how good was peak Martin Havlat?

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’ll say this: if i’m marty havlat i have a marian hossa voodoo doll.

i get that it’s pro sports and you have to be better than the other guy if you want to play, but just bad luck to be a hotshot young player and be buried behind two borderline HHOFers at the same position, and then later when you are a vet helping to lead an emerging young juggernaut there’s hossa again reaching free agency in the same year as you. you can’t fault chicago for upgrading, of course, but i think havlat’s career looks quite different if he doesn’t cross paths with hossa twice.

ftr, havlat was very good in the playoffs in chicago until he got hurt in the west finals on a kronwall hit.

 

[Troubadour]

Maybe during the regular season, when play tightened up in the playoffs he ended with 0 points in 4 games.

Play usually tightens up a couple of games prior to the playoffs. Again, thank you for reminding us of that remarkable point streak, and thank you for reminding us that the following twenty-year-old Havlat's point drought could have had something to do with that ugly hit.

You excel at accomplishing the perfect opposite of what you aim for

 

[NyQuil]

He’s also famous for kicking opposing players on two separate occasions.

 

[Troubadour]

He’s also famous for kicking opposing players on two separate occasions.

Thus earning a nickname "Kicking Bird". Was it in the balls in both instances?

 

[streitz]

Play usually tightens up a couple of games prior to the playoffs. Again, thank you for reminding us of that remarkable point streak, and thank you for reminding us that the following twenty-year-old Havlat's point drought could have had something to do with that ugly hit.

You excel at accomplishing the perfect opposite of what you aim for

I seriously don't get what your point is.

He had 0 points in the playoffs in question, he usually sucked in the playoffs apparently with the exception of 2009 which I didn't watch so I won't take anything away from him there(he has good stats in 2006 aswell).

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think he was a talented offensive player and legit 1st liner in terms of ability, but I'd say even at his absolute peak he was a 2nd tier scorer in the league, top 15-20 scorer maybe. If injuries hadn't broken him down repeatedly he'd probably have had a career to be considered one of those Hall of Good scoring wingers a la Milan Hejduk or Marian Gaborik.

 

[FerrisRox]

Wasn't a fan honestly, just unremarkable in every sense aside from some stickwork followed by turtling.

Considering he was one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, this is a very odd thing to say about him.

If you think his skating was "unremarkable" you clearly didn't pay close attention to him at all.

 

[FerrisRox]

Looking at his stats he lead a couple weak chicago squads in scoring, that happens all the time on non playoff teams.

Except the 2008-09 Hawks team that he led in scoring did make the playoffs, and he led them in scoring there too.

 

[streitz]

Except the 2008-09 Hawks team that he led in scoring did make the playoffs, and he led them in scoring there too.

Then they got rid of him since they got an actual hockey player in Hossa.

 

[Troubadour]

i’ll say this: if i’m marty havlat i have a marian hossa voodoo doll.

i get that it’s pro sports and you have to be better than the other guy if you want to play, but just bad luck to be a hotshot young player and be buried behind two borderline HHOFers at the same position, and then later when you are a vet helping to lead an emerging young juggernaut there’s hossa again reaching free agency in the same year as you. you can’t fault chicago for upgrading, of course, but i think havlat’s career looks quite different if he doesn’t cross paths with hossa twice.

ftr, havlat was very good in the playoffs in chicago until he got hurt in the west finals on a kronwall hit.

Interesting take.

Here's another:

For the Blackhawks, Havlat peaked in 08/09, scoring 77 points in 81 games. 29 goals, 48 assists.

Hossa with Chicago peaked at... 77 points in 81 games. 29 goals, 48 assists.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

not specific to this thread, but here's a wacky hypothesis. people who drop in on threads all over this and other forums on hfboards (and everywhere else on the internet, it seems) to bluster opinions as facts, repeatedly, without making arguments or showing their reasoning or giving evidence, and reasserting the same debatable point over and over again without actually debating, instead of thinking about these people as addicted to arguing on the internet, or lacking critical reasoning skills, or a waste of everyone's time, i tend to think of these people as employees of hfboards, tasked with driving up traffic. because nothing solicits multiple responses, and therefore drives up banner ad revenue, like repeated inflammatory statements from posters who seem immune to considering counterarguments.

anywho,

Interesting take.

Here's another:

For the Blackhawks, Havlat peaked in 08/09, scoring 77 points in 81 games. 29 goals, 48 assists.

Hossa with Chicago peaked at... 77 points in 81 games. 29 goals, 48 assists.

chicago havlat was seriously underrated, but come on. marian hossa was also a top 3 defensive winger in the league.

 

[Troubadour]

Easy

I meant to point out it was an interesting, almost mystical coincidence, to expound on your post which noticed how their careers were intertwined and kinda rubbing against one another.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Nothing special, average scorer who wasn't great in the playoffs. Chippy, I remember him getting into some slashing or spearing incident with a flyers player in 2004 but don't remember who.


