take offense to that, because I can understand that.

If I had one concern about Backman, that would be it. Ideally I'd like him to fill out more.

But Dekeyser (maybe falsely) gives me hope that if you are tall, smart, and mobile, you can overcome being slight.

I just think he has a lot of potential and could maybe break onto the scene. For me at the end of the season, I thought he looked really good. Both offensively and defensively. But it's a gamble nonetheless.

Could be Babs was talking him up to boost his value. Could also be he's excited about him as a player. No clue, could see either one being true.

Maybe we could do?

Kronwall-Big E
Dekeyser-Marchenko
Ouellet-Smith

I don't know. Hard for me to predict best way to incorporate the kids. Backman is a guy I like, and also has experience logging big minutes.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Why do they have to hit that so soon? Your setting yourself up for failure with way too high a need of expectation. Just off the top of my head the only player that was ready from draft to fit into a top 2 role is Jones but he comes with a asterisk in that his partner is elite so you cannot definatively say he is a top 2 defender. I give you that he is at least a top 4 defender right now with upside.

Marchenko I believe right now (assuming injury didn't really hurt his developement) is a second pairing defender and solves a handedness issue for us. I believe he would start on the third pairing and work his way up. But like xo (who also should imho start the season with the wings) he is solid makes smart plays and safe plays. He also granted in limited appearances has a hell of a lot more hockey sense than any of quincey, lashoff, or kindl.

Sproul could be rushed as a third pairing defender into the nhl next year but it would probably be better for him to "be the man" in the ahl next year and have "first call up status" next year. He definately looks capable of being a pp qb but granted that is with only seeing him 2 times on the second pp.

I believe they both are safe to say that they are top 4 defenders but it is far too foolhardy to call them anything above that until we see how they progress into the nhl. But having a need to force them into a top pairing type of situation immediately is just begging for heartache.

I have no confidence any of them in fact will be such a player in 2-4 years.

why that timeline? well because by then it will be almost 7 or 8 years since we lost rafalski and lidstrom and if we havent replaced them in 8 years we're in deep trouble.

i am honeslty one of the only ones who are putting the brakes on the dmen prospects. all those wishing for stop gaps are doing so under the illusion that at the end of that stop gap(2 years) one of these guys will be ready to play top 3 minutes/roles/responsbilities and thats foolish

thats exactly what i have said over and over. very few dmen come up through the draft and contribute in any meaningful way before 6 years or more post draft, and i dont think we have those guys.

but we still have a huge need both now and for years to come untill such time as these guys, if they ever, hit their stride.

so make a trade for a young top 3 dman who will be here and contribute for 5, 6, 7 years to come.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I have no confidence any of them in fact will be such a player in 2-4 years.

why that timeline? well because by then it will be almost 7 or 8 years since we lost rafalski and lidstrom and if we havent replaced them in 8 years we're in deep trouble.

i am honeslty one of the only ones who are putting the brakes on the dmen prospects. all those wishing for stop gaps are doing so under the illusion that at the end of that stop gap(2 years) one of these guys will be ready to play top 3 minutes/roles/responsbilities and thats foolish

thats exactly what i have said over and over. very few dmen come up through the draft and contribute in any meaningful way before 6 years or more post draft, and i dont think we have those guys.

but we still have a huge need both now and for years to come untill such time as these guys, if they ever, hit their stride.

so make a trade for a young top 3 dman who will be here and contribute for 5, 6, 7 years to come.

I don't think it is under the guise that they will be ready for top 3 minutes in 2-3 years, but rather that they are not ready for NHL minutes right now and need another year or two in the AHL developing properly. Though your apprehension isn't ill placed.

 

[odin1981]

I have no confidence any of them in fact will be such a player in 2-4 years.

why that timeline? well because by then it will be almost 7 or 8 years since we lost rafalski and lidstrom and if we havent replaced them in 8 years we're in deep trouble.

i am honeslty one of the only ones who are putting the brakes on the dmen prospects. all those wishing for stop gaps are doing so under the illusion that at the end of that stop gap(2 years) one of these guys will be ready to play top 3 minutes/roles/responsbilities and thats foolish

thats exactly what i have said over and over. very few dmen come up through the draft and contribute in any meaningful way before 6 years or more post draft, and i dont think we have those guys.

but we still have a huge need both now and for years to come untill such time as these guys, if they ever, hit their stride.

so make a trade for a young top 3 dman who will be here and contribute for 5, 6, 7 years to come.

