How good was Pat LaFontaine?

[whcanuck]

I was just a young kid when LaFontaine was lighting it up with the Islanders and the Sabres. I remember him retiring after that one year with the Rangers in '97-'98 and I knew he was good but I wasn't old enough to see him/appreciate him in his prime.

From the Youtube clips and highlights I've seen, he seemed very quick and was good at pretty much every offensive skill. For those who saw him play, especially fans of the NY-based teams who probably saw him play on a regular basis, what was he really good at that made him a 90-100 point scorer? Had injuries not forced him into early retirement, how great could he have been for another 5-6 years?

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[streitz]

He was fast, fearless(at taking a hit to make a play/going through traffic) and had good vision and scoring.


I don't really know how you explain him, he was elite at almost everything but wasn't consistent like Lemieux,Gretzky or even Yzerman/Savard/Hawerchuk/Stastny were. It also took him quite a few years to get to an elite level, I remember him being solid for the islanders but not a gamebreaker until the end of his tenure there.

 

[Yatzhee]

Patty was a natural goal scorer, but his biggest strength was his playmaking abilities. Specifically, his passing was second to none, his speed was definitely elite and his uncanny knack to create space, not only for himself, but for others (Molginy comes to mind right away) was just superb.

 

[AmericanDream]

my favorite player all-time.

I loved everything about the way he played the game, he was America's first pure superstar talent. Obviously injuries took a toll on him, but outside of Brett Hull, no other US player has close to the ppg he had throughout his career. He was electric, gifted play maker and goal scorer. He really wasn't good in his own zone, but come on it was the 80's none of these guys really were lol..he wasn't physical but feisty..he would get in a lot of scrums and not back down either, just not the guy to throw the big hit or take the body into the boards. He should have been greater than he was, his skillset put him in the top echelon for his era, but his lack of size and durability really hurt him in the final 3-4 years. He was a game changer but never got the attention some others did.

and never truly confirmed, Youngblood the movie had a lot of things "based" off of Patty LaFontaine, from his days of going through the CHL as a young American to the look of Rob Lowe...I read Lafontaine was the inspiration for the movie so who knows!

my favorite player to ever play the game, if he had the longevity he would be held in much higher regards than he currently is.

 

[The Panther]

In terms of skill, he was really elite. I mean, the guy had a 234-point season in the QMJHL, which is more than Guy Lafleur scored, and a 148-point season in the NHL. In fact, I'll say he was the most offensively gifted American-born player I've ever seen. Incredible vision and skill with the puck, and -- as anyone can see from 30 seconds of watching his highlight reels -- he was remarkably shifty and difficult to knock off the puck because of his lateral movement and balance.

As he came in right at the end of the Islanders' dynasty and mostly missed it, and as Buffalo (and NYR) weren't any good after about 1994, I feel like Lafontaine unfortunately rarely got to play with a team of skilled teammates and peers. We saw that brief window during 1991-92 and 1992-93 when he was absolutely on fire playing with Mogilny and Hawerchuk on the power-play.

So, he had that brief window where he was right at the top of the League, but otherwise I feel that his career was a bit unfortunate, in that he didn't play on good teams and didn't have the physical size to keep it going after the mid-90s (size fetish era). It didn't help when he was headhunted and concussed by bruisers.

La-la-la-la-Lafontaine!

 

[jj cale]

In terms of skill, he was really elite. I mean, the guy had a 234-point season in the QMJHL, which is more than Guy Lafleur scored, and a 148-point season in the NHL. In fact, I'll say he was the most offensively gifted American-born player I've ever seen. Incredible vision and skill with the puck, and -- as anyone can see from 30 seconds of watching his highlight reels -- he was remarkably shifty and difficult to knock off the puck because of his lateral movement and balance.

As he came in right at the end of the Islanders' dynasty and mostly missed it, and as Buffalo (and NYR) weren't any good after about 1994, I feel like Lafontaine unfortunately rarely got to play with a team of skilled teammates and peers. We saw that brief window during 1991-92 and 1992-93 when he was absolutely on fire playing with Mogilny and Hawerchuk on the power-play.

So, he had that brief window where he was right at the top of the League, but otherwise I feel that his career was a bit unfortunate, in that he didn't play on good teams and didn't have the physical size to keep it going after the mid-90s (size fetish era). It didn't help when he was headhunted and concussed by bruisers.

La-la-la-la-Lafontaine!

I've got to agree, I also think he was the most offensively gifted American born player I've ever witnessed.