Wasn't a fan honestly, just unremarkable in every sense aside from some stickwork followed by turtling.

This is a terrible take.

 

[Satastic]

Then they got rid of him since they got an actual hockey player in Hossa.

Did Havlat kill your dog or something, you seem to have a very irrational hate for him

 

[Langdon Alger]

Then they got rid of him since they got an actual hockey player in Hossa.

Havlat had 161 points in 172 regular season games in Chicago, along with 15 points in 16 playoff games. If you don’t like him, fine, but stop acting like he was a horrible player. He wasn’t. He was a very skilled player who had major injury issues.

 

[Langdon Alger]

So in other words he wasnt't good in the playoffs outside of one run in 05-06.

He was good in 2003 with 11 points in 18 games and in 2009 with 15 points in 16 games. He had some bad playoffs like in 2004 where had just 3 assists in 7 games, but he was alright overall with 52 points in 75 playoff games. Left you wanting more though.

 

[streitz]

Havlat had 161 points in 172 regular season games in Chicago, along with 15 points in 16 playoff games. If you don’t like him, fine, but stop acting like he was a horrible player. He wasn’t. He was a very skilled player who had major injury issues.

Not a fan of players known for kicking with skates or slashing people in the face.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Not a fan of players known for kicking with skates or slashing people in the face.

Fair enough, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a skilled player. I got sick of his antics at times too. There’s no excuse for what he did to Recchi or when he kicked two guys I believe it was, but to say he was unremarkable in every sense just shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m guessing he never played for your favourite team or for a team you’ve watched much. He had a lot of skill.

 

[billybudd]

I resent the "soft" generalization for any player, and especially for European players, but it applies to Havlat. Without looking into it deeply, I remember his career as a more injured, slightly lesser version of Thomas Vanek.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Then they got rid of him since they got an actual hockey player in Hossa.

I always thought this series of moves was interesting, because it represented a completely closed loop where Markus Naslund's NHL retirement allowed Henrik Zetterberg to get a proper first-liner's contract.

Naslund left the Rangers for Sweden
The Rangers signed Marian Gaborik away from the Wild
The Wild signed Marty Havlat away from the Hawks
The Hawks signed Marian Hossa aways from the Wings
The Wings gave Henrik Zetterberg a big raise.

This is probably what the NHL intended when they instituted the cap - everyone gets a star if they want one.

 

[streitz]

Fair enough, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a skilled player. I got sick of his antics at times too. There’s no excuse for what he did to Recchi or when he kicked two guys I believe it was, but to say he was unremarkable in every sense just shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m guessing he never played for your favourite team or for a team you’ve watched much. He had a lot of skill.

I never said he wasn't skilled I said he wasn't that noteworthy, and no offense to him aside from leading a couple bad teams in scoring and being injured a lot he never did much.

 

[streitz]

I always thought this series of moves was interesting, because it represented a completely closed loop where Markus Naslund's NHL retirement allowed Henrik Zetterberg to get a proper first-liner's contract.

Naslund left the Rangers for Sweden
The Rangers signed Marian Gaborik away from the Wild
The Wild signed Marty Havlat away from the Hawks
The Hawks signed Marian Hossa aways from the Wings
The Wings gave Henrik Zetterberg a big raise.

This is probably what the NHL intended when they instituted the cap - everyone gets a star if they want one.

Parity in a nutshell, another reason I'm not a fan of the new NHL.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I never said he wasn't skilled I said he wasn't that noteworthy, and no offense to him aside from leading a couple bad teams in scoring and being injured a lot he never did much.

Well, injuries were a big part of that. He missed a lot of time from 2005-2008 where he was 24-27. Had he been healthy for those three years, he likely puts up pretty big numbers. He also played behind Alfie and Hossa for most of his time in Ottawa, so he had guys like Fisher and Smolinski as his centres. It would have been nice to see him with a really good centreman. Not sure who he played with after he left Ottawa.

I mean, I’m likely not going to change your mind since you seem to think he’s average, and obviously you hated how he played, but he’s still better than you’re giving him credit for.

 

[streitz]

but he’s still better than you’re giving him credit for.

He probably is, but he's not the type of player anyone should gush over regardless.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't remember too much of Havlat other than getting crunched by Kronwall in the playoffs with the Hawks and then thinking in the back of my head that he moved from team to team much more than he actually did after looking at his stats.

He must've been very good or possibly elite at some point. I can't remember what year it was (probably somewhere between 2004 and 2009), but I clearly remember watching the first round of an NHL draft where Martin Havlat was essentially the benchmark that all the forward picks were measured against. At one point, one of the commentators said something to the effect of "Wow, lots of Martin Havlats in this draft."