But in your statement that I quoted you said did you think any of our prospects hit top 2 in 2 years. That is why I replied with what I did. I believe both sproul and marchenko (speaking specifically about our rh prospects) will be top 4 capable but it is still way to early in there developement to christen either with top pairing potential.

The last sentence in your reply is just wishful thinking. What foolish team would trade a 25-27 year old top 3 d without it costing us the sun, moon, and stars? No team would. Trading to get a d without having centers just doesn't happen or a dman or prospect to swap with. And with Sheahan up on the club to stay we have exactly 0 centers we can move for a trade. Helm is a bottom six center and that would only fetch a third pairing d.

And most of our center prospects where playing on the wing at gr in the playoffs this year. Or they where moved to center for 1-2 games and then scratched (aa specifically, Janmark was a wing I believe and stayed as a winger but he was on the bottom 6 so he could have been misused or just there weren't any top 6 spots for him to fit in at).

So either we do a d for d swap or we get no players of that type. And fairly certain kronner isn't one of those d so we have to move one of dd or smith or big rig if said team he would waive for, ++, and probably a first rounder to even have a hope of those players.

 

[14ari13]

I have no confidence any of them in fact will be such a player in 2-4 years.

why that timeline? well because by then it will be almost 7 or 8 years since we lost rafalski and lidstrom and if we havent replaced them in 8 years we're in deep trouble.

i am honeslty one of the only ones who are putting the brakes on the dmen prospects. all those wishing for stop gaps are doing so under the illusion that at the end of that stop gap(2 years) one of these guys will be ready to play top 3 minutes/roles/responsbilities and thats foolish

thats exactly what i have said over and over. very few dmen come up through the draft and contribute in any meaningful way before 6 years or more post draft, and i dont think we have those guys.

but we still have a huge need both now and for years to come untill such time as these guys, if they ever, hit their stride.

so make a trade for a young top 3 dman who will be here and contribute for 5, 6, 7 years to come.

We will never replace Lidstrom. That's impossible. Now, what's the realistic replacement?

 

[odin1981]

I don't take offense to that, because I can understand that.

If I had one concern about Backman, that would be it. Ideally I'd like him to fill out more.

But Dekeyser (maybe falsely) gives me hope that if you are tall, smart, and mobile, you can overcome being slight.

I just think he has a lot of potential and could maybe break onto the scene. For me at the end of the season, I thought he looked really good. Both offensively and defensively. But it's a gamble nonetheless.

Could be Babs was talking him up to boost his value. Could also be he's excited about him as a player. No clue, could see either one being true.

Maybe we could do?

Kronwall-Big E
Dekeyser-Marchenko
Ouellet-Smith

I don't know. Hard for me to predict best way to incorporate the kids. Backman is a guy I like, and also has experience logging big minutes.

I'd love those pairings. Backman, I could see after one more year in the ahl if smith or big rig is moved if he puts on 15-20lbs over the next two years (say around 7-10 each year which isn't a stretch). he could have just gotten some atta boys by the coaches and managers so he maintains his motivation and potentially increases it with regards to his purely physical development.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

But in your statement that I quoted you said did you think any of our prospects hit top 2 in 2 years. That is why I replied with what I did. I believe both sproul and marchenko (speaking specifically about our rh prospects) will be top 4 capable but it is still way to early in there developement to christen either with top pairing potential.

The last sentence in your reply is just wishful thinking. What foolish team would trade a 25-27 year old top 3 d without it costing us the sun, moon, and stars? No team would. Trading to get a d without having centers just doesn't happen or a dman or prospect to swap with. And with Sheahan up on the club to stay we have exactly 0 centers we can move for a trade. Helm is a bottom six center and that would only fetch a third pairing d.

And most of our center prospects where playing on the wing at gr in the playoffs this year. Or they where moved to center for 1-2 games and then scratched (aa specifically, Janmark was a wing I believe and stayed as a winger but he was on the bottom 6 so he could have been misused or just there weren't any top 6 spots for him to fit in at).