A really tremendous player, dangerous as all get go, A sleek porsche out there

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

lafontaine was one of the most obviously talented players i've ever seen. what i mean is that he oozed skill and everything he did looked flashy. but on the other hand, for most of his career you looked at him and then you looked at yzerman and you asked yourself, why isn't lafontaine getting yzerman results? in terms of flat out eye-test offensive skill, those two were neck and neck as basically as good as it gets behind howe/orr/gretzky/mario.

but actually, i think the real difference wasn't size (the obvious culprit) but playmaking ability. outside of that amazing 1.5 year peak with mogilny and on that PP with hawerchuk and andreychuk, lafontaine didn't have that chicken poop into chicken salad gene that yzerman had, where he could carry a gerard gallant to 40 goals and finish in the top ten in assists no matter who his linemates were. fun fact: lafontaine's career high in assists is 95. his second highest total was 51, which he hit twice, in 1990 and 1996.

 

[The Panther]

lafontaine was one of the most obviously talented players i've ever seen. what i mean is that he oozed skill and everything he did looked flashy. but on the other hand, for most of his career you looked at him and then you looked at yzerman and you asked yourself, why isn't lafontaine getting yzerman results? in terms of flat out eye-test offensive skill, those two were neck and neck as basically as good as it gets behind howe/orr/gretzky/mario.

I like this comparison you raise, as I was going to say that Lafontaine at his best was very young Yzerman-like. Their skating and darting and stickhandling was very similar.

Thing is, "why isn't lafontaine getting yzerman results?" -- I mean, offensively, he kind of did get Yzerman results, didn't he? Now, Yzerman's first two seasons ('83 to '85) were more impressive than Lafontaine's first full season (1984-85), although that's likely in part because Patty joined a late-Dynasty Al Arbour-coached team where 19-year-olds weren't going to get prime PP-duty over Bossy and Trottier, whereas Yzerman was more so brought in as the guy they were to build from the ground up with. But anyway after that...

Lafontaine mid-'85 to mid-'96 = 870 PTS in 703 games (1.24 PPG)
Yzerman mid-'85 to mid-'96 = 1079 PTS in 782 games (1.38 PPG)

I mean, Yzerman "wins" to the tune of 11 points per 80-game season, but it's not a huge difference really. Then, just at the moment Yzerman's individual stats started to decline, his team suddenly became a powerhouse and he went on to win three Cups.

Lafontaine started on a team in decline (reaching its nadir just as he was peaking), then joined a middling team (Buffalo) and left just before their team success with Hasek (while getting multiple concussions), then ended up on the Rangers just as they were hitting rock bottom.

Don't get me wrong, Yzerman was the better player, but I'm not sure he was actually any better offensively. Sometimes, situations make much of the difference.

Another nice thing about Lafontaine -- one of the truly nice, classy guys in the sport!

 

[Howie Hodge]

Was in his prime when the concussions occurred, 28. Had one more 91 point season at 30.

So conservatively estimate he would have put up an average of 45 goals and 60 assists at ages 28 and 29.

I think it's fair to estimate he would probably have averaged at least 30 goals and 40 assists at ages 31, 32, and 33.

That would have put his career totals at around 640 goals and 785 assists for 1,425 career points if he retired at 33.

He may have played more seasons, we don't know, and we don't know what his production would have been. He may have slowed down at 32.

Like Orr and Lemieux, we'll only be able to speculate where good health would have placed him all time, scoring wise.

 

[sr edler]

fun fact: lafontaine's career high in assists is 95. his second highest total was 51, which he hit twice, in 1990 and 1996.

That's around Bure playmaking ability.

He did have 47 in 57 games in 91–92 though, pacing for 68 assists and 134 points.

 

[Sentinel]

Yzerman was a better playmaker and certainly a better two-way player.

That said, Lafontaine was a marvel and one of the biggest casualties of DPE.

 

[tony d]

He was very talented, one of the better players during his era. In the high scoring yr. of 1992-1993 he finished 2nd in scoring. To bad injuries derailed him so much. Got to think had he played until 36 or 37 and was healthy he might have flirted with 14 or 1500 points.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That's around Bure playmaking ability.

He did have 47 in 57 games in 91–92 though, pacing for 68 assists and 134 points.

that’s kind of my point though—surrounded by other geniuses lafontaine can pile on assists like he’s dionne. but that’s the difference btw him and yzerman. 1988 to 1994, yzerman puts up big assists with anyone.

 

[VaporTrail]

One of my favorite all time players...fast, shifty, play maker with great hands

 

[ted2019]

Was in his prime when the concussions occurred, 28. Had one more 91 point season at 30.

So conservatively estimate he would have put up an average of 45 goals and 60 assists at ages 28 and 29.

I think it's fair to estimate he would probably have averaged at least 30 goals and 40 assists at ages 31, 32, and 33.

That would have put his career totals at around 640 goals and 785 assists for 1,425 career points if he retired at 33.

