Line Combos: How has Sullivan done this year?

How has Sullivan performed this year?


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    47

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,405
77,994
Redmond, WA
Spurred from the Johnson thread, I'm curious for how you think Sullivan has done as the coach this year. I think he's done a really bad job, but I'm curious to see what the consensus is. Just a couple of the good and bad he has done this year:

Good:

1. He has given young players good chances overall and it has benefited the team, especially guys like ZAR and Pettersson.
2. He has been overall good with his goalie usage, using DeSmith in a heavier workload at the beginning of the year was smart and he rode a hot Murray when Murray went on that run.
3. He has shown accountability for some players.
4. He was patient with Rust (and Guentzel to a lesser extent, since there were questions about him earlier in the season), which has led to the Penguins creating a fantastic 1st line and Rust with the best run of his career.

Bad:

1. He has not shown accountability for players who really need to be shown some accountability, he's not consistent with who he disciplines.
2. He has refused to make tough decisions on obvious problems, such as Kessel on the top PP unit right now.
3. His constant line jumbling has made generating any chemistry excessively difficult.
4. He keeps sending out Jack Johnson in a top-4 role behind Malkin. Even if you assume that JR is forcing Sullivan to keep him in, Sullivan doesn't have to use him like that.
 
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Slaaapshuter

Registered User
May 10, 2015
1,189
849
He's not the number one problem (that would be JR probably) but he certainly hasn't done himself or the team any favours.

But in fairness also, the lineup decisions is likely made by the coaching staff as a whole, not only Sullivan. The same likely goes for defense and offensive strategy.

It might be all Sullivan, but we can't know.
 

kladorf2005

Registered User
Apr 20, 2018
1,403
1,614
Not only has he done a really bad job this year, but he did a bad job last year in the playoffs too. During the 2 cup runs, he ALWAYS made at least one lineup change after a playoff loss. Last year, not so much.

It's been a tale of 2 Sullivan's - good Sullivan left before this abysmal season even began.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,020
32,194
My take is that Sid and G are particular, like to play a certain way and in a certain type of offensively dynamic system and that makes it hard on any coach...they want to have fun during the season and not play boring hockey like the ‘95 NJD...that makes it hard for any coach to install a system that might be more conducive to winning in the RS but the coach has to be respected by them and they have to agree with and buy into what he wants to do...

I think Sully has burned some bridges there with his approach and they’ve for lack of a better word tuned him out...I’m not sure he has any good ideas left but whatever he’s trying doesn’t work...I also think he’s made it hard to incorporate newer players because he switches everything around at the drop of a hat...

So I don’t put a lot of the issues on him in particular, so he’s not “bad” in some objective sense...Hes just bad for this team right now...I just think his ideas have gotten stale, he’s not inspiring the group and he needs to go...
 

AverageJoeFan

Mad cat
Feb 15, 2018
1,913
585
Pittsburgh
Awful. There isn't any consistency in within a game. He keeps trying to juggle the lines for that "spark' but it just isn't there.

Now, you could say he has been dealt a bit of a shit hand in some regards. Injuries and otherwise have been rough on occasions, but there isn't one part of the line-up that reads consistency. Spare Jake and Sid. Even there he's tinkered some.

One other thing that really bothers me is that this feels a bit like Tomlin. Malkin has been way off kilter. To @pixiesfanyo point that he COULD be really hard on them behind closed doors. Only thing is it sure doesn't show on the ice....
 
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EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
12,697
12,034
I want to say average, but it's bad.

Multiple posters here have detailed what lines would work.

Then weeks later the lines are tried, find success, then get broken up again.

It's not good when we legit have better ideas than those paid to have ideas.
 
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Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
I want to say average, but it's bad.

Multiple posters here have detailed what lines would work.

Then weeks later the lines are tried, find success, then get broken up again.

It's not good when we legit have better ideas than those paid to have ideas.

Which lines are you talking about?
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,341
24,739
I mean the team isn't playing well and there are defensive, special teams, neutral zone and overall effort issues that are at least partly the responsibility of the coaching staff to drill into the players. And yeah, it's the players' job to execute so it is mostly on them.

He might just not be the right coach for this team anymore.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,475
73,648
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Not sure how people expect Sullivan to coach out terrible give aways and lack of attention.

Sully is a huge video guy. If you don’t think team is rewatching these errors you’re kidding yourself.

This is like trying to say Sid needs to be a better captain due to our problems this year.

Sullivan’s system sucked to start the year. He adjusted and with player buy in they looked great.

The fact that we are in a playoff spot with our only other puck move besides Letang being out the majority of the season is impressive and look at the strides of younger players like Simon, ZAR and Pettersson. Those are the things Sullivan controls. He’s a top five coach in the league IMO.

I also think Sullivan would scratch JJ if it wasn’t for Rutherford. As he has done with Daley, Cole, Maatta, Dumo, etc over the past few years.
 