So either we do a d for d swap or we get no players of that type. And fairly certain kronner isn't one of those d so we have to move one of dd or smith, ++, and probably a first rounder to even have a hope of those players.

what exacatly is the moon and the stars?

is it the brent burns trade? is it the bobby ryan trade? trades seem to follow a relatively predictable pattern

what about tatar, smith and something small for big buff? he is a 29 year old top pairing rt hand shot dmen who can put up 45plus pts a season.

i think when people claim the prices are thru the roof and name off it costing us mantha and nyquist and dekeyser and mrazek and holland and ilitch they do so for dramatic effect

it will cost us someone we dont want to see moved but so what. if it makes us truly better at a position of greatest weakness without 100% crippling us(that would be mantha, nyquist, jurco, sproul, ouellete, mrazek, tatar, pulkinnen, sheahan, athanasiou, marchenko, backman, bertuzzi, nastusiuk all in one trade) it is worth it to me

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

We will never replace Lidstrom. That's impossible. Now, what's the realistic replacement?

no, i dont mean the player, i mean the role and yes we HAVE to replace the role of top pairing 25 minute a night 45plus pts a season ppqb

 

[Winger98]

what exacatly is the moon and the stars?

is it the brent burns trade? is it the bobby ryan trade? trades seem to follow a relatively predictable pattern

what about tatar, smith and something small for big buff? he is a 29 year old top pairing rt hand shot dmen who can put up 45plus pts a season.

i think when people claim the prices are thru the roof and name off it costing us mantha and nyquist and dekeyser and mrazek and holland and ilitch they do so for dramatic effect

it will cost us someone we dont want to see moved but so what. if it makes us truly better at a position of greatest weakness without 100% crippling us(that would be mantha, nyquist, jurco, sproul, ouellete, mrazek, tatar, pulkinnen, sheahan, athanasiou, marchenko, backman, bertuzzi, nastusiuk all in one trade) it is worth it to me

I'd do that trade for Byfuglien. I know my leeriness of trades comes from the rumored offers we've put on the table and been turned down on. The original rumored offer of Sheahan, Jurco, 2nd was something I've always believed to be better than what St. Louis offer for J-Bo. My feelings didn't change when Nyquist and/or Tatar were thrown into that rumor, too. There was the constant courting of Vancouver to woo Edler out where they just kept asking for more and more. And then there is the trade Holland actually pulls off that brought us Legwand. Prices seem high for us.

 

[odin1981]

what exacatly is the moon and the stars?

is it the brent burns trade? is it the bobby ryan trade? trades seem to follow a relatively predictable pattern

what about tatar, smith and something small for big buff? he is a 29 year old top pairing rt hand shot dmen who can put up 45plus pts a season.

i think when people claim the prices are thru the roof and name off it costing us mantha and nyquist and dekeyser and mrazek and holland and ilitch they do so for dramatic effect

it will cost us someone we dont want to see moved but so what. if it makes us truly better at a position of greatest weakness without 100% crippling us(that would be mantha, nyquist, jurco, sproul, ouellete, mrazek, tatar, pulkinnen, sheahan, athanasiou, marchenko, backman, bertuzzi, nastusiuk all in one trade) it is worth it to me

Getting a soon to be entering into their prime top 2 d would cost us at least one of our commonly accepted untouchable top 4 prospects, a top 4 d right now, and our 2015 first at the bare minimum.

Big buff ain't a good defender. He is a excellant net front power forward but given his comments I feel he lacks heart and dedication needed to go where he excels at. Bobby Ryan is a Rick Nash type of player good to very good in the regular season but not a playoff performer. And we just aren't gonna see any organization stupid enough willing to give away a top pairing d. Brent Burns is a good forward when paired with a dish master playmaker but he is gonna get exposed as a defender once again this coming year when he moves back to d.

And none of the above mentioned players in my last paragraph are the types of players you break the prospect bank for.

 

[Mister Ed]

On the main board, the asking price for Byfuglien is Smith + Tatar + 2nd 2015. Feels a tad high to me.

 

[InjuredChoker]

On the main board, the asking price for Byfuglien is Smith + Tatar + 2nd 2015. Feels a tad high to me.

it's high price but also fairly fair price imo. legit top 3-2 dman who is in control for 2 more years.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Getting a soon to be entering into their prime top 2 d would cost us at least one of our commonly accepted untouchable top 4 prospects, a top 4 d right now, and our 2015 first at the bare minimum.

Big buff ain't a good defender. He is a excellant net front power forward but given his comments I feel he lacks heart and dedication needed to go where he excels at. Bobby Ryan is a Rick Nash type of player good to very good in the regular season but not a playoff performer. And we just aren't gonna see any organization stupid enough willing to give away a top pairing d. Brent Burns is a good forward when paired with a dish master playmaker but he is gonna get exposed as a defender once again this coming year when he moves back to d.

