how good was peak Martin Havlat?

[Sensinitis]

the gaborik Jr is definitely a good one

 

[Sensinitis]

As a matter of fact, he could get scary good in the playoffs. I remember him completely obliterating the Lightnings in spring 2006, scoring ten points (six goals) in five games.

He was just as streaky come playoffs as he was during the regular season.

yeah I remember that. that was really one of those times, against TB, when it felt like he was one of the best offensive players out there

 

[streitz]

As a matter of fact, he could get scary good in the playoffs. I remember him completely obliterating the Lightnings in spring 2006, scoring ten points (six goals) in five games.

He was just as streaky come playoffs as he was during the regular season.

So in other words he wasnt't good in the playoffs outside of one run in 05-06.

 

[Troubadour]

So in other words he wasnt't good in the playoffs outside of one run in 05-06.

So in other words, he was pretty good, if you consider the fact he spent most of his Senators series on the second or third line.

As a rookie, in a sweep against the Maple Leafs in 2001, he recorded no point, playing 14 minutes a game. The best scorer on his team (Hossa) had 2 points, playing 19 minutes a night.

As a sophomore, he played 16:20 minutes a game and scored 7 points in 12 games, which means he was the fourth most productive player on his team, right after the first line which saw considerably more ice time.

In 2003, just when he got the ice time that was comparable with the first line players, he co-led his team scoring in the series against the Isles (outscoring Alfredsson), then again finished fourth in the other two series with considerably smaller minutes (15:51 and 16:09 on average).

In 2004, Sens lost the first round series against the Maple Leafs. Havlat had only 3 assists in 7 games, but again, he finished third on his team. The leading scorer was Hossa with 4 points. And again, Hossa played 21 minutes a game. Havlat? 16:10.

Basically, it all comes down to the fact the Sens tried to work him in rather slowly. Whenever he got minutes comparable with the guys on the first line, he kept up with them or outscored them, generally playing with much weaker support.

Then he had a decent year with the Hawks, although he was kinda past it by then.

All in all, the basic stats together with you make him look far worse than he actually was. Vadim was spot on saying the Sens should have been more rushy with him, but looking at his medical record, who knows.

 

[VancouverFanInNYC]

I don't post often but was intrigued enough to opine since the title frames an interesting question. To clarify, Havlat's 'peak' was never all that impressive but his 'trajectory' as a 19 - 22 year old made him one of the most coveted young forwards in the game. His value came from the fact that he was a great player on a great team early on in his career, making him a blue chip commodity and thought of so highly that up until they were 25-ish, Havlat was seen (hands-down) as the best player in that 1999 draft class over both Sedins and Barrett Jackman (another early high-flier).

Havlat's value probably peaked as a 21 or 22 year old ironically as he never hit the heights people expected of. Unfortunately it was a succession of valleys and troughs due to injuries but if you extrapolated his early-on production, it was not crazy to think he would have a similar career to a Hossa or an (uninjured) Gaborik. A modern day comparison could be a guy like Evgeny Kuznetsov, a player with immediate early-on impact on a good team, which was key. It wasn't like Havlat was gifted minutes and simply expected to drive offense at all costs - Ottawa had an embarrassment of riches around Havlat's time with Yashin (pre-trade), Hossa, Alfredsson, Bonk, Spezza upfront as well as Chara and Redden on the back-end. They were a contender and Havlat (third last drafted player in the first round) slotted right in as a 19 year old (something even Spezza couldn't do) and was an immediate / clear contributor. Pre-2005, if Havlat was offered straight-up for either Sedin, every rational person in Vancouver would have made that trade - Havlat was that highly-valued back then and by far the best player of that 1999 draft class early-on.

 

[Troubadour]

I don't post often but was intrigued enough to opine since the title frames an interesting question. To clarify, Havlat's 'peak' was never all that impressive but his 'trajectory' as a 19 - 22 year old made him one of the most coveted young forwards in the game.

He had a couple of upswings where he looked really, really good. One of them was the spring of 2006 after which he became a hot free agent item. Signed by Blackhawks for fat dough.

His Blackhawks debut saw him score four points (2+2) against the Predators. The very next game, he went 1+1 in a losing game against the Blue Jackets. Another 2-point game followed against the Predators. The very next, losing game, he scored 2 goals against the Blues. Added 2 assists against the Avs in the very next game.

After five games, he led the scoring race with 12 points. Got injured in the 7th game, leading the race with 13 points in 7 games. In his first five or six games for the Blackhawks, Havlat was the new best player in the league.

After the first injury, he missed 19 games. Came back against the Wild, scoring 3 points (2+1). Followed with 2 points (1+1) against the Oilers.

That's 18 points in 9 games.

Despite playing only 56 games, Havlat won the team scoring by 16 points. The second most productive guy on Blackhawks scored a ridiculous total of 41 points. Patrick Sharp, who was of the same age as Havlat, scored 35 points in 80 games.