He may have played more seasons, we don't know, and we don't know what his production would have been. He may have slowed down at 32.

Like Orr and Lemieux, we'll only be able to speculate where good health would have placed him all time, scoring wise.

It's difficult to say on how many points and such he would've had if he stayed healthy. He could've declined and fell off a cliff and been out of the league by he was 32 years old.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Did anyone watch the "Easter Epic" live (staying up until 2am?) I heard LaFontaine also authored or co-authored a book called Companions in Courage. I wonder if it is any good.

 

[The Panther]

Did anyone watch the "Easter Epic" live (staying up until 2am?) I heard LaFontaine also authored or co-authored a book called Companions in Courage. I wonder if it is any good.

Yes, I did. I was barely 11 then, and CBC sent Bob Cole to call it as it was the only game 7 in round one. I think my Dad and I started watching around early in the third period or something, and I stayed awake to see the whole thing to the end. My Dad fell asleep several times, but I think he was awake for the Lafontaine goal...

 

[billybudd]

I've got to agree, I also think he was the most offensively gifted American born player I've ever witnessed.

With respect to Modano, this is definitely a two-horse race between Lafontaine and Pat Kane (I would go with Lafontaine, from memory).

 

[jj cale]

With respect to Modano, this is definitely a two-horse race between Lafontaine and Pat Kane (I would go with Lafontaine, from memory).

You're right and Kane was the other guy in my mind when I posted that, it was between him and Lafontaine but in the end after thinking about it I had to go with him, wouldn't argue anyone thinking Kane is the right choice though.

There is one other guy to me that makes it a three horse race though and I think it's a scandal that he seems to be so underrated and somewhat forgotten around here and that man is Brian Leetch. I know he is not a forward but he is one of the most offensively gifted defensemen I have ever seen and I have been watching hockey since the mid 70's. When people talk about all time greats and best d-men of the last whatever years he seems to rarely be mentioned and I can never figure out why, the guy was so freakin good with the puck, his skating,stickhandling, ability to break defenses down, passing, hockey sense offensively.....................they were all elite. There is so much recency bias on this site it's sad, whoever is playing now and is the flavour of the month seems to get the nod over guys from the past, not all the time but quite a bit. I mean, Karlsson is all the rage these days, some talk about him as the best offensive d-man since Orr but to me there is nothing he can do that Leetch couldn't and didn't, so many posters here didn't even see that guy play, he was f***ing dangerous as the devil.

I honestly can't think of many guys I would put above him as far as offensive ability for d-men go. Even before Patty lafontaine he was the first American player in international tournaments when playing Canada that I was afraid of and said to myself...."shit, we gotta figure out how to stop that guy or he is gonna hurt us and put us in danger of losing to them" He was the first american player who ever made me seriously worry when playing them.

Thinking about all the great offensive d-man over all these years I think I can honestly say only Paul Coffey could I put ahead of him and even then I would have liked to have seen what Leetch could have done with the talent Coffey had around him in edmonton and Pittsburgh, i think he may have been able to match Coffeys numbers. Orr obviously is a cut above all but he was really before my time, I just missed watching him in his prime.

Leetch man,wow, scary guy, I just gotta put him in the conversation.

 

[authentic]

He was quite the player, comparable to Patrick Kane at his peak and prime.

 

[The Panther]

Just talking about forwards, I agree that Lafontaine and Kane are probably tops in talent/ability. But would we say that Modano had the best career? I mean, if you're looking at career value and so on?

 

[jj cale]

Just talking about forwards, I agree that Lafontaine and Kane are probably tops in talent/ability. But would we say that Modano had the best career? I mean, if you're looking at career value and so on?

To me Chelios had the best career and is the best American player of all time to date.

Sorry, read your post too fast and didn't see you were talking strictly about forwards. I think by the time his career ends Kane will have overtaken Modano for best American career at forward, heck, he will have a good shot at best career for an American period.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Yes, I did. I was barely 11 then, and CBC sent Bob Cole to call it as it was the only game 7 in round one. I think my Dad and I started watching around early in the third period or something, and I stayed awake to see the whole thing to the end. My Dad fell asleep several times, but I think he was awake for the Lafontaine goal...

So cool/heartwarming to read Awesome stuff Panther!!!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

With respect to Modano, this is definitely a two-horse race between Lafontaine and Pat Kane (I would go with Lafontaine, from memory).

easily those two, plus leetch as also mentioned above. modano had the same flash as those guys but he didn’t have that level of offensive... maybe vision is the best word?

i guess if you count brett hull you could count him too. not well rounded at all but next level offensive brain on him.

 

[billybudd]

I loved Leetch. Oversight on my part for not mentioning him. Thanks guys.