And none of the above mentioned players in my last paragraph are the types of players you break the prospect bank for.

basically you are finding faults with every single potential player we could be interested in and yet, i woudl suggest those faults are ten times worse in the free agent market and still dont solve a need beyond 12 months

no, teams wont move subban or pieteraneglo or doughty or keith or weber or suter but beyond that list their are not many if any other top pairing dmen who dont have faults(some wider than others). that shouldnt stop us from seeing the value in the player, espescially when compared to what we currently have

big buff, green, yandle, ehrhoff, edler are all miles ahead of every dmen we have on roster or in the system outside of kronwall and will remain that way untill such time a player emerges from within our organization that can reliably(more then once) prove to be better.

what is breaking the bank? what does that mean? dont throw that out there unless you can argue what that means, players specific, needs and capabilities and projections specific, otherwise its just hyperbole

 

[Vladdy84]

On the main board, the asking price for Byfuglien is Smith + Tatar + 2nd 2015. Feels a tad high to me.

Helm+Kindl+Joker and a 3rd.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

i think when people claim the prices are thru the roof and name off it costing us mantha and nyquist and dekeyser and mrazek and holland and ilitch they do so for dramatic effect

I think when people claim that's the asking price, they're quoting the (completely crazy) trade rumors board. Some poor goobers wanted Mantha+ for Edler, for example.

 

[SoupNazi]

what exacatly is the moon and the stars?

is it the brent burns trade? is it the bobby ryan trade? trades seem to follow a relatively predictable pattern

what about tatar, smith and something small for big buff? he is a 29 year old top pairing rt hand shot dmen who can put up 45plus pts a season.

i think when people claim the prices are thru the roof and name off it costing us mantha and nyquist and dekeyser and mrazek and holland and ilitch they do so for dramatic effect

it will cost us someone we dont want to see moved but so what. if it makes us truly better at a position of greatest weakness without 100% crippling us(that would be mantha, nyquist, jurco, sproul, ouellete, mrazek, tatar, pulkinnen, sheahan, athanasiou, marchenko, backman, bertuzzi, nastusiuk all in one trade) it is worth it to me

When was the last time that happened?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

When was the last time that happened?

never, i was being fictious

but losing all those players would in fact be "gutting" our future while anything less then that is not and the less and less you give, the further away from "gutting" it becomes

so if giving all 14 of those guys away in one deal is in fact gutting, then giving up 1/14th to 1/7th of it is cleary not

 

[SoupNazi]

never, i was being fictious

but losing all those players would in fact be "gutting" our future while anything less then that is not and the less and less you give, the further away from "gutting" it becomes

so if giving all 14 of those guys away in one deal is in fact gutting, then giving up 1/14th to 1/7th of it is cleary not

And you think any one of those guys straight up gets you any of your wish list? I don't. You're looking at two of them, plus a pick, and frankly, some of the guys you're naming just aren't that good.

Depending on who you're trading, giving up as few as three of those guys could gut our future. Especially, you know, if they become better than the youngish top 3 defenseman you want.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

And you think any one of those guys straight up gets you any of your wish list? I don't. You're looking at two of them, plus a pick, and frankly, some of the guys you're naming just aren't that good.

Depending on who you're trading, giving up as few as three of those guys could gut our future. Especially, you know, if they become better than the youngish top 3 defenseman you want.

i would move 2, i dont think any of the guys i listed though would cost the best two(nyquist and mantha)

they're all better then dekeyser, ericsson, smith, kindl, lashoff, sproul, ouellete, marchenko, backman, almquist jensen(all our potential 2014 not named kronwall) and better then boyle, markov, gilbert or any potential ufa dman

i bellieve you could put a nice pkcg together with tatar and smith and a pick/lower prospect

 

[odin1981]

basically you are finding faults with every single potential player we could be interested in and yet, i woudl suggest those faults are ten times worse in the free agent market and still dont solve a need beyond 12 months

no, teams wont move subban or pieteraneglo or doughty or keith or weber or suter but beyond that list their are not many if any other top pairing dmen who dont have faults(some wider than others). that shouldnt stop us from seeing the value in the player, espescially when compared to what we currently have

big buff[/ B], green, yandle, ehrhoff, edler are all miles ahead of every dmen we have on roster or in the system outside of kronwall and will remain that way untill such time a player emerges from within our organization that can reliably(more then once) prove to be better.

what is breaking the bank? what does that mean? dont throw that out there unless you can argue what that means, players specific, needs and capabilities and projections specific, otherwise its just hyperbole

All the bolded are moves just to make a move that while they might improve a aspect they backstep equally with regressions in other areas. Erhoff while dependable and steady while being locked up to a good price for a long term isn't a fit unless we move a lh d player back to them and that would basically be DD and I would rather keep him than get erhoff.