He did have an injury-riddled peak, but when Havlat was good, Blackhawks were a wreck. By the time they got good, Havlat was a wreck.

 

[streitz]

So in other words, he was pretty good, if you consider the fact he spent most of his Senators series on the second or third line.

As a rookie, in a sweep against the Maple Leafs in 2001, he recorded no point, playing 14 minutes a game. The best scorer on his team (Hossa) had 2 points, playing 19 minutes a night.

As a sophomore, he played 16:20 minutes a game and scored 7 points in 12 games, which means he was the fourth most productive player on his team, right after the first line which saw considerably more ice time.

In 2003, just when he got the ice time that was comparable with the first line players, he co-led his team scoring in the series against the Isles (outscoring Alfredsson), then again finished fourth in the other two series with considerably smaller minutes (15:51 and 16:09 on average).

In 2004, Sens lost the first round series against the Maple Leafs. Havlat had only 3 assists in 7 games, but again, he finished third on his team. The leading scorer was Hossa with 4 points. And again, Hossa played 21 minutes a game. Havlat? 16:10.

Basically, it all comes down to the fact the Sens tried to work him in rather slowly. Whenever he got minutes comparable with the guys on the first line, he kept up with them or outscored them, generally playing with much weaker support.

Then he had a decent year with the Hawks, although he was kinda past it by then.

All in all, the basic stats together with you make him look far worse than he actually was. Vadim was spot on saying the Sens should have been more rushy with him, but looking at his medical record, who knows.

That's a really long post for a soft mediocre scorer.

 

[Troubadour]

That's a really long post for a soft mediocre poster.

That post was for you

 

[NyQuil]

Nothing special, average scorer who wasn't great in the playoffs. Chippy, I remember him getting into some slashing or spearing incident with a flyers player in 2004 but don't remember who.

Wasn't a fan honestly, just unremarkable in every sense aside from some stickwork followed by turtling.

It was Mark Recchi and the subsequent game was the most penalized game of all-time (at the time) and led to Jason Spezza becoming the most penalized player in a single game in Senators history.

I think most would agree that Havlat was the most skilled of the three RWers but could play in a sort of disinterested and less intense manner than the two-way forces that Alfie and Hossa were.

He was ridiculously fast, to the point of using him for shorthanded breakaways by lobbing pucks down the ice during the post-lockout season. He made Hossa looks pretty average in the speed department.

In the playoffs, he was particularly deadly against the Flyers. He knocked them out with his Game 6 OT winning goal in 2002 and followed that up with pretty much ending Cechmanek’s career in the following year in 2003 by dekeing him out of his shorts close to the blue line when “Roaming” Cechmanek came out too far to play the puck. The series had been tied 2-2 and that gaffe was both the turning point of the series and in Roman’s tenure with the team.

When decisions had to be made about which RWers to keep, it was very divisive among Sens fans with roughly a third supporting each player.

He was clearly a first line talent playing in a logjam situation and whose career was ultimately limited by injuries when he finally got the ice time and situations his skill warranted.

To say he was unremarkable is a pretty poor memory of the player. He was one of the flashiest and most thrilling players in the league.

 

[streitz]

To say he was unremarkable is a pretty poor memory of the player. He was one of the flashiest and most thrilling players in the league.

I actually watched a fair amount of Senators games after we lost the jets in 96 when they were on tv since I saw them as the biggest underdog team in Canada. So it's not as if I never saw Havlat play. That being said you just mentioned Hossa, who impressed me nearly every time he was on the ice. Ditto for Alfredsson.


People like to try and romanticize every player from their favorite era, especially guys who were injury prone. The OP asked what people thought about Havlat, fair question if he didn't get to watch him play but the truth is Havlat was unremarkable when compared to the rest of the league. Looking at his stats he lead a couple weak chicago squads in scoring, that happens all the time on non playoff teams.

When it was crunch time for the sens in the playoffs though, against the leafs and the Devils in 2003 Havlat was no where to be seen. The guy obviously wasn't a bad player, 600 points in 800 games(rounded up) is pretty good especially during low scoring era's, but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was just another injury prone tweener.

 

[Troubadour]

I actually watched a fair amount of Senators games after we lost the jets in 96 when they were on tv since I saw them as the biggest underdog team in Canada. So it's not as if I never saw Havlat play. That being said you just mentioned Hossa, who impressed me nearly every time he was on the ice. Ditto for Alfredsson.


People like to try and romanticize every player from their favorite era, especially guys who were injury prone. The OP asked what people thought about Havlat, fair question if he didn't get to watch him play but the truth is Havlat was unremarkable when compared to the rest of the league. Looking at his stats he lead a couple weak chicago squads in scoring, that happens all the time on non playoff teams.

When it was crunch time for the sens in the playoffs though, against the leafs and the Devils in 2003 Havlat was no where to be seen. The guy obviously wasn't a bad player, 600 points in 800 games(rounded up) is pretty good especially during low scoring era's, but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was just another injury prone tweener.