Trade

Guentzel is ELITE
Apr 13, 2015
7,077
6,294
Extremely underwhelming for what the expectation are. Yeah we all know JJ is bad blah blah blah...but the fact that Sullivan keeps playing him as if he’s a 3/4 Dman just shows the incompetence of Sully. Sheltering JJ and playing him in a 3rd pairing role should minimize his blunders and he should never be on the ice with Sid or Geno. EVER. Usage is completely out of JJ’s hands no matter how much you try to pin our shortcomings on him.


Our roster is not as bad as we’ve been playing. Yeah we could use a LW and a replacement for JJ, but if that isn’t happening, you have to play with what you have and put your team in the best position to win the game which clearly has not been happening, and that has to fall on Sully’s shoulders.

Edit: Obviously it’s up to the players to commit and execute the game plan, but there is just much to be desired from this squad.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,475
73,648
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Extremely underwhelming for what the expectation are. Yeah we all know JJ is bad blah blah blah...but the fact that Sullivan keeps playing him as if he’s a 3/4 Dman just shows the incompetence of Sully. Sheltering JJ and playing him in a 3rd pairing role should minimize his blunders and he should never be on the ice with Sid or Geno. EVER. Usage is completely out of JJ’s hands no matter how much you try to pin our shortcomings on him.


Our roster is not as bad as we’ve been playing. Yeah we could use a LW and a replacement for JJ, but if that isn’t happening, you have to play with what you have and put your team in the best position to win the game which clearly has not been happening, and that has to fall on Sully’s shoulders.

Edit: Obviously it’s up to the players to commit and execute the game plan, but there is just much to be desired from this squad.

I guarantee Sullivan would play JJ like that if it wasn’t for Rutherford not giving him anyone better and Rutherford not constantly defending the contract to the media.
 
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Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
104,169
5,248
Essex
Average, we're still putting wins together and looking at getting into the play-offs but some questionable decisions have been made.
 

Will Hunting

Immortal Adams
Dec 14, 2011
6,942
2,030
European Union
Bad job. But it´s not easy to bench players with history and some big contracts tho. I am not sure if there is a coach in this world who would bench Kessel or Hornqvist, even if those would be good moves. JJ is other story, at least he should minimize his impact if he can´t bench him. Same with Kessel. He is giving bad players too big of a roles, imo. Also, mishandling powerplay, juggling lines, not playing Blueger and Rikkola now etc. He is doing bad, but some players are doing even worse.
 

Pens1566

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
18,377
7,216
WV
Bad. Too much talent on this roster (regardless of whatever JR has screwed up) to be chasing a WC spot this late in the season.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,518
46,235
Average.

He's limited a bit because of the roster composition, but I also think he's made some questionable decisions even with better options available, and whether it's entirely his fault or not, his teams have looked unprepared for too many games this year for me to give him a "good".
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Funny seeing this poll and how much people shit all over me with my criticisms.

Apples.gif
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
I'm not super high on Sullivan right now but honestly I do think you probably have to clean out his staff and give him another shot before you pull the trigger. Dunno how pleased he would be with a group foisted on him by ownership, though. So... yeah. I wouldn't be brokenhearted if they just sent the whole crew packing though. Sometimes you can be a good coach but just at the end of your shelf life.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,405
77,994
Redmond, WA
I'm not super high on Sullivan right now but honestly I do think you probably have to clean out his staff and give him another shot before you pull the trigger. Dunno how pleased he would be with a group foisted on him by ownership, though. So... yeah. I wouldn't be brokenhearted if they just sent the whole crew packing though. Sometimes you can be a good coach but just at the end of your shelf life.

Is that not what they have now? Martin was brought in under Bylsma. Recchi, Gonchar and Tocchet were cronies of different Penguins players/former players. Buckley came up through the minors. If anything, Sullivan has only had a group "foisted on him by ownership".
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Is that not what they have now? Martin was brought in under Bylsma. Recchi, Gonchar and Tocchet were cronies of different Penguins players/former players. Buckley came up through the minors. If anything, Sullivan has only had a group "foisted on him by ownership".
Tocchet and Martin also got him back 2 back cups as his assistants.

So acting like they were just some f***ing cronies is a stretch. I am not a fan of Rex and think he's an old boys club hire and I have complained about it since.

But Sully, he's had his issues the whole time as well. He's not some perfect coach either. The issues this season are also a lot of his fault and of course Rutherford's.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,405
77,994
Redmond, WA
Tocchet and Martin also got him back 2 back cups as his assistants.

So acting like they were just some ****ing cronies is a stretch. I am not a fan of Rex and think he's an old boys club hire and I have complained about it since.

But Sully, he's had his issues the whole time as well. He's not some perfect coach either. The issues this season are also a lot of his fault and of course Rutherford's.

Winning 2 cups doesn't mean that Tocchet and Martin weren't cronies foisted on him by ownership.
 
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