Breaking the bank is giving too much to get back one piece. With the current era we are in (2nd lockout I'll call it) internal development is at premium. The key with that is not to keep everyone however it is to use the franchise's talent while you still have them under rfa status and then towards the end of there rfa time (say 1-2 years remaining if they are not in your long term plans move them for assets you need or first 3 round picks back to develope future talent to keep/exploit while they are in cost controlled years.

Giving a potential 25-35 consistant goal scorer with 2nd line upside, a pick in the first three rounds, and a second pairing defender for a #2 with flaws just because he can get shots threw on the pp is way too much especially when you factor in that he is only cost controlled for 2 more years. Then he either turns around and leaves for nothing returned back or you resign him when you have no control on his cost which is inflated because he can produce points reliably.

The only current player that might be available soon at a decent price that I would be interested in is Larsson. He won't cost us a arm and a leg and can be turned around back into a top 4 rh 2 way defender while being cost controlled for the next 3-4 years.

Tatar is someone that I can see us moving on from however right now it is in our best interests to keep hold off for the next 1-2 years to establish a great return for. If in two years say he has 3 20+ goal seasons as a third line scoring player and rounds out his 2 way game just a bit he will command a decent price/player back or will contribute a big part of a multi part deal to get a major player back.

Smith unfortunately hasn't established great value but is oh so close in the next 2 years if he gets some pp time and puts up 30-40 points each year we could very well be looking at being able to get a major game changer back from just those 2 (him and tatar) with potentially a 2nd or 3rd round added in.

To trade them now for players with flaws isn't correct in thought process. Give them 1-2 years to increase there value and then we could get a shattenkirk type player back is great asset management.

 

[Mort Divine]

If Smith is putting up 30-40 points and is a consistent contributor, why the hell are we looking at trading him?

If Tatar is scoring 20+ goals as a third liner, why the hell are we looking at trading him?

To get one player who individually may be better than them both?

I don't see trading away players who by keeping in the organization we can start to build some kind of depth that this team lacks as a good move.

Unless we're getting a Weber type player, I don't see sacrificing overall team quality to upgrade one roster spot.

 

[odin1981]

If Smith is putting up 30-40 points and is a consistent contributor, why the hell are we looking at trading him?

If Tatar is scoring 20+ goals as a third liner, why the hell are we looking at trading him?

To get one player who individually may be better than them both?

I don't see trading away players who by keeping in the organization we can start to build some kind of depth that this team lacks as a good move.

Unless we're getting a Weber type player, I don't see sacrificing overall team quality to upgrade one roster spot.

Smith isn't rhd and plays in a rhd position. Tatar is good i like his energy but I believe pulk will be much better and is also a rh shot. So basically you establish value of two players to get a first pairing defender which is a upgrade due to having existing prospects that can replace them that better fit into a format.

A Weber type player would cost much more than those two. I believe a elite #1 d would cost around 2-3 first rounders, a proven top 4 d, and the scoring winger would be a throw in to entice value. However a smart team would more than likely rather have a young center with top 6 potential thrown in.

Granted for the record I'm not in any way saying the two aforementioned players should be moved now but in the next 1-2 years.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

All the bolded are moves just to make a move that while they might improve a aspect they backstep equally with regressions in other areas. Erhoff while dependable and steady while being locked up to a good price for a long term isn't a fit unless we move a lh d player back to them and that would basically be DD and I would rather keep him than get erhoff.

Breaking the bank is giving too much to get back one piece. With the current era we are in (2nd lockout I'll call it) internal development is at premium. The key with that is not to keep everyone however it is to use the franchise's talent while you still have them under rfa status and then towards the end of there rfa time (say 1-2 years remaining if they are not in your long term plans move them for assets you need or first 3 round picks back to develope future talent to keep/exploit while they are in cost controlled years.

Giving a potential 25-35 consistant goal scorer with 2nd line upside, a pick in the first three rounds, and a second pairing defender for a #2 with flaws just because he can get shots threw on the pp is way too much especially when you factor in that he is only cost controlled for 2 more years. Then he either turns around and leaves for nothing returned back or you resign him when you have no control on his cost which is inflated because he can produce points reliably.

The only current player that might be available soon at a decent price that I would be interested in is Larsson. He won't cost us a arm and a leg and can be turned around back into a top 4 rh 2 way defender while being cost controlled for the next 3-4 years.

Tatar is someone that I can see us moving on from however right now it is in our best interests to keep hold off for the next 1-2 years to establish a great return for. If in two years say he has 3 20+ goal seasons as a third line scoring player and rounds out his 2 way game just a bit he will command a decent price/player back or will contribute a big part of a multi part deal to get a major player back.

Smith unfortunately hasn't established great value but is oh so close in the next 2 years if he gets some pp time and puts up 30-40 points each year we could very well be looking at being able to get a major game changer back from just those 2 (him and tatar) with potentially a 2nd or 3rd round added in.

To trade them now for players with flaws isn't correct in thought process. Give them 1-2 years to increase there value and then we could get a shattenkirk type player back is great asset management.

ok, to me it seems like you're under the holland spell whereby every red wing has talents beyond their actual ability and the flaws in other players are so much greater because its a myth we all wish to believe is true. tatar has 25-35 goal consistent 2nd line upside? oh come on now. do you know how many top 6 wingers have achieved that(consistent being 3 of past 5 years)? perry, ovie, kessel, kane, st.louis, parise, eberle, hossa, iginla and thats it. Its an incredibly difficult feat to achieve

if you feel these guys will increase their value that in two years you can guarntee they can be traded for young top pairing dmen without any flaws then your welcome to that opinion

i believe their are 5 or 6 such dmen in the entire world(the nhl being the world) and thats about it and the chances tatar or smith ever become equal to their value is o%

identify the 3-5 core young players in the system and trade some of the others to address issues that arent adressed by those 3-5 core players. then continue to build the next core in the years to come

 

[odin1981]

ok, to me it seems like you're under the holland spell whereby every red wing has talents beyond their actual ability and the flaws in other players are so much greater because its a myth we all wish to believe is true. tatar has 25-35 goal consistent 2nd line upside? oh come on now. do you know how many top 6 wingers have achieved that(consistent being 3 of past 5 years)? perry, ovie, kessel, kane, st.louis, parise, eberle, hossa, iginla and thats it. Its an incredibly difficult feat to achieve

if you feel these guys will increase their value that in two years you can guarntee they can be traded for young top pairing dmen without any flaws then your welcome to that opinion

i believe their are 5 or 6 such dmen in the entire world(the nhl being the world) and thats about it and the chances tatar or smith ever become equal to their value is o%

identify the 3-5 core young players in the system and trade some of the others to address issues that arent adressed by those 3-5 core players. then continue to build the next core in the years to come

Trust me I'm no Holland or Babcock fan boy. I believe Holland is better of the two but he still does make panic moves that belay what he says so sometimes he is confusing with his actions. But to get very good to top tier talent for young players that have upside they do have to prove they have somewhat consistent existing value. Given that one year can be hot or cold the assessment I made on Tatar isn't without merit. If he has a Nyquist type hot year and plays 80+ games 31-35 goals isn't out of his realm. You surely wouldn't expect it year in year out and this year he was on pace for around 25 if he got all 82 games to play. So realistically you can say without the outlier hot or cold year he seems to be in the 21-29 potential. If he does this over the course of the next 1-2 years where he has 2 consistent 20+ years including his rookie year which he was on pace for 23-26 he is a established 20 goal scorer that if given a second rfa deal to like 1 year left on his elc for around 2- 2.5 million would maximize a return for him in my eyes.

Smith I might be to hopeful on but if he gets consistent pp time I have no reason at all to doubt he is at least a 30-35 point scorer. So if we wait for 1-2 years on both players we maximize our returns. Ditto for him on a second rfa deal but since he is a defender he could more than likely be in the 2.5-3.5 per year range.

To move both now before they have established consistency in point totals rushes needing to potentially move prospects up to the big leagues too soon in addition to limiting our value of return on both. Sproul could be fine moving up into a sheltared third pairing + pp time role but would more than likely gain more from being a #1 or 2 d in the ahl another year playing 25+ minutes a game instead of 12-18 on our third pairing.

 

[InjuredChoker]

wouldn't mind inquirinq about Andrei Zubarev