And the hunch you have never seen him play grows even stronger.

 

[Troubadour]

He was ridiculously fast, to the point of using him for shorthanded breakaways by lobbing pucks down the ice during the post-lockout season. He made Hossa looks pretty average in the speed department.

EDIT: (I thought) he actually scored two shorthanded goals in one game, although I can't remember against who (because he didn't).

Sorry for a completely obsolete post.

 

[streitz]

And the hunch you have never seen him play grows even stronger.

Shame the hawks got rid of him before they won the cup, guess they didn't want to keep an injury prone floater on board.

 

[knifer]

He was electric at times. A gamebreaker in every sense of the word when he was on. Too bad he was so easily injured.

 

[streitz]

 

[Sensinitis]

He had a couple of upswings where he looked really, really good. One of them was the spring of 2006 after which he became a hot free agent item. Signed by Blackhawks for fat dough.

His Blackhawks debut saw him score four points (2+2) against the Predators. The very next game, he went 1+1 in a losing game against the Blue Jackets. Another 2-point game followed against the Predators. The very next, losing game, he scored 2 goals against the Blues. Added 2 assists against the Avs in the very next game.

After five games, he led the scoring race with 12 points. Got injured in the 7th game, leading the race with 13 points in 7 games. In his first five or six games for the Blackhawks, Havlat was the new best player in the league.

After the first injury, he missed 19 games. Came back against the Wild, scoring 3 points (2+1). Followed with 2 points (1+1) against the Oilers.

That's 18 points in 9 games.

Despite playing only 56 games, Havlat won the team scoring by 16 points. The second most productive guy on Blackhawks scored a ridiculous total of 41 points. Patrick Sharp, who was of the same age as Havlat, scored 35 points in 80 games.

He did have an injury-riddled peak, but when Havlat was good, Blackhawks were a wreck. By the time they got good, Havlat was a wreck.

There you go. That’s the season i was talking about him leading the league in scoring, though for very few games.

 

[Sensinitis]

I actually watched a fair amount of Senators games after we lost the jets in 96 when they were on tv since I saw them as the biggest underdog team in Canada. So it's not as if I never saw Havlat play. That being said you just mentioned Hossa, who impressed me nearly every time he was on the ice. Ditto for Alfredsson.


People like to try and romanticize every player from their favorite era, especially guys who were injury prone. The OP asked what people thought about Havlat, fair question if he didn't get to watch him play but the truth is Havlat was unremarkable when compared to the rest of the league. Looking at his stats he lead a couple weak chicago squads in scoring, that happens all the time on non playoff teams.

When it was crunch time for the sens in the playoffs though, against the leafs and the Devils in 2003 Havlat was no where to be seen. The guy obviously wasn't a bad player, 600 points in 800 games(rounded up) is pretty good especially during low scoring era's, but in the grand scheme of the NHL he was just another injury prone tweener.

Yeah, i’m just not getting any interesting ideas from what you’re saying. You basically weren’t impressed, but you’re trying to paint it as if that’s on havlat being objectively unimpressive, which isn’t really fair as most here disagree with that and it’s your perception alone.

Also, some of what you’re saying just isn’t true, there is evidence he’s had pretty good playoff showings, someone referenced a few ottawa series, there’s the conference final with chicago as well...and the ´romanticizing player from favourite era’ thing, i mean, maybe people do that, maybe sometimes they don’t? I don’t have a favourite era but like i said i did watch havlat play but my memory is foggy from then. And i dont see evidence that the 2000s are generally the era that people love the most, so yeah...

 

[Troubadour]

Thanks for reminding us of Havlat's point streak.

 

[streitz]

Thanks for reminding us of Havlat's point streak.

He had 0 points in the 2001 playoffs when that hit happened.

 

[ted2019]

I really really liked Martin Havlat...my best friend growing up had a Martin Havlat Sens jersey even (I went with a Buffalo Afinogenov...he won)...but he was hurt all the time. He's like Gaborik Jr. but, ya know, hurt.........more...somehow...?

Havlat was the reason that the famous Flyers/Sens brawl happened. He played like a p***y and was afraid to stand up for his actions.

 

[Troubadour]

He had 0 points in the 2001 playoffs when that hit happened.

Sorry to break it to you, but that hit took place in Game 1

 

[streitz]

Havlat was the reason that the famous Flyers/Sens brawl happened. He played like a p***y and was afraid to stand up for his actions.

Basically how I remember him.

 

[streitz]

Sorry to break it to you, but that hit took place in Game 1

Then he played games 2-3-4 while registering 0 points.

 

[Troubadour]

Then he played games 2-3-4 while registering 0 points.

But at the time the hit happened, he was still on a 7-game point streak, which you just reminded us of. Again, thank you very much.

 

[streitz]

But at the time the hit happened, he was still on a 7-game point streak, which you just reminded us of. Again, thank you very much.

Maybe during the regular season, when play tightened up in the playoffs he ended with 0 points in 